Discussing Age 65 WITHOUT arguing the merits

[Flopgut]

Most contracts are evolving to a point there they only say "retirement age" not a specific number. Anything that goes at the age specific issue is completely rejected by my NC. The older you get the more age discrimination works in your favor I guess. Even if that means old people get to direct equal age discrimination onto the young, seems to not matter. If you're under 40 you've no provision for age discrimination claims, which brings me to another two points. One: the best way to get at what your working on is to go after the strategy set against you. For instance, if the fact that you are under 60 is the only enabler that allows another pilot to fly then you been given additional responsibility with no extra pay OR authority. See if you can go after that. Second, as bad as this is we need to try to make sure it doesn't get worse. Many pilots are retiring leaving those who are working past 60 of the almost single minded, universal opinion they should be able to work even longer. Work now to make sure 65 doesn't become 70. As I mentioned before, none of these guys have a plan. And the fact that you don't hear anything about how the recent economy has trashed their investment accounts should speak volumes. We're still two years away from the need registering with these guys because they're still fat and glowing from this recent bump.

Experienced pilot is an actual reg now. So just like FEs, FOs and regular CAs have different pay criteria the newly regulated position should have a separate pay scale.

And we all need to start asking these guys what their money situation is. They made it our business and we shouldn't shy away from asking them how they are saving/spending. I think we would all be happy to tell them what each of us and our families are not doing with the money we don't get because they are working. Right?

 

[Flopgut]

FWIW, A little extra for anyone reading:

As a junior ALPA member, does anyone feel any less responsible for senior members lost, damaged, or stolen retirement plan/funds? 60 went to 65. That's all; It didn't really change anything. If this profession gets burned again it's not like senior guys aren't going to not pull the same stunt. There are zero assurances and zero discussion on ways to change that. It would be nice if along with a new retirement reality the senior made an adjustment to seniority progression. There are steps that could be taken to absolve the now crisis reality of those of us who can afford to re-fund retirements the least, becoming the ones who get hurt the most. But rest assured, senior pilots will take no fewer steps than it takes to stuff a knife in their junior co-workers back.

That's reality going forward. So we can't really waste time trying to get back at them in our CBAs. We're going to have to affect a much grander revenge upon them. We're going to have to help them. All we can do is try to get the best deal we can for all members and hope everything doesn't get worse. Because if it does, the baby boomer generation will steal from us again. And you can see how willing they are to help their adjacent generations right now (junior can't move up, old guys couldn't come back) so don't count on anything from them.

Look to opportunities that offer a comprehensive improvement for all of us.

 

[Fubijaakr]

If you remove the early retirement penalty in contracts, that would encourage more people to get out prior to age 65. Our contract hits you for 7% per year you early out. That alone encourges guys to stay longer.

 

[Flopgut]

If you remove the early retirement penalty in contracts, that would encourage more people to get out prior to age 65. Our contract hits you for 7% per year you early out. That alone encourges guys to stay longer.

Andy: This is a fair minded, legitimate post by a guy I ususally disagrees with me (emphatically).

How do we remove early out penalty?

If you want to have a decent discussion this thread has a possibities.