Different jobs and pilot skills requirements

[Cat Driver]

Just to get some discussion going here I would like to offer my thoughts on the different flying jobs that I have done in aviation and the skills levels needed to safely work in these sectors of aviation.

For hands and feet aircraft handling skills in order of difficulty the following are my opinions on this subject.

Most demanding are..

(1) Aerial application, fixed wing and rotary wing.

(2) Bush flying

(3) Aerial Fire Suppression.

(4) Courrier flying, ( because of the pressure to fly regardless of the weather.)

The most boring and lowest on the flying skills level of course is Airline. And almost as boring was Coroporate, but you do get to fly the best equipment money can buy.

Now I fully expect some of you to have at me and disagree so go for it.

By the way there is one more kind of flying that requires very high skills and is very tireing due to the high turn around from pickup to drop senario and difficult terrain conditions and that is Heli Logging.

Cat Driver

 

[Goose Egg]

No disagreements on the ordering of difficulty, at least with stick and rudder skills. I haven't ever done any of that kind of flying, so I couldn't really say.

Sort of interesting, though, that the most "boring" and "lowest flying skill" are also the ones with the highest potential for earnings. Wonder why that is.

-Goose

 

[Cat Driver]

" Sort of interesting, though, that the most "boring" and "lowest flying skill" are also the ones with the highest potential for earnings. Wonder why that is. "

It is because of several factors such as that type of flying is very structured and demands crew continuity in SOPS for safe operation of the flight, also the flying is very benign in the changing of attitudes to ensure passenger comfort. And the high pay is directly connected to the revenue generated by hundreds of paying passengers that these aircraft can carry.

Another factor in the boredom index is the automation of modern airliners....anyone of you can fly a long haul tonight on your computer, just choose your favourite airliner such an Airbus or a Boeing and program your flight simulator to fly you from Seattle to London and then sit in your chair and watch it fly on your screen...then about nine hours from now get back to me after it has arrived in London and let me know how excited you are.

Cat Driver

 

[Grumman guy]

swap 3 for 1,1 for 2 and 2 for 3 and thats more like it.

 

[mar]

Past peak

I've often thought (in terms of my best stick and rudder) that I was at the top of my game when I was flying the Metroliner.

It's not a hard airplane to fly, but it's a hard airplane to fly *well*. It just punishes any mistake or sloppiness.

But for the weekend warriors, if you want to wake up your feet I'd recommend a tailwheel checkout and a good aerobatics course. Lots to learn there if you've never done it.

Cool thread. I look forward to more replys.

 

[coolyokeluke]

Some people say "____ pilots are the best because they have to do ____". I don't necessarily disagree with their estimate of a given task's difficulty. However I've always said you get good at what you practice at, what you get a lot of repetition at. Navy carrier pilots probably have the most challenging landings off the top of my head. I would think aerial firefighting would require top-notch skills. I've never flown a helicopter but I have heard that's multitasking at its best. Good glider pilots some of the best at "reading" weather. I could see being a test pilot in the early days being very challenging.

 

[VNugget]

Just for the sake of discussion... (Well OK, I'm actually flat out asking)

How does someone new to the game get into this type of flying? From what I've seen posted here and on some other aviation forums (mainly by Avbug) it would be darn near impossible. Aerial firefighting requires extensive ag time, and ag flying, well, also requires extensive ag time. And operators in Alaska are gonna want people who learned to fly there.

I want to get into the world of challenging, varied, stick-and-rudder flying like that, and it would be nice to get some tips on getting started in that direction. How do I hone my skills and get the exposure geared for that? It seems the only way to do that is to get that kind of job, and that's a catch-22, especially today, since the number of jobs of that type is shrinking and there are plenty of people that already have that experience to fill them.

I just got a tailwheel endorsement, and will learn acro this summer. I'm also hopefully looking at learning formation. I also have a slight chance of teaching at a very reputable tailwheel school when I get my commercial, so I have some sort of a foothold in the right direction, but I'm still pretty lost and any words of advice would be appreciated.

Or maybe I'm just a naive romantic who is reading too much Ernest Gann and Duke Elegant and Avbug and Cat Driver and is going to too many airshows and antique fly-ins, and should just shut up and start studying a RJ manual, who knows.

 

[avbug]

I couldn't begin to guess which is more difficult, (and I don't disagree with Catdriver on his selection and order), but for the pure guilty selfish pleasure of enjoyment, I think a cub is pretty darn hard to beat.

I would guess overall the list is subjective to the individual.

I tend to transition back and forth between several radically different types of flying, frequently. What I find to be the case is that just about the time the airplane starts feeling like a second skin again, and the mission second nature, I get swapped to something else and I'm back to feeling like fish out of water once more.

Probably the two most startling transitions in fixed wing that I can remember were climbing into a conventional gear ag airplane from a high performance jet, after being out of an ag airplane for nearly a decade...and getting into a Cessna 210 in the dark one morning after flying only large airplanes for the previous six months. It's all relative, but in both cases I realized I'd probably made a mistake about the time the wheels left the ground, and commenced a crash course in re-teaching myself to fly. I don't recommend that.

 

[Snakum]

I disagree. I think my job, Corporate Rental Skyhawk Captain, is way harder than Ag flying. H@ll ... anyone with a student certificate can fly in a straight line over bubba's corn field. Sheeeeeeeeeeeeeeyaaaaaat.


Thick Mangey Tongs
(Corporate Rental Skyhawk Captain for Life)
D)

 

[uwochris]

I think my job is pretty fun: aerial photography. I'm not sure where that would fit into your list, but I do find it pretty challenging. I fly as low as 500 ft with the window open. I have one hand on the yoke, and the other on a 8-10 lb camera that I have to hold onto without any support. It took a while for me to get used to it, and even still now I find it very challenging to maintain complete situational awareness without losing concentration on the photography. It's not uncommon for me to be flying in and around busy airspace, restricted airspace (flying near parachuters can be a little bit frantic ), and flying around towers (all legal of course!). We navigate with road maps and a handheld GPS.

Just last week I did a flight in downtown Toronto at 1000 ft. The hardest part was finding the appartment buildings to photograph (the only information I had was the color and general shape). I have done some flying inside Toronto Pearson' control zone as well. It's not fun, but it certainly keeps you on your feet!

Hopefully, these skills will come in handy down the road. I'd love to try aerial fire fighting or surveying one day too.

 

[Goose Egg]

(On airline and corporate flying) It is because of several factors such as that type of flying is very structured and demands crew continuity in SOPS for safe operation of the flight, also the flying is very benign in the changing of attitudes to ensure passenger comfort. And the high pay is directly connected to the revenue generated by hundreds of paying passengers that these aircraft can carry.

Hmm. That doesn't sound like it tolerates a low skill level to me.

-Goose

 

[Grumman guy]

Oh, it does!

 

[Grumman guy]

Aerial firefighting requires just as much stick and rudder abilities as ag flying but the airtanker environment in itself is somthing unparalleled anywhere in peacetime aviation.

 

[Cat Driver]

Goose Egg :

" For hands and feet aircraft handling skills in order of difficulty the following are my opinions on this subject."

Please read the question above that I started this thread with.

The precentage of time in flight in an airliner when the pilots are actually using their hands and feet to fly are very short, especially their feet in an in an Airbus.

The skills required to fly an airliner are far different than the jobs that I was relating to.

So enough of Big Jets and back to how much hands and feet skills are needed to fly any aircraft.

 

[Big Duke Six]

Apples and Oranges

The thread began as ranking the highest Stick and Rudder skills required for each type of flying. I wouldn't argue with Cat Driver's rankings either, from what I've read about ag flying and firefighting.

The thing is, as Avbug pointed out, that it's one thing to say something is easy until you try to switch back and forth between airplanes. That little experiment illustrates the point, which is that all types of flying are challenging for different reasons. If airline flying is so easy, nobody who makes it to that point would ever wash out of initial training. I'm just using that as an example of course, because there is no arguing that airline flying is at times fairly boring, but also has its moments. And, those moments are fairly critical. I'm not even talking about emergencies, I'm talking about routine things and situations where a false move would really screw things up in a hurry.

For pure all-around flying skills in a demanding environment, I think Metroliner freight dogs are tops. Maybe Navajo jockeys too, because of the added work the piston engines require. The added speed of the Metro adds it's own demands too.

But I've never bombed a fire either.