DFW still wants SWA to come over

FlyBoeingJets

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D/FW Airport poll: Passengers want Southwest to fly out of D/FW
Friday July 8, 12:31 pm ET



Dallas/Fort Worth International Airport on Friday fired another round in its all-out war with Southwest Airlines Co., which wants to open Dallas Love Field to long-haul service that would directly compete with D/FW Airport.

D/FW Airport announced it is launching this weekend an advertising campaign stressing that D/FW and Dallas-based Southwest "can work together to strengthen the North Texas economy and add to the 268,000 jobs tied to flight activity at D/FW."

In months of volleys between the two, D/FW Airport has systematically argued that Southwest (NYSE: LUV - News) should move its operations from Love to D/FW Airport. Southwest -- notorious for remaining one of the nation's few profitable airlines by carefully choosing the airports it flies from -- has argued D/FW isn't attractive for a low-fare carrier whose operation is built carefully around the quick turnaround of its aircraft.

D/FW says it will launch a print advertising campaign this weekend to inform the public about what it described as the positive impact a strong relationship between Southwest Airlines and D/FW can have on the North Texas economy.

"According to the latest economic survey conducted by the Texas Department of Transportation, D/FW International Airport generates more than $14 billion in economic activity every year, and supports more than 268,000 jobs that pay more than $6 billion in wages," according to Joseph Lopano, executive vice president of marketing and terminal management at D/FW in a release from the airport.

"These are real jobs and real people that make our economy and neighborhoods stronger with the success of D/FW," added Lopano. "Southwest Airlines can also be profitable at D/FW and add billions of dollars to this economy by building on the success of D/FW and having our airport as a strong partner. We've said in the past we will even build them their own terminal, and we are still offering free rent and other financial incentives valued at over $22 million to come to D/FW."

The airport also announced the results of a passenger poll it took between July 2 and July 5.

The airport said of the 2,714 passengers who were asked "Would you like to see Southwest Airlines fly out of D/FW Airport?" 1,995 had an opinion, and of those, 62 percent said yes, and 11 percent said responded "no."

The airport also said a Lehman Brothers report that it commissioned confirms Southwest could be profitable at D/FW and add $500 million in revenue.

"We believe the combination of facilities availability, market appeal, the exit of a secondary competitor and Southwest's status as one of two hometown airlines in Dallas make the opportunity too compelling to ignore," the Lehman report concluded. Also on Friday, D/FW hired a tow plane to carry a message banner over the runways of Love Field, the home of Southwest Airlines. The banner read "Travelers Want Southwest at D/FW NOW!" The plane also carried the message over Southwest's corporate headquarters, which are adjacent to Love Field, as well as over downtown Dallas, into North and South Dallas and over Plano.
 

On Your Six

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Love Field is so much more convenient for many people and less crowded than DFW - that entire notion is laughable. I bet DFW interviewed a bunch of residents right next door to DFW. It's safe to say that the DFW people are gettin' nervous - and THEY SHOULD. AA and DFW are dinosaurs on the slow track to extinction....
 

enigma

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FlyBoeingJets said:
D/FW Airport poll: Passengers want Southwest to fly out of D/FW
Friday July 8, 12:31 pm ET




The airport also announced the results of a passenger poll it took between July 2 and July 5.

The airport said of the 2,714 passengers who were asked "Would you like to see Southwest Airlines fly out of D/FW Airport?" 1,995 had an opinion, and of those, 62 percent said yes, and 11 percent said responded "no."

The airport also said a Lehman Brothers report that it commissioned confirms Southwest could be profitable at D/FW and add $500 million in revenue.

"We believe the combination of facilities availability, market appeal, the exit of a secondary competitor and Southwest's status as one of two hometown airlines in Dallas make the opportunity too compelling to ignore," the Lehman report concluded. Also on Friday, D/FW hired a tow plane to carry a message banner over the runways of Love Field, the home of Southwest Airlines. The banner read "Travelers Want Southwest at D/FW NOW!" The plane also carried the message over Southwest's corporate headquarters, which are adjacent to Love Field, as well as over downtown Dallas, into North and South Dallas and over Plano.
Two quick points. I'll bet that pax polled at DFW would like SWA to fly DFW, that's a straw man.

and, anything the Lehman brothers have to do with is NOT good for pilots. Been there.

enigma
 

aa73

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On Your Six said:
AA and DFW are dinosaurs on the slow track to extinction....
I highly doubt that either will be extinct... Love Field cannot take int'l flights, and has a limited domestic capacity, so DFW ain't going anywhere. As far as AA goes, if they are on the verge of extinction, I gues you can write off DAL, NWA, UAL, and CAL right away since AA is the financially best performing legacy airline right now.

I do agree that the Wright amendment is oudated and anti competitive, and will most likely be axed - SWA makes a good point.
 

FlyBoeingJets

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On Your Six said:
Love Field is so much more convenient for many people and less crowded than DFW - that entire notion is laughable. I bet DFW interviewed a bunch of residents right next door to DFW. It's safe to say that the DFW people are gettin' nervous - and THEY SHOULD. AA and DFW are dinosaurs on the slow track to extinction....
I think DFW is a powerful entity with the resources (enough cash to conduct a poll and commission a Lehman brothers report) and friends to get what they want. AA is firmly on a path toward profitability and dominates Dallas.

Southwest needs to keep Love field competitive to stay in the game long term.
 

luv2fly

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"DFW still wants SWA to come over "

They can want in one hand and sh!te in the other and see which one fills up faster! It ain't gonna happen.
 

debo007

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DFW Is horrible for delays. I have spent more taxi time there than anywhere I flew on a daily basis. SWA will never go for it. They choose Midway, Love, and Hobby for a reason.
 

Tomct

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;) I agree, I have spent many hours out there in the money line just waiting to take off! Definately would hurt the way SWA does business. They would not be able to do any more 20 min. turns!! I don't see them leaving LUV for any reason because it would just hurt their performance numbers!
 

luv2fly

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By: Mike Boyd
Hot Flash - July 11, 2005

More Fancy Dancin' From
DFW International Airport

They can't really be paying for consultants create this stuff.

We're talking about the klutzy PR campaign being put on by DFW International Airport to get Southwest to move over from Love Field.

First, they came out with an "independent" study the "findings" and delivery of which looked like a bad plot for a Harry Potter movie, and just about as consistent with reality.

Last week, the fantasy continued. With a straight face, they announced the results of a poll taken to get the public's opinion whether they want Southwest service at DFW.

The question, according to the media, plumbed deep into the subject matter, asking,

"Would you like to see Southwest Airlines fly out of DFW Airport?"

Holy Gallup, Batman! A whopping 85% said yes! (Well, not actually, but that's the way it was spun to the media.)

For those of us in the air service development business, this really is an incredible bit of information, and it raises what may be a security-related issue for the Metroplex: Where were the other 15% of the population? Have they been spirited away by evil terrorists? Kidnapped? Held up in North Dakota against their will?

Well actually, the poll wasn't conducted in the entire Metroplex, but only among passengers at, you guessed it, DFW airport.

But, still, the results are amazing. DFW asked passengers if they would like service from an airline offering low fares, excellent service, and outstanding reliability, and 15% of the population said no?

Actually, only 69% said yes. The 85% figure resulted from DFW removing the respondents who answered "Don't Know." Like with DFW's silly "study" from a few weeks ago, this looks painfully like more spin than substance.

In any event, asking the question at all was dumb, and insulting to the public. DFW posed a simplistic question, the answer to which is obvious, and then postured it all like they're Madame Curie, and they've just discovered radium.

The whole intent is to make Southwest look like they're not giving the public what it wants. Furthermore, it's a stretch to posture this response as being the public "urging" Southwest to come to DFW.

Are Billboards Next? Media reports indicated also that DFW International, in its quest to get Southwest service, has resorted to the type of amateur theatrics usually expected from the Chamber of Commerce at East Upchuck, Iowa. Aside from silly veneer "studies" and public opinion polls, DFW even hired a small airplane to drag a banner over Love Field with the message, "Travelers Want Southwest at DFW NOW!" Sort of like what liquor companies used to do at college football games, having a Cessna 172 pulling signs hyping cheap hooch... "Royal Canadian, Now $6.98 A Quart!"

Can't wait to see what's next from DFW. No telling what their PR company might think up next. Gee, how 'bout a something really innovative? Got it! Let's send a bottle of, say, Wild Turkey, to Herb Kelleher, dressed up to look like Clint Eastwood as Dirty Harry, brandishing a .357, with the tag line, "Go Ahead, Make My Airport."

Or, maybe a billboard on Mockingbird, right at the crowded, congested entrance to Love Field. It'll depict two adorable small children, crying uncontrollably, with the tag line, "Daddy'd be home by now if nasty old Southwest rented 22 gates at DFW, moved its headquarters there, transferred a couple hundred thousand square feet of maintenance space, and spent tens of millions of dollars doing it. Herb Kelleher, you don't care about my Daddy!"

Or, something really, well, aggressively tacky, as one small East Coast airport did, sending a giant post card accusing Southwest of being the Grinch that Stole Christmas for not coming to town. It's the type of amateur, trite schtick that's been used for years by Chambers of Commerce at speed-trap towns all across America, and it's not much different than the type of stuff DFW's been doing.

That's the unfortunate part. Here we have DFW International, one of the nation's most efficient and important airports, a major international crossroads, and the future #2 gateway to China and Asia, groveling around like some small rural berg begging Southwest to come to their airport.
 

enigma

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luv2fly said:
By: Mike Boyd
Hot Flash - July 11, 2005

More Fancy Dancin' From
DFW International Airport



That's the unfortunate part. Here we have DFW International, one of the nation's most efficient and important airports, a major international crossroads, and the future #2 gateway to China and Asia, groveling around like some small rural berg begging Southwest to come to their airport.
Boyd had me..........right up to the point where he called DFW "one of the nation's most efficient" airports! Maybe it is, but it don't seem like it from my perspective. Maybe it could be efficient if the ATC ground control philosophy changed, or if they just transported Ohare ground control over to DFW:D

If DFW were truly efficient, SWA (IMHO) would already be there.

enigma
 

King Air Evac

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I think a more valid survey would be one taken at Love. "Would you rather fly from DFW?"

I think the responses would a lot more valid. Of course, I don't think the folks at DFW could get the numbers to slant the way they want them.
 

Buckaroo

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Ain't gonna happen. No way, no how.

The WA will be repealed.

Mark my words
 

DenverDude2002

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They should just do away with the Wright amendment, this isnt the 60's, its a free monopoly now. If DFW cant cut it whos fault is that.
 

Dangerkitty

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I find it funny that most people who complain about the Wright Amendment have no clue how it started nor do they know Southwest's role in it.

A deal is a deal
Jim Wright
Special to the Star-Telegram, July 3, 2005

After spending 35 years in Congress, I long ago lost count of the number of sundry amendments I offered to various bills. Surely more than 100 of them became law. But these days, whenever people in Texas ask me to explain "the Wright Amendment," I know the one they mean.

That law was a 1979 effort to keep faith with the people of Fort Worth and Dallas, whose cities had acted in unison to build -- with the help of some $96 million from the federal government -- a truly world-class airport.

Our government had granted that money and its official sanction on the clearly stated condition that both cities pass legal ordinances permanently closing Dallas Love Field and Fort Worth's Meacham Field and Greater Southwest International Airport to all commercial passenger traffic.

Both city councils had done precisely that. Wanting something far better, safer, more modern and more serviceable for everyone in the region, they formally shut down the two old nearby airports to all but private flights.

Greater Southwest, an earlier attempt to popularize a midway airport for the two cities, would be subsumed as a sort of southerly appendage to the new Dallas/Fort Worth Airport, and it of course would no longer independently originate any commercial passenger flights.

The Federal Aviation Administration correctly foresaw the growth of long-distance and international travel, requiring larger and larger aircraft with longer radius-of-maneuver requirements that would create dangerously overlapping takeoff and landing patterns if both D/FW and Love were initializing passenger flights in large aircraft.

Concerned for safety and fearful of aerial traffic jams, the FAA demanded wider separation than the close physical proximity of Love and D/FW runways.

FAA spokesmen insisted, before signing off on the ambitious development plans for D/FW, that commercial passenger service at Love, Meacham and Greater Southwest be terminated altogether.

Those conditions having been met by the closing of the two old commercial airports, bonds were sold, guaranteeing their purchasers -- in writing, on the good faith and credit of the two cities -- that there would be no commercial passenger flights at Love, Greater Southwest or Meacham.

In 1974, residents of our two largest cities and other nearby towns celebrated the grand opening of D/FW Airport. It was a triumph of reason over greed, we told one another. It proved that we'd outgrown our childish feuds and finally buried our hatchets -- elsewhere than in one another's skulls.

Progressive leadership in both towns hailed the dawn of cooperation to drive away the long night of feuding. That old rivalry had fed for more than a century on a colorful if flinty-hearted past.

In the days when wagon trains were bringing settlers westward, Dallas merchants would regale westbound migrants with lurid tales of mortal danger and/or lethal boredom that lay in wait to devour them if they ventured as far as Fort Worth. They'd be scalped by Indians, eaten alive by wild animals or condemned to terminal stagnation.

Fort Worth, aside from being dangerous, was described as already dead itself -- so sleepy, according to one warning, that a panther had been seen dozing languidly in the middle of a downtown street.

To counter this verbal roadblock, Fort Worth organized teams of outriders to intercept the wagon trains east of Dallas and escort them to Fort Worth by a circuitous route that skirted any sight of the rival village.

Both towns whetted their competitive skills and reveled overly long in the two-way surfeit of one-upmanship.

When Dallas in 1936 hosted a yearlong exposition in honor of the Texas Centennial, Fort Worth countered with a gaudy Frontier Exposition of its own.

"Come to Dallas for culture," Fort Worth sloganeered, "but come to Fort Worth for fun."

An earlier attempt to operate a mutual airport had faltered in the late 1940s and early '50s. Runways had been located meticulously halfway between Fort Worth's Texas Hotel corner and the Adolphus Hotel corner in Dallas. Then Dallas discovered that the terminal building would face west from the centerline toward Fort Worth, and the deal was off!

Legend says that Fort Worth's No. 1 booster, publishing icon Amon G. Carter, carried his lunch in a paper sack when going to Dallas to avoid patronizing any Dallas eatery. And Dallas' merchant prince, Stanley Marcus, refused to order merchandise from any company whose salesman had flown into the midway airport, known variously as "Greater Southwest Regional Airport" and "Amon Carter Field."

But in 1974, we all mutually rejoiced that we were, at last, singing from the same hymn book and working together!

In this euphoric spirit, things rested -- until the intercession of a state agency known as the Texas Aeronautics Commission. That now-defunct commission, on being petitioned by Southwest Airlines, ordered Dallas to reopen Love Field for use by Southwest, which then was headed by Lamar Muse.

The state commission's edict had to be obeyed by the cited city, but it had no jurisdiction outside Texas.

If Southwest had wanted to establish out-of-state schedules, it could have done so by flying from D/FW, just as all the other airlines were doing. At the time, however, Southwest was principally interested in launching flights linking Dallas, Houston and San Antonio.

Meanwhile, freed from certain landing fees that helped pay off the D/FW bonds, Southwest adopted "no-frill" service, advertised low rates and began to flourish. Its owners began to dream of interstate flights.

All its Love Field destinations were in Texas. Invited to use D/FW, the management expressed little interest.

Then came 1978. A movement -- quietly supported by the economically dominant airlines and a group of laissez-faire economists -- to deregulate U.S. aviation was gathering steam.

From the birth of the federally subsidized industry, scheduled passenger flights and fares had been approved and closely monitored in the interest of the flying public by the Civil Aeronautics Board, just as safety matters were monitored by the FAA. The CAB saw to it that all markets were served, that fares were reasonable and that no airline was allowed to monopolize service.

President Carter, somewhat surprisingly, endorsed the concept of deregulation. A bill to effectively abolish the CAB's work swept through the House. Suddenly, prevailing aviation laws would expire, and we'd simply let any airline fly from and to wherever it wished and charge whatever fares it might choose.

Civic leaders, frequent travelers, mayors and city council members from Fort Worth and Dallas saw this as a potential danger to D/FW's contractual agreements. If any company could fly anywhere it wanted out of a reopened Love Field, this could easily renew all the old cutthroat battles that the international airport had been created to settle.

In 1979, this group of concerned citizens came to me for help.

My original amendment, the one that initially passed the House, would have prohibited any interstate commercial passenger flights to or from any airport within a 20-mile radius of D/FW. It was enthusiastically supported by the official leadership of Fort Worth and Dallas.

It set off, however, a massive lobbying effort in the Senate, which rejected the amendment as written and called for a conference committee to resolve differences.

It was at this point that my office participated in discussions with every party at interest, seeking a solution that everyone would recognize as fair. Through these negotiations, we ultimately reached an agreement that all parties embraced.

It allowed Love Field to serve interstate traffic limited to turnaround service between Love and the contiguous states: Louisiana, Arkansas, Oklahoma and New Mexico. This restriction applied equally to Southwest and all airlines.

Southwest was not singled out in any way.

Herb Kelleher -- founder, legal counsel and longtime leader of Southwest -- expressed satisfaction. He'd won a significant victory. And he was welcome, even overtly encouraged, to expand into other states with longer-range flights into and out of D/FW Airport.

Southwest is still welcome there. That Southwest has chosen not to accept the invitation has been entirely of its own volition.

That's about all there is to the "Wright Amendment." This compromise was designed to be in perpetuity, to settle once and for all this very divisive issue.

Although I was not personally involved in all of the negotiations with the parties, which included the Dallas and Fort Worth city councils, affected airlines and federal agency representatives, my office was represented in all of them.

It was well understood by each and every party, including Southwest Airlines, that this was an agreement that was to put this issue to rest once and for all, that all parties would abide by it and that none would attempt to unravel it.

At least, this was my understanding. My friend Herb Kelleher remembers it somewhat differently.

Herb, in my view, is a thoroughly honorable person. Who is to say that I am right and he is wrong?

I have no hostility toward Southwest. It offers splendid services -- well-run, on time, reasonably priced.

If its investors want to inaugurate long, cross-country flights from our market, that's fine with me. Just let them fly, like all the others, out of and into the airport that our region's taxpayers, and others, built for that precise purpose. Let them charge whatever fares they wish, be just as competitive as they can.
 

Dangerkitty

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Part II

But we shouldn't need to pay for two international airports, or have to compromise regional passenger safety by overlapping takeoff and landing patterns.

Besides, a deal is a deal. And this one was a good deal.

A guy named Jim Wright has no proprietary ownership of this agreement. It was a compromise hammered out by a lot of people. Equally fair to everyone, it treats all airline carriers alike.

I don't have a current figure on just how much has been invested in D/FW Airport, but I'll assure you of this: It's well into the billions. And I can't tell you how exactly much it has brought to the economies of our neighboring counties, but this is certain: It's in the multiple billions!

Every resident of North Texas has a big investment in D/FW Airport and both a financial and civic interest in its future.

Sometimes I wish I were as wise as Solomon. Then maybe I'd know how to make everybody happy with our human efforts to compromise and get along. Unfortunately, Solomon was not on the faculty at Weatherford College or the University of Texas when I was a student at those institutions.

Who knows? Even if I had enrolled in his course, I might have flunked it.
 

FlyBoeingJets

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Thanks Danger kitty.

Your Jim Wright article further illustrates how ridiculous the Wright Amendment is. I've seen it on another thread and the more I read it the more false the assumptions appear. From the "Danger" of operating two airports to the economic future of North Texas, the arguments are hollow. Jim Wright should be praised for brokering a difficult deal to get bond holders and the government to build DFW, but the "deal" has been honored and is now fullfilled. Anyone who thinks DFW doesn't have enough money should remember DFW is offering $22 million and a new terminal to SWA. They have cash and are used to burning it. They will continue to do so until given some competition.

Some have even said AA needs the help to "recover". AA is about to turn a profit this quarter and needs no help. Something UAL and DAL can't do this year.
 
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Dangerkitty

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FlyBoeingJets said:
Thanks Danger kitty.

Your Jim Wright article further illustrates how ridiculous the Wright Amendment is. I've seen it on another thread and the more I read it the more false the assumptions appear. From the "Danger" of operating two airports to the economic future of North Texas, the arguments are hollow. Jim Wright should be praised for brokering a difficult deal to get bond holders and the government to build DFW, but the "deal" has been honored and is now fullfilled. Anyone who thinks DFW doesn't have enough money should remember DFW is offering $22 million and a new terminal to SWA. They have cash and are used to burning it. They will continue to do so until given some competition.

Some have even said AA needs the help to "recover". AA is about to turn a profit this quarter and needs no help. Something UAL and DAL can't do this year.
I agree with you on the "dangers" of operating Love and DFW. I actually laughed out loud on that one.

I dont follow you where you state that Wright brokered a difficult deal that got DFW built. The Wright Amendment was written 5 years after DFW opened. Is that what you are referring to?

I do think that the article does give some good reasons why North Texas should consider keeping the Wright Amendment.

However, I could really care less now. I have left AA and I aint going back.
 
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canyonblue

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Dangerkitty said:
The Federal Aviation Administration correctly foresaw the growth of long-distance and international travel, requiring larger and larger aircraft with longer radius-of-maneuver requirements that would create dangerously overlapping takeoff and landing patterns if both D/FW and Love were initializing passenger flights in large aircraft.

Concerned for safety and fearful of aerial traffic jams, the FAA demanded wider separation than the close physical proximity of Love and D/FW runways.
That would be dangerous for the people of Dallas and Ft. Worth. I bet you would never see 2 airports that close in, say, Chicago. Another reason why I never believe what comes out of a politicians mouth.
 
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