Denied Jumpseat!

[TonyC]

Captains discretion. End of discussion.

True.


However...

What if the jumpseater had been black-skinned... and a similarly-pigmented First Class passenger is seated in the front row aisle seat within earshot of the Captain when he says "I don't want blacks in my cockpit."


Would that change anything?

 

[erjdriver]

RE: Delta pilots denying jumpseat rides, I can assure you that is definately NOT the case. I am a foreigner and fly RJs for Delta Connection. Never, ever was I denied a ride in the cockpit. On the contrary, every DL (and DL Connection) employee has been absolutely great to me, and quite a few pilots offered their crew meals if 1st class meals were not available.

 

[TriJet]

You guys are all phonies!!! If it had been a DL pilot denying Comair or ASA, or CO denying COEX, and if their nationality had not been brought up, you would have been all over this. But since it involves two "foreigners" you're all conciliatory. A reciprocal jumpseat agreement, with verification should have been enough.

Write it up and bring it to your jumpseat coordinator.

Like he said.

 

[TriJet]

would you let two Arab males jumpseat in your cockpit, or how would you handle it?

This question is not for me, but I would say this, if their credentials checked out good..the only acceptable answer is YES!

Where I used to work They have a pilot named Osama!!

 

[Stifler's Mom]

Ditto ERJ's statement.

I am an ASA pilot and have never had any problems with Delta pilots regarding the jumpseat.

 

[Boeingman]

True.


However...

What if the jumpseater had been black-skinned... and a similarly-pigmented First Class passenger is seated in the front row aisle seat within earshot of the Captain when he says "I don't want blacks in my cockpit."


Would that change anything?

What if what if what if. This could be beaten to death ad nausem. You do not want to start dilluting the Captains authority with the political correctness police interjecting, right or wrong, their ideas or values.

This is a door best left closed.

 

[TonyC]

What if what if what if. This could be beaten to death ad nausem. You do not want to start dilluting the Captains authority with the political correctness police interjecting, right or wrong, their ideas or values.

This is a door best left closed.

And if the First Officer and Captain had said what they said behind the closed cockpit door, it would be case closed. Unfortunately, they exercised poor judgment OUTSIDE the realm of their authority - - IMHO.

 

[Boeingman]

And if the First Officer and Captain had said what they said behind the closed cockpit door, it would be case closed. Unfortunately, they exercised poor judgment OUTSIDE the realm of their authority - - IMHO.

Perhaps, but we are only hearing one side of the story. Besides, judgement has nothing to do with who is the final, sole and only person involved in making the ultimate decision.

Like I said, you're treading on very dangerous ground interjecting political correctness parameters with the Captains discretion and authority.

 

[Dizel8]

I must be missing something. Were you trying to get on the cockpit jumpseat or ride in the cabin. Is there an agreement between your carriers, and what are those carriers or at least yours?

 

[767200]

Captains discretion. End of discussion.

To discriminate....???!!!
Glad I'm not flying with you.

 

[Boeingman]

To discriminate....???!!!
Glad I'm not flying with you.

You're not that dense are you? Wait, I think I already know the answer.

 

[Palerider957]

I agree with the above--Captains discretion. (Period). The other question needs to be answered, was this a jumpseat IN the cockpit, or was it in the cabin??

There was no reason to deny someone a ride in back, but I understand the extreme sensitivity of letting someone of the flight deck.

I agree with Boeingman that the jumpseat is not a place for political correctness. I must admit I feel badly for the original poster, I'm sorry you had to endure that.

 

[TonyC]

Perhaps, but we are only hearing one side of the story. Besides, judgement has nothing to do with who is the final, sole and only person involved in making the ultimate decision.

Like I said, you're treading on very dangerous ground interjecting political correctness parameters with the Captains discretion and authority.

I absolutely agree - - Captain is the Captain is the Captain.

The problem is the fine line between being the Captain with absolute authority, and being an emissary of the Airline. When he opens the cockpit door and allows others to hear what he says, he's not only speaking for himself, he's speaking for the airline. And when the airline discriminates on the basis of race, the airline gets in trouble.



What the Captain SHOULD have said was - - "NO, I'm sorry, I do not want you to ride in my cockpit." PERIOD. End of Story. He might deny it because he doesn't like the way he parts his hair, or because it's the 2nd Monday after Easter, or because he didn't like his horoscope that morning - - doesn't matter. What matters is when he verbalizes to others something that is considered to be illegal in any other setting.




Dizel8, Palerider957 - - read the first post, first sentence - - it was a COCKPIT JUMPSEAT. islandhoper states " I went to Airline "X", where we are in the system and jumpseat in the cockpit. " [Emphasis added]

 

[capt. megadeth]

I agree with TonyC on both posts 100%. Mar - good point

 

[Jeff Helgeson]

A few clarifications, please

Islandhopper:

You stated that the Captain doesn't like Jumpseaters in the cockpit. As far as I know you have to be on the seniority list of the airline to ride in the cockpit or maybe a codeshare partner that can be verified in their computer system.

It sounds to me that you don't work for airline "X". Did all the seats in the back fill up? Were you trying to ride physically in the jumpseat with your friend?, etc?

Let it go and move on. There may have been other circumstances that aren't personal. I have had some Captains only offer the JS for a seat in the back, even before 911.

 

[100LL... Again!]

Two words:

Jumpseat Committee.

My impression is that he essentially lied - told you that your paperwork didn't check out.

I would write it up.

If he has a 'problem' with jumpseaters, maybe a chat with someone from the committee would straighten him out.

Captain's authority is an important issue. However, some people have a nearly pathological need to express it. Self ego-stroking insome cases. I wasn't there, but IMHO it sounds like this individual had a reputation.

 

[TonyC]

Two words:

Jumpseat Committee.

My impression is that he essentially lied - told you that your paperwork didn't check out.

I would write it up.

If he has a 'problem' with jumpseaters, maybe a chat with someone from the committee would straighten him out.

I'm embarrassed that Jumpseat Committee never occurred to me. Excellent idea.

 

[~~~^~~~]

Do you work for Gulfstream?

That might explain it.

But this is not a civil rights issue. The Captain is not an employer, not a government official and you have no "right" to the jumpseat.

The jumpseat is a benefit, negotiated by the pilots of the airline you were flying.

That having been said, the Captain's concern might have been triggered by the fact there was more than one pilot who knew eachother and who apparently did not have credentials from an airline he sees everyday.

Admittedly, I get nervous when we have 135 / 121 folks coming forward for a jumpseat when I do not recognize their carrier. A few days ago I had a guy come forward with a beard, who the gate had ticketed, but he was a helicopter pilot going to work on an oil platform. I also see a few private pilots who figure they will try out the system and see how far they get and a bunch of 135 and 91 fractional guys trying to jumpseat. ( No, I don't care if you do fly "The Donald" in a 727 )

Of course the strangest jumpseaters always come forward when you are 3 mintues from scheduled departure and your cell phone battery is dead....

So, my take on this is that it is unfortunate that you felt you were unfairly scrutinized - but - a jumpseat is a gift from a stranger. Say thank you when you get it and say thanks anyway when you don't.

~~~^~~~

 

[dh82dvr]

If you have a valid licence and company ID and you are let out to the plane by the gate you ride on my plane. I would keep his name somewhere. What goes around come around and you never know when he might look for a ride on your plane.

 

[Boeingman]

What matters is when he verbalizes to others something that is considered to be illegal in any other setting.

"in any other setting". You just confirmed what I am trying to say.

Like I said before, there are 2 sides to any story. Any questioning or dillution of the concept the PIC being the final authority is a dangerous precedent.

It becomes even more impractical when the political correctness police force their beliefs for real and/or percieved injustices. They may try to influence or put pressure on a choice said PIC must make that ultimatly may not even be an actual factor in a denial.

Sorry, I draw a very distinct line in the sand on this issue.