Denied Jumpseat!

[islandhoper]

OK, the following happened to me on sunday:

Coming back from the airinc conference in LA I went to Airline "X", where we are in the system and jumpseat in the cockpit. A friend of mine got bumped of an earlier flight and ended up with cheking in on the same one. Flight was full, and gate agent verified herself and with ops to assign both of us the cockpit jumpseat. She also mentioned to us to be super nice, 'cause that captain wasn't particularly happy about jumpseaters in the cockpit...
So we go in and say hi to the flight attendants and continue to the front. F/O comes out of the cockpit and as I extend my hand (which he leaves extended!) he Asks me where I'm from. Well, I'm from Ecuador, however my name is European as my father. And yes, not easy to pronounce for the average American... My colleague happens to be from NY although from an Argentinian background..... So he continued with "capt. wants to talk to you..."
We were as polite as possible as we entered the cockpit to check with the captain. He really checked all our documents very closely, and he held on to them as he called ops again to recheck them. He asked us a bunch of questions about our company, A/C and years of employment with our airline (Both over 5). He then said that he was not confortable with the paperwork and that he needed to look into it. We were asked to wait outside. My buddy went to the exit door and I stayed in the galley chatting with the first class flight attendants. I heard the captain call ops again and had them check again in the computer. They replied that they already have and that we both are OK to go. He then said, That he needed something more. To where OPS had him stand by for a minute. Then they came back, and said they had checked with our sched. dep. andf we were verified and OK. Gate agents goes in and tells the capt. that it is time to go and if we where OK. The following is what he said to the best of my memory: "I think is weird that 2 guys from the same company want to jumpseat at the same time. They both have foreign names and they both have accents. Ops says they are OK but I don't want them in my cockpit."
The flight attendant stoped what she was doing and looked at me in disbelief.... I was called back to the cockpit and the captain told me that he had been unable to verify our documents and that they didn't look right to him... (?) And as it was time to go, I should catch the next ride or something.... I thanked him fro the time and walked away wishing him a good flight.
As I neared the exit, most of the flight attendants had gathered at the entrance with my friend. They all had heard what happened and mentioned how upset they were. They said they are going to document what they heard. As the gate agent came out to let us back into the terminal, she said she and ops were going to write it up and that we should too. She considered it clear discrimination....

We thanked her and went on to another carrier where we ride in the back. No problem all the way home...


I respect the fact of the jumpseat being Capt's discretion and do not take it for granted on any carrier. However I can't say I liked the comments I heard which at the time were obviously upseting even to the flight attendants.

I don't really want to make any deals about it, so I'm using this forum to let it out and get different opinions.



Fire your thoughts away please!

 

[islandhoper]

Being such a long story , didn't feel like proof reading it.
Sorry about the mistakes; you should still be able to get the general idea.

 

[Networ-King]

Control ALT DELETE..... Get it out of your head and don't give it another thought........


Move one man.... your gonna run into guys like that for the rest of you career. Its his call and you have to honor that. Not saying it was okay, but discrimination, to a cerain extent, has turnen into a defense mechanism. Sucks, but those 19 jagoffs caused this and it aint going away.

Sounds like you guys did the right thing by thanking him and letting it go. I wouldn't even think about writing him or the situation up to the company or your jumpseat coordinator. Thats just me though..... good luck.....

 

[Ty Webb]

Sorry to hear about it. Unfortunately, though, many Americans can't tell the difference between someone from Syria and, say, Sao Paolo, and it sounds like you were unlucky enough to run into one of them.

Having been on the receiving end of this situation, let me ask you something, though, would you let two Arab males jumpseat in your cockpit, or how would you handle it?

 

[Extra300S]

What airline was this on?

You say you were "allowed to sit in the cockpit" so you must fly for Airline "X"' commuter or express outfit?

Just who is Airline "X"


More info please???

 

[sandman2122]

Just be glad you got home that day. I've been stranded several times , not due to race/captain problems, but due to full flights.

 

[USNFDX]

PIC Authority is PIC Authority Period. As much as it sucks in this case. If the captain is uncomfortable for ANY reason and feels that it may be a distraction for him or the crew he has the right and responsibility to exclude ANYONE. I know that is not what you wanted to hear, but it can be no other way.

 

[crazee8]

I have to agree with the previous posters about just letting it go. You did the right thing, so just be satisfied that you did.

I've run into a couple jumpseat problems over the years and it's better to just let it go. I probably wouldn't write it up unless you are so bothered that you can't go on.

 

[SSDD]

You guys are all phonies!!! If it had been a DL pilot denying Comair or ASA, or CO denying COEX, and if their nationality had not been brought up, you would have been all over this. But since it involves two "foreigners" you're all conciliatory. A reciprocal jumpseat agreement, with verification should have been enough.

Write it up and bring it to your jumpseat coordinator.

 

[Oakum_Boy]

SHiatt, this happens all the time at DL. THose dudes are miserable, and sometimes don't believe the computer verification. They just don't like regional pilots, period. I'm no foreigner, but I am an ASA pilot. THat makes me worse than any potential foreign threat. Just glad I don't have an accent. I 'd never be able to get anywhere...

 

[Vortilon]

Blah blah blah blah blah blah blah.

 

[Andy]

I would have made the same call as the captain. What are the odds that not one, but two cockpit jumpseaters who are immigrants from foreign countries? I don't recall more than one foreign national who jumpseated while I was flying the line.
Like it or not, in the post-911 world, you can't be too paranoid.
Had there been seats in the back, I wouldn't have sweated it. But two foreign nationals on the flight deck? No way.
As for Ty's comment about Americans being ignorant of foreign nationals, I agree. However, the shoe bomber was French. There was an American who joined the Taliban, and he wasn't the only non-Arab who joined the Taliban. There were volunteers from many different countries.

My apologies to everyone for sounding like I'm discriminating against foreign nationals, but the captain's job is to get the passengers and aircraft safely to its destination.
What if the worst case scenario had happened, where two extremists from countries other than the middle east had arranged to take a full flight, ensuring that they would ride on the flight deck? They hijack the aircraft and plant it into the Pearl Harbor memorial or Hickam AFB. How badly would the members of this board crucify the captain for allowing two foreign nationals to jumpseat in the cockpit?

FWIW, shortly after 911, I was denied the jumpseat by a UAL captain (prior to my furlough from UAL) because I didn't have a copy of my medical certificate with me ... I had left it in my flight bag. It isn't required to jumpseat within company, and I had my UAL ID. I have no accent and am third generation in the US. It was his decision; maybe paranoid, but I respected it and caught the next flight.

 

[Flying Freddie]

I would have asked them a few technical questions like, does JetBlue pay for their airplanes!

 

[TonyC]

OK, the following happened to me on sunday:

...

Fire your thoughts away please!

First and foremost, the Captain has the ABSOLUTE AUTHORITY to deny a cockpit jumpseat to ANYONE (except a Fed), ANYTIME, ANYWHERE. That fact alone means that you MUST politely go on your way, which you did.

That being said, the Captain and the First Officer, by your account, exercised POOR judgment, and could benefit from a bit of education.

First Officer: he Asks me where I'm from.

Captain: "They both have foreign names and they both have accents. Ops says they are OK but I don't want them in my cockpit."

Both have violated Civil Rights by discriminating based on race or national origin - - and they've incriminated themselves. They've put their airline at risk of litigation. I'm OK with the Captain THINKING that to himself, but when he verbalizes such, he broadcasts to all those who hear him - - the Gate Agent, the F/O, the FA's, and you - - that it's perfectly OK to discriminate based on name and accent. Wrong.

So what do you do about it? Exactly what you did:

We were as polite as possible as we entered the cockpit to check with the captain. ... My buddy went to the exit door and I stayed in the galley chatting with the first class flight attendants. .... I was called back to the cockpit and the captain told me [lie, lie, lie] ... I thanked him fro the time and walked away wishing him a good flight.

We thanked [the gate agent] and went on to another carrier where we ride in the back.

You maintained the high road, even when the First Officer and Captain clearly did not.

So leave it at that. If the Gate Agent wants to report it, that's her call. If I were an employee of that airline, I'd want the Captain to be more educated about what he just did so that he could handle future situations better. Having a jumpseater write the airline and complain about unfair treatment as a jumpseater will never look good, even if you're 100% right and he's 100% wrong.

What REALLY bothers ME about the story you've recalled is the fact that the Captain LIED to you "the captain told me that he had been unable to verify our documents ". All he had to say is, "I do not want you in the cockpit" and he would have been done. No problem. Rather than being supported by his own spine, he had to resort to a lie. Sad.

 

[islandhoper]

Thanks for the overwhelming response!

I enjoyed reading the different opinions, specialy those that have an indepth explanation. It was never my intention to write him up but to share the experience.
And no, I don't think that posting the name of the airline is apropiate.

TY WEBB, your question is a good one: what would I do if approached by two middle eastern jumpseaters?
If everything checks ok, I would let them on, if not I would feel like we lost the war right after it started in september 2001.

In five years of extensive traveling, I have been bumped out of flights, denied jumpseat, forgotten at the gate and have also denied jumpseat to a very rude AA guy , so I understand very well the concept of PIC and the jumpseat privilege.

Yes, it was this captain's right to denie us, but in doing so, he showed "something else" about him which I don't think has room in the modern world.

SSDD, I have to agree with you, the fact that me and my friend had accents made all the difference that day...


Andy, My friend is from New york. His name is Frank and his last name could be Italian or southamerican. He does have an accent though, then again, so do people in South Carolina...

The point is, That if we discriminate everything we fear or don't understand, we just pave the way to go back to the beginning of the century! Maybe Elton John was right with that "circle of life" song....
Man, after 10 years of being here, you'd think I would loose that accent...

 

[xjcaptain]

Sucks being left behind, we've all been there too commuting. Bottom line it's the captains decision about who he will allow up front. For ANY reason. If he felt that way you probably would't have been too comfortable riding up fron anyway. Catch the next flight.

 

[mar]

My thoughts:

--Islandhopper: Nicely handled. Very professional.

--Don't loose the accent. Chicks dig it.

--If the Capt (who we agree was within his rights as PIC) truly thought you two were a security threat why didn't he contact the authorities? Apparently he thought you were enough of a threat to keep off *his* airplane but then lets you free back into a secure area of the terminal without so much as an introduction to the TSA or some other authority?

What a ding-bat.

 

[puddlejumper]

Profile(ing)

It couldn't have been that the Captain was anti-Gulfstream could it? I hate to be the one to point it out, but looking at your profile and being that you are one who hops to Islands, it makes me wonder if you may fly for GIA.

Please, I hope this doesn't turn into a PFT thread!

-pj

 

[Boeingman]

Captains discretion. End of discussion.

 

[Extra300S]

So you don't want to say who the Airline was?

Do you work for Gulfstream?