Dems & Reps

[WrightAvia]

Randall Terry , founder of Operation Rescue:
“I want you to let a wave of hatred wash over you. Yes, hate is good… Our goal is a Christian Nation. We have a Biblical duty; we are called by God, to conquer this country. We don’t want equal time. We don’t want pluralism. ”

Jerry Falwell, founder of the Moral Majority: “Just give me the Supreme Court.”

Ralph Reed, former executive director of the Christian Coalition:
“I do guerrilla warfare. I paint my face and travel at night. You don’t know until you’re in a body bag. You don’t know till election night.”

Pat Robertson, GOP presidential candidate, 1988:
“When the Christian majority takes over this country, there will be no more satanic churches, no more free distribution of pornography, no more abortion on demand, and no more talk of rights for homosexuals. After the Christian majority takes control, pluralism will be seen as immoral and evil and the state will not allow anyone to practice it. ”

 

[Timebuilder]

Randall Terry , founder of Operation Rescue

To quote this guy in any reasonable discussion of abortion is to quote David Duke or Jesse Jackson on race relations.

Jerry Falwell, founder of the Moral Majority: “Just give me the Supreme Court.”

That's reasonable. The liberal secular humanists want the court, too.

Ralph Reed, former executive director of the Christian Coalition:“I do guerrilla warfare. I paint my face and travel at night. You don’t know until you’re in a body bag. You don’t know till election night.”

A pretty good analogy to politics. It's like a war, and you don't know if you're dead of alive until election night.

Pat Robertson, GOP presidential candidate, 1988: “When the Christian majority takes over this country, there will be no more satanic churches, no more free distribution of pornography, no more abortion on demand, and no more talk of rights for homosexuals. After the Christian majority takes control, pluralism will be seen as immoral and evil and the state will not allow anyone to practice it. ”

This won't happen until the Lord returns after the tribulation. At that point, it's God's way, or the highway. That's when the Christian Majority takes over.

 

[bigD]

This won't happen until the Lord returns after the tribulation.

When is this supposed to happen? Hopefully not anytime this week - I have a fluids exam on Friday, and really need to concentrate on studying.

 

[Timebuilder]

Seven years after the rapture.

I think you're OK for the test.

 

[bigD]

Heh - I realized I forgot to put a smiley on my post. I'm glad you have a sense of humor!

 

[Timebuilder]

I had to laugh when you said "fluids exam". Sounds like a trip to the doc!

 

[bigD]

As unprepared for the exam as I am - it may end up feeling like a trip to the doctor! The proctologist, to be more precise!

 

[Super 80]

This won't happen until the Lord returns after the tribulation.
Seven years after the rapture.

From a Biblical perspective may I interject into your introduction a different perspective and a different thread?

Jesus does return after the great tribulation or distress. But the manner of His arrival as laid out in the Bible, does not necessarily follow the rapture by seven years, but the general sense of wrath following the rapture is upheld. Jesus Himself lays the key passage in the Gospels.

After the truth of Jesus' first advent to lay down His life in ransom for many is the surety of His return.

 

[Timebuilder]

If you like, I can find both the scriptural references and the calculation of the seven year timeline.

While no man knows when the rapture will happen (theoretically, it could happen at ANY moment) this even begins the tribulation, whcih Bible scholars have widely agreed is a period of seven years, during which the antichrist unifies the world after surviving a mortal wound to his head. Following this period, the Lord returns to defeat evil and begins His "millenial reign", ruling the earth from Jerusalem for 1,000 years.

 

[Super 80]

If you like, I can find both the scriptural references and the calculation of the seven year timeline.

While no man knows when the rapture will happen (theoretically, it could happen at ANY moment) this even begins the tribulation, whcih Bible scholars have widely agreed is a period of seven years, during which the antichrist unifies the world after surviving a mortal wound to his head. Following this period, the Lord returns to defeat evil and begins His "millenial reign", ruling the earth from Jerusalem for 1,000 years.

Yes, there is a seventieth 'seven' and it comes from Daniel 9:24-27. This period is not mentioned anywhere in the Bible as being the time of distress, thlipsis in the Greek. In a prophetic nature that time is referred to being without equal, thus it is a specific and unique time. It is also referred to by Jesus as being shortened or else none of the elect would survive, and as Paul says we will not all "sleep"--1Co15:51 & 1Th 4:17

The only place in the Bible where the seventieth 'seven' is to start is in Daniel 9:27, and that is with the covenant with many, ostensibly with Israel. This is the coveted Middle East peace treaty.

You are correct, no man knows the day or the hour. But Jesus lays out the key passage in putting forth a sequence of events.

Do you know what the beast of the sea (the Antichrist) does after surviving a fatal blow (with the help of the false prophet- the beast of the land)-(and not necessarily a head wound)? Specifically, how does that line up with the seventieth 'seven'?

 

[TonyC]

THE Antichrist ?!?!

If you like, I can find both the scriptural references and the calculation of the seven year timeline.

While no man knows when the rapture will happen (theoretically, it could happen at ANY moment) this even begins the tribulation, whcih Bible scholars have widely agreed is a period of seven years, during which the antichrist ...

WHOA. Hold up there for a second.

Please find me a single reference in scripture to the antichrist.

 

[Super 80]

The Antichrist is described in Daniel 7:24-26, Daniel 8:23-25, Daniel 9:27, Daniel 11:36-45, Matthew 24:24, Mark 13:22, Luke 21:20 2Thessalonians 2:3-4, Revelation 13:1b-8, Revelation 17:8, Revelation 17:10, Revelation 19:20.

The main fact about the Antichrist is that he is opposite of Christ Jesus. While Jesus had the power to lay down His life on the cross (He did not die as a crucified man would- which is why the Centurion said surely, this was the Son of God) and He had the power to pick His life back up. This was given to Him by the Father. This is why we have a bodily resurrection too.

The Antichrist (the sixth "head") is a false Christ. He has a wound which should be mortally fatal, but he does not die-a false death. Instead he merely continues to live, -a false resurrection. False death, false life: false Christ.

And his image (a detestable thing) is erected in the Temple and this image apart from previous idols of animals and men such as the one in Daniel 11:31 set up by Antiochus Epiphanes in 168 B.C. is different. Emperors have said they were God. Idols have been set up for worship. But this Emperor will set up his own image for worship and unlike images of wood, stone and metal -this image can talk! -Revelation 13:15

Here is the abomination that causes desolation spoken of by Daniel in 9:27 and Jesus in Matthew, Mark and Luke.

 

[TonyC]

The Antichrist is described in Daniel 7:24-26, Daniel 8:23-25, Daniel 9:27, Daniel 11:36-45, Matthew 24:24, Mark 13:22, Luke 21:20 2Thessalonians 2:3-4, Revelation 13:1b-8, Revelation 17:8, Revelation 17:10, Revelation 19:20.

You didn't answer my question. Where in scripture do you find "the antichrist"?

The only occurances of the word antichrist use the word as an adjective, which means (as one might expect) "against christ." Nowhere is "antichrist" used as a noun, much less as a specific noun. Please explain.

 

[Super 80]

I did.

Antichrist as a word in the NIV is only used in John's first and second letters and comes from the combination in the Greek as antichristos.

The other mentions of the Antichrist do not refer to him specifically as such just as Christians are not called Christians but are called Saints, elect, chosen, offspring, those that hold to the testimony of Jesus, and of every tribe, nation and tongue. Likewise the word Rapture does not occur in the English Bible (It does when you translate the Greek into Latin though.) nor will the word Trinity be found at all in any language.

Can you now discern the character of the Antichrist from the passages I've cited now that you're not limited to a strict name?

 

[Super 80]

I left out some references - Daniel 7:8, Daniel 7:11, 7:20-21.

Tony,

Do you think it just a coincidence that this little horn, this beast of the sea (many peoples, the great sea, Rome) this man of lawlessness, has as its main attribute the ability to speak against God with boasting, proud words, blasphemies and also has an image that can speak?

 

[UpNDownGuy]

You scared me!

Boy, I thought we were done for for a second there:



Do you think it just a coincidence that this little horn, this beast of the sea (many peoples, the great sea, Rome) this man of lawlessness, has as its main attribute the ability to speak against God with boasting, proud words, blasphemies and also has an image that can speak?


I got about half-way through the sentence , and was convinced it was Dubya, 'til you got the part of the image speaking. Whatever you want to accuse Bush of, being a speaker is not one of them.

 

[Super 80]

Personally I was always hoping Hilary Clinton would prove to "da man."

But as far as the timeline may be going, it has advanced with the formation of the EU, but the last terrible nation written in Daniel 7:7, and further in Daniel 7:19-25 and again in Revelation 13:1-2 with a further explanation in Revelation 17:12-13 has not yet been formed.

Note the nature of this nation in Revelation 13:2 is a conglomeration of the nations of Daniel 7:4-6 in inverse order. Notice also the ten kings do not have a kingdom already, but just receive authority as kings for just one hour—Rev 17:12. This suggests a ruling council over some super-state reminiscent of the Roman Empire from which the Antichrist comes to the forefront once everything is ready for him to dominate.

Nice guy isn't he? Good news: he goes to hell first with the false prophet.

 

[fLYbUDDY]

Randall Terry , founder of Operation Rescue:
“I want you to let a wave of hatred wash over you. Yes, hate is good… Our goal is a Christian Nation. We have a Biblical duty; we are called by God, to conquer this country. We don’t want equal time. We don’t want pluralism. ”

Jerry Falwell, founder of the Moral Majority: “Just give me the Supreme Court.”

Ralph Reed, former executive director of the Christian Coalition:
“I do guerrilla warfare. I paint my face and travel at night. You don’t know until you’re in a body bag. You don’t know till election night.”

Pat Robertson, GOP presidential candidate, 1988:
“When the Christian majority takes over this country, there will be no more satanic churches, no more free distribution of pornography, no more abortion on demand, and no more talk of rights for homosexuals. After the Christian majority takes control, pluralism will be seen as immoral and evil and the state will not allow anyone to practice it. ”

Jesus Christ, "Love your neighbor as yourself."

Who cares what some guy says, even if they call themselves a Christian, it is about following after Jesus and loving God with all your heart, mind, and soul. If I am doing that I am not hurting anyone. Some may think I don't deserve the right to share my beliefs because I might hurt their feelings, but that is just silly. So why is Christianity so censored and other religions aren't? How come you didn't quote the Koran, or better yet those who practice Islam as extreme as Mr. Robertson, Reed, and Falwell practice Christianity (with politics mixed in?)

Here is a quote right outta the Koran-(Sura 4:59) "59 Verily, those who disbelieve in our signs, we will broil them with fire; whenever their skins are well done, then we will change them for other skins, that they may taste the torment. Verily, God is glorious and wise."

That is just one quote. There are plenty more plus if I had the time I could find thousands of Islamic leaders that would have something to say about America and what people other than Muslims should have happen to them. My point is you will always find a few nuts that exist supporting anything. But the real evaluation of a religion, or anything for that matter, is what the book/guideline says about it and what it means in its true form, not what it means based on the opinions of people. So I ask again. Based on what the two books teach and the way that true believers of either one are supposed to act, why is the one that preaches love in the most obvious way censored, and the one that (when all said and done) preaches that whoever doesn’t follow it should be tortured and killed is the one that is given the green light, and anyone who speaks against it in this country is in danger of being politically incorrect, labeled a racist, or whatever else?

 

[Mr. Irrelevant]

Timebuilder,


What did he do to the reputation of the U.S.? Do you really think the Europeans look down on us because of a stain on a dress? They laughed at the witchhunt ($75 million for an "independent" investigation that turned up a stain on a dress) that was conducted by the GOP. They thought is was ridiciulous such a big deal was made out of it. Other parts of the world, I have no idea.

I'd assume you're just as upset with Nixon for the Watergate scandal?? Certainly not a shining moment. Probably the most neurotic President in the country's history and certainly shamed the office as much as Clinton, if not more so. I suppose it's how one looks at it. One had lower morals, the other, lower ethics.

I'd lump our current Pres in with Nixon. Seems like alot of shady behavior going on in the White House now. But that's ok because GW is a god fearing man who loves his wife. Of course, someone in that White House didn't love Joseph Wilson's wife.....but that's ok because GW is a god fearing man who loves his wife.

Really, sarcasm aaide, if we go back to reputation of the U.S., not that I'm too concerned, although I am somewhat, has anyone done more to damage our reputation among the world than GW??? I certainly wouldn't blame him for the circumstances he was placed in, economy and terrorism, but someone is going to do alot of fence mending starting either in 2004 or 2008.


Mr. I.

 

[TonyC]

I did.

Antichrist as a word in the NIV is only used in John's first and second letters and comes from the combination in the Greek as antichristos.

I'm not trying to argue, but I still don't believe you answered my original question. (I can understand the confusion, though, as I originally omitted the quotation marks around "the antichrist.") I asked you to find "the antichrist." You found "anitchrist."

Antichrist in the two books you cited is an ADJECTIVE. An adjective is a word that describes a person, place, or thing.

You insist on using antichrist as a noun - a person, place or thing. There is no example of antichrist as a noun in the Bible.

(What a difference an article makes, huh?) (Umm, "the" is an article.)

I believe that if you'll read those passages in I John and II John slowly, with the earnest desire to understand, you might see them in a new light.

By the way, what's so cryptic about "no man knowest the hour..." that people keep trying to force current events into Daniel and Revelation?