Delta's taking the path of Pan Am by trying to become a long-haul carrier

[General Lee]

There is a statement that lacks credibility: "Fins is correct."



First of all, we don't know exactly what the plan is. It seems like DFW might be closed, but we don't really know about any other hubs, like SLC. The last time I went through there I talked to the SLC station manager, and he told me Grinstein personally told him that he (Grinstein) wanted to take back the whole B Concourse and fill them with our planes (maybe Shuttle 737-300s) and fly them back to Montana again. That was from THE SLC STATION MANAGER. This was three weeks ago.

And then what about that lounge show in Atlanta two weeks ago with the management honchos? They kept pressing the EMB 100 seater.


Also, Grinstein, in this article, said nobody would fly on RJs longer than 2 hours. There would still be feed, and obviously RJs won't be flying between ATL and most of the large FLA cities, since we can still fill 764s. Also, throwing new 70 seaters on routes that now have MD88s will alienate many business passengers.

We shall see how much of his "plan" is accepted by the board.

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[climbhappy]

grinstein is making the right choice.

I think Grinstein is making the right choice. There has to be a focus for any business struggling to compete. One has to do something better that the competition can't. Delta seems to me to have a huge advantage against upstart LCCs.

The Starbuck's spin was put on the Wall st. Journal article. Starbuck's of course became a billion dollar company right under the nose of Mcdonald's and dunkin donuts. They focused on coffee. they did it better. they charged more for it. Sounds so darn simple !

 

[General Lee]

Sounds like he wants to cherry pick some of the most profitable routes out there, with little or no LCC competition. But, he will not give up his main hubs--like ATL and CVG, because if he downsizes there, he will risk the others growing at a faster rate. I see him dropping some unprofitable areas, but he won't just stop feeding his hubs with mainline aircraft and revert to only RJs---no way. If that happened, then there would be very little businessman feed. I also think that the INTL arena is an area we needed to exploit better, since there is a lack of LCCs on INTL routes.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[Palerider957]

General:

You talk about "business man feed," but that in the traditional sense really doesn't exist anymore. Perhaps on a very small scale will a buisness send an exec regardless of cost.

A couple of months ago I was dead heading to DFW and sat next to a pretty highly placed Nokia exec., he told me that they contract a service to shop for ALL of their fares, they forward him all of the options and he chooses...BUT if he doesn't choose the ABSOLUTE cheapest fare, his boss is immediately emailed about his choice. So this is the fate of modern execs., take the cheapest trip (even if it is on an RJ) and suck it up, or get reported to your boss.

The real exec., aren't wasting their time on Commercial airlines, they are buying or chartering private airplanes. (I have an inside track on this and am aware of explosive growth as airline service decays).

Overall I am a fan of GG, at least I think he talks directly to people and doesn't dance around more then he has too. My personal view is that concentrating on long-haul trans con and international is a good idea, that's what DAL does best. But it unerves me when they talk about becoming the "Starbucks" of aviation, as it has been prove time and time again that people might pay a premium for their coffee, but WON'T for their air travel. (at least not the rank and file passenger).

My personal and only marginally informed view is that DCI will grow with more domestic and shorter international routes, and larger planes. Concurently I think DAL will be reduced in size and become a leaner organization. I don't necessarly think ASA/CMR will get the growth, (sure why not give it all to those Mesa pukes). I don't say this to be inflammatory, it's just my read....

 

[Jungle_Jet]

Again, I'll state that the lack of customer service from airlines is the biggest factor driving growth of 135 ops like ours, TSA isn't tthe only reason. People are being asked to ante up absurd amounts of cash for an inferior product, then being treated by the ground staff as if the staffers are doing the customer a favor by even acknowledging their presence.

Again, based on my personal experience and talking to our customers, DL is by far the worst at this, with US coming a close second. Neither I nor the paying customer care whether the reason is that they are understaffed, as someone else offered as an excuse. I'm paying my money, I'd like to be treated as though you give a da_n about me. Most DL ground staffers probably wouldn't pi$$ on you if you were on fire right in front of them, and the other legacies really aren't any better.

Combine that with the fact that I can get them to their destination quicker, without a layover in $hitty CVG or Hartsfield, treat them with respect and do it for LESS then the majors; the writing should be on the wall.

Either change your business dynamics or go the way of Pan Am.

 

[transcon]

Just getting used to that Song paint job too...could not imagine long haul sitting in the back of one of those 57's cannot do short haul back there,,,,





www.jetsethealth.com/creworder1.htm

 

[8vATE]

What is that old man thinking at Delta...??

Pursuing the high end, premium long haul market....?
Well... Delta may be able to hide in the int'l long haul over
the Atlantic, Pacific and South America for a while...

But the domestic transcon market is rapidly becoming the domain
of numerous LCCs and the Caribbean is already in their sights too...

Sounds like a very limited, shrinking domestic plan.....

And if you abuse the customers long enough in the international market... someone will step up to serve the needs of the long haul intl markets as well...

Too bad greed and adversarial labor/mgt relations are going to destroy another airline....

 

[House_X]

What is that old man thinking at Delta...??

Pursuing the high end, premium long haul market....?
Well... Delta may be able to hide in the int'l long haul over
the Atlantic, Pacific and South America for a while...

But the domestic transcon market is rapidly becoming the domain
of numerous LCCs and the Caribbean is already in their sights too...

Sounds like a very limited, shrinking domestic plan.....

And if you abuse the customers long enough in the international market... someone will step up to serve the needs of the long haul intl markets as well...

Too bad greed and adversarial labor/mgt relations are going to destroy another airline....

What about the Skyteam concept???...I guess now they will compete with their former codeshares...

If I really want a cheap fare to Europe with hot F/A's I'm going to Virgin. If I want first class service, Lufthannsa, BA, Air France...the list goes on and on. Asia? I'll go with Cathay, ANA, JAL, Singapore Airlines. Korean Air, etc...better service, better looking F/A's etc. Europe and Asian airlines dominate their long haul markets respectively. I can tell you that China and Japan (#2 & #3 GNP in the world) will not give anymore landing slots out...they are trying to grow their own airlines.

Delta better worry about Airtran...they are kicking their a$$ in the A.T.L.

 

[General Lee]

House X,


What? Airtran is kicking our a$$ in ATL? Hmmmmm. OK. Right. What? We still fly to many many more cities from ATL than Airtran does, and those city pairs are not affected at all. Sure, we watch them closely and they are a great competitor, but we have defended ATL well. They have had to branch out to other cities to grow, and they have hurt other carriers as well.


8vate,

There will likely be a "shrinking" in DFW, but the other hubs are just speculation right now. Grinstein has to have his "plan" approved by the Board, and that is not guaranteed. Also, we really don't know exactly what the full plan will be, since this article was based off of things he supposedly said---never directly to a reporter or directly quoted. We all knew he wanted to expand on the INTL side (I was told he liked 12 INTL cities that he wanted new service a few months ago), and we also knew DFW was likely on the chopping block. A lot of this is simply speculation, and we will all eventually find out what the deal is soon.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[jetflyer]

Dallas on the chopping block??

This has been rumor for some time. What does everyone think Dallas will look like for Delta two years from now?

Will ASA, Skywest and CHQ still fly out of there a lot?

Will mainline still do some flights to ATL, NY area, and CVG but just not have planes based there?

What are you guys thoughts?

Jet