Delta's Next Aircraft Order

[FUZZO]

Anyone have any information as to when Delta's next big order is coming out? Possibly 787s or 100-seat aircraft is what I was hearing at one time.

 

[General Lee]

Anyone have any information as to when Delta's next big order is coming out? Possibly 787s or 100-seat aircraft is what I was hearing at one time.

Lot's of rumors out there right now. What we have heard currently is that there will be a mix of 777s, 787s, 737-700s, and some sort of 100 seater (not dertermined at this time). We do know that we will be getting 13-15 ex TWA 757ERs starting at 2 per month this July, plus we have an order for 10 737-700s and 2 737-800s that we know about, coming some time early next year, along with atleast 2 777LRs. Those planes have been announced, but others have been whispered about. Another whisper has been we will be hiring 500+ this year.


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[DOVPILOT]

Lot's of rumors out there right now. What we have heard currently is that there will be a mix of 777s, 787s, 737-700s, and some sort of 100 seater (not dertermined at this time). We do know that we will be getting 13-15 ex TWA 757ERs starting at 2 per month this July, plus we have an order for 10 737-700s and 2 737-800s that we know about, coming some time early next year, along with atleast 2 777LRs. Those planes have been announced, but others have been whispered about. Another whisper has been we will be hiring 500+ this year.


Bye Bye---General Lee

Good news for Delta wannabees

 

[ACL65PILOT]

expect some of the orders to starting coming out in the next three to six months. If they can get a good deal done sooner they will do it, but it has to be a good deal, they do not want to spend money on a bad deal. They have done that before.

 

[Howard Hughes]

Delta is currently undergoing a fleet realignment. Each aircraft has been and continues to be shifted to its longer range capabilities. The 767 fleet is being updated with the latest entertainment systems and seats and moved primarily to international. Some of the 757’s, including those from TWA will be used to do the same. The 737’s are/will fill in on routes previously covered by some 757’s and 767’s, especially transcon and Mexico. Even the MD’s are starting to do international (Caribbean) now. All of this shift leaves a void at the bottom and hence the need for the 100 seater being discussed. My order predictions are as follows:

• EMB 195’s to cover the short haul. Expect an order for some of these by the end of the year. If a purchase of JB were to take place these would be deployed together with the E190’s from JB.
• The 757’s/737’s mentioned by the General (13 right now). I would expect Delta to keep shopping the market for any good deals on more 757’s and turn them into long range birds. More 737’s as needed but growth in this category will not be fully realized until the 737 replacement is ready to go. Delta could be the launch customer for the Y1 referenced below.
• Some routes simply need more range than the 767’s can provide. Expect to see a few more 777LR orders added over the next couple years to supplement where 767’s can’t get it done and where a 777 will “right size” better than a 787 would in the future.
• In August or September of this year expect a large order for 787’s. Unfortunately these birds won’t be scheduled for delivery until around 2011. Although, as the international expansion gains even more traction Delta will try to get a few earlier deliveries circa 2009/2010. Not all at once but in maybe a two for one replacement the 767’s will start leaving the property around 2011 as well. Eventually all of the 767 fleet will be replaced but this will take a number of years as the 787’s roll in.
• Starting in 2013 to 2015- Expect the beginning of a major fleet replacement campaign eliminating much of the MD88/90, 737 and 757 fleet in favor of what is now being called y1 (Boeings 737/757 replacement airplane). http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_Y1

As pilots we want to see hundreds of new airplanes right now. But just like Boeing, Delta is trying to learn from the mistakes of the past, growing smart and not getting emotionally caught up in doing something just to do it. They want to make money. They are doing things smarter now than they have in many years. They seem to have the employees behind them for the most part. That is not to say the pilots for example will not be coming back to the table to get the wages back up as the cash flows in. I still see the probability as pretty good that Delta and NWA will eventually end up together but my forecast for that is moved out to the three year mark now. This will obviously affect some of the above orders with fleet consolidation. Overall good things for Delta moving forward. These are just my opinions and YMMV. Crystal ball switch off and checked.

 

[~~~^~~~]

I still see the probability as pretty good that Delta and NWA will eventually end up together but my forecast for that is moved out to the three year mark now. This will obviously affect some of the above orders with fleet consolidation.

Oh Please, no!

 

[Tomct]

Oh Please, no!

Make the bad man stop talking......PLEASE!
DAL...NWA merger....BAD JU JU!:bawling:

 

[ACL65PILOT]

Bad but probable. With United bleeding money it is only a matter of time until the payers start falling. They will be the first followed by many more.

 

[deluxxx]

United is doing so poorly they can acquire a portion of Aloha. United's loss sounds more like smoke and mirrors.

 

[~~~^~~~]

Bad but probable. With United bleeding money it is only a matter of time until the payers start falling. They will be the first followed by many more.

Huh? If Delta merged with NW that would be a "deal breaker." There is no way I would want to work for a Company that published the suggestion that employees should "look for their treasure in other peoples' garbage." What makes Delta special and worth working for is that they do not have the NWA mentality.

Keep your Delta, your Delta.

In related news, NWA's bankruptcy trustees and the Court just denied the creditors' requests to see the notes on the NWA/DAL merger proposal that was floated during Delta's bankruptcy. However, the Court said that these documents will eventually be released - probably starting a ton of out of date rumors when it happens.

I'm sure Delta looked at every possible combination when things looked bleak. Now lets hope that it is not necessary. Besides what would DL do with a bunch of out of date fleet, airbus jets and a regional mess at least equal to anything at DCI?

 

[FDJ2]

I'm sure Delta looked at every possible combination when things looked bleak.

Delta did.

Now lets hope that it is not necessary.

It isn't.

There is no large merger on the horizon for DAL. I would not expect any mergers between any of the Legacy carriers in the near term.

 

[johnsonrod]

Slightly off topic, but since it has been mentioned in this thread a few times. I highly doubt DAL will ever merge with NWA. Why? It would set a precedent and force all of the mega carriers to merge to better compete. That would then negatively impact consumer choice (fewer viable options) - and we all know that would not be acceptable to Congress/Oberstar, etc. If another combination were granted first, then DAL and NWA would likely be allowed to merge (because the precedent had already been set).

The USAirways/AWA merger was a fluke because USAirways was headed to the liquidation farm and too many jobs were in jeopardy. I can't see mega mergers among "financially viable" carriers happening without major anti-competitive regulators jumping in to stop them.

That's my $0.02.

 

[ACL65PILOT]

I agree that a DL/NWA merger is not a good idea at all. NW has a lot of issues that it had to deal with. A lot more than the other carriers. Their domestic fleet is out of date. It will take big bucks to do that.
On the comment on UAL. I hope to god that it is smoke and mirrors. I think that, that game would have been played out a few years ago. That said anything is possibly.
FIN are you going to be changing employers shortly?

 

[FDJ2]

Slightly off topic, but since it has been mentioned in this thread a few times. I highly doubt DAL will ever merge with NWA. Why? It would set a precedent and force all of the mega carriers to merge to better compete. That would then negatively impact consumer choice (fewer viable options) - and we all know that would not be acceptable to Congress/Oberstar, etc. If another combination were granted first, then DAL and NWA would likely be allowed to merge (because the precedent had already been set).

The USAirways/AWA merger was a fluke because USAirways was headed to the liquidation farm and too many jobs were in jeopardy. I can't see mega mergers among "financially viable" carriers happening without major anti-competitive regulators jumping in to stop them.

That's my $0.02.

Bingo!!!

 

[AA717driver]

Money talks. If the right amount shows up in Oberstar's wife's bank account, the merger happens. If not, then Big O will be indignant and stand up for "what is right".

This is way too simple... "rolleyes" TC

 

[johnsonrod]

Any legacy merger will lead to accelerated consolidation within the industry. You can't allow one and not allow others. Sure, you will always have independents like SWA and Skybus, but they won't offer international connections (although SWA may leverage ATA a bit). So, it is likely that big airline mergers will not happen unless they are on the verge of liquidation and there is no way of salvaging them (ie USAirways).

No way consumer choice will ever be compromised without a huge fight. That's the point.

 

[~~~^~~~]

I don't know that I agree. Airlines' anti trust regulation is handled by the Department of Justice as part of their clearance agreement with the Federal Trade Commission. This political distinction should not be overlooked.

The DOJ has a record for poor (nil) enforcement of the Sherman Anti Trust Act and has been under constant fire for alleged manipulation by the President and his White House Staff. On the other hand the Federal Trade Commission has an excellent record of taking on monopolies and trusts. Examples can be seen in all the branded pharmaceuticals who have been tackled for trying to keep generics off the market. The FTC Chief was appointed by Bush, but knew McCain from his fighter pilot days.

At any rate the DOJ will probably rubber stamp any merger that comes its way unless the White House, or Congress, get involved. Bush has been very anit labor and hands off. Congress might get involved and Delta certainly hit the right political buttons with their "Keep our Delta" campaign.

So - I would not count on the DOJ to regulate airlines. The government seems to tacitly encourage a little uncompetitive trust conspiracy figuring the potential job loss is worse than the damage to the consumer. Further, the DOJ is so tied up with political infighting that it seems to be irrelevant - for our industry at least.

 

[~~~^~~~]

Duplicate post

 

[JoeMerchant]

I don't know that I agree. Airlines' anti trust regulation is handled by the Department of Justice as part of their clearance agreement with the Federal Trade Commission. This political distinction should not be overlooked.

The DOJ has a record for poor (nil) enforcement of the Sherman Anti Trust Act and has been under constant fire for alleged manipulation by the President and his White House Staff. On the other hand the Federal Trade Commission has an excellent record of taking on monopolies and trusts. Examples can be seen in all the branded pharmaceuticals who have been tackled for trying to keep generics off the market. The FTC Chief was appointed by Bush, but knew McCain from his fighter pilot days.

At any rate the DOJ will probably rubber stamp any merger that comes its way unless the White House, or Congress, get involved. Bush has been very anit labor and hands off. Congress might get involved and Delta certainly hit the right political buttons with their "Keep our Delta" campaign.

So - I would not count on the DOJ to regulate airlines. The government seems to tacitly encourage a little uncompetitive trust conspiracy figuring the potential job loss is worse than the damage to the consumer. Further, the DOJ is so tied up with political infighting that it seems to be irrelevant - for our industry at least.

Fins,

Don't you think a little less competition would be good for all of us? It is this cut throat competition that is causing much of our problems from a labor standpoint. The Deregulation Act of 1978 was good for consumers, but not for us...

We need to get pricing power back....

 

[~~~^~~~]

My only point is that the DOJ is not a determining factor. They are too involved with their own little inside the beltway World.

 

[maremare505]

Dude;
The order is already in. 100 A320's and 25 E-jets, plus options.

 

[737 Pylt]

Fins,

Don't you think a little less competition would be good for all of us? It is this cut throat competition that is causing much of our problems from a labor standpoint. The Deregulation Act of 1978 was good for consumers, but not for us...

We need to get pricing power back....

Holy crap.....Stop the press!
I agree with Joe!

737

 

[JoeMerchant]

Holy crap.....Stop the press!
I agree with Joe!

737

Actually we probably agree on more than you realize.... I saw on the other DAL thread that you have a problem with affirmative action, as do I.... We are on opposite sides of the scope fence.... a fence that should never have been built....

 

[737 Pylt]

Actually we probably agree on more than you realize.... I saw on the other DAL thread that you have a problem with affirmative action, as do I.... We are on opposite sides of the scope fence.... a fence that should never have been built....

At least we can agree to disagree on that one!

737

 

[JoeMerchant]

At least we can agree to disagree on that one!

737

We don't "disagree" so much as we are on opposite sides of a fence. You are looking out for your best interests, and I am looking out for my best interests... no disagreement, just reality. ALPA should have never allowed multiple carriers to compete within a brand for flying... it has done neither one of us any good. In fact, it has hurt your side of the fence more than my side.....

 

[Howard Hughes]

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/businesstechnology/2003712794_webdelta18.html


Delta likely to order 787s this year, says CEO

By Dominic Gates
Seattle Times aerospace reporter


Delta Air Lines will likely be the first of the big three U.S. legacy airlines to order Boeing's 787, chief executive Gerald Grinstein said Friday in Seattle.
The 74-year-old Grinstein, set to leave Delta this summer after guiding it through Chapter 11, said his successor will make any order decision — but he'd be surprised if the carrier doesn't buy its first Dreamliners by the end of the year.
In the last year Delta added more than 60 new international routes, which typically require long-range widebody jets.
Delta flies more than 100 mid-size 767 jets. Grinstein, in town for the Microsoft CEO summit, said in a brief interview that those planes need to be replaced starting as early as 2011.
"Of course, you could wait for the (Airbus) A350," he said, "But why?"
The new Boeing jet is "perfect" for the needs of the U.S. carriers, with the right size and the necessary range, he said. The bigger A350 rival that Airbus is proposing could be too big for many of the routes Delta wants to fly, Grinstein said.
"Boeing has got it right," he said.
Grinstein said he is not worried about the availability of delivery slots for the 787, because Boeing can always "miraculously" find slots when it needs them for a big order. The company does that either through keeping some delivery slots available for significant customers or by arranging for other airlines to defer their orders until later.
Delta, headquartered in Atlanta, Ga., came out of bankruptcy April 30 after a 19-month restructuring that cut 6,000 jobs and slashed debt. The carrier projects $8 billion per year in cost and revenue improvements.
Grinstein grew up in Seattle, studied law at Harvard and later worked for Washington's powerful former U.S. Senator Warren Magnuson.
He launched a business career in the mid-1980s, heading Western Airlines, based in Salt Lake City, Utah. When Delta acquired Western in 1987, he joined the board of the larger airline.
He then led the Burlington Northern railroad company and oversaw its acquisition of Santa Fe Pacific. He retired in 1995, but was persuaded in January 2004 to take over as Delta's CEO to steer it through its financial crisis.
From this summer, he'll be back living in Seattle.
Dominic Gates: 206-464-2963 or [email protected]

 

[Howard Hughes]

I'm sure many have already heard this but Delta is looking to pick up 13 additional MD-90's from China Southern, possibly in trade for some of the CRJ's they have on order. This will even further bump the pilot hiring if this happens.

 

[ACL65PILOT]

Lots more are going to be coming behind us Howard...

 

[800Dog]

Lots more are going to be coming behind us Howard...

Hopefully all will not be 2,000 hr wonders with boobs and no turbine pic time. Lets hire some who have truely paid there dues and sacrificed to make it to a major. Male, female, black, white, lets hire the most qualified.

 

[michael707767]

Hopefully all will not be 2,000 hr wonders with boobs and no turbine pic time. Lets hire some who have truely paid there dues and sacrificed to make it to a major. Male, female, black, white, lets hire the most qualified.

But what is the most qualified? Does 5000 hours automatically make you more qualified than someone with 2000?

All you people who have applied to Delta need to get over the fact that one girl got hired with 2000 hours. The total number of hours is not what gets you hired at Delta. Hours are just one part of the equation. Delta does not hire a logbook. The sooner people understand that, the sooner you will stop losing sleep cause some pilot with less hours than you got hired.