Delta's Future

[XRMEFLYER]

No way Dalpa would give that up with 1060 on the street

Here is a "way" that could happen slick. If in the future negotiations regarding your pay rates there were to be a proposal put on the table that secured the pension funds (a la your managemant's pension) of the 8000 or so who are left (and have a vote BTW) and resulted in a pay reduction of only-- (insert your own arbitrary figure here) you guys would sell your furloughs out in a second. Not you of course, because you care so much about them..., but enough of your pizos over there could give a crap who flys the 100 seaters and are more concerned with funding their kid's private education.

I guess our 737-200s will be our 100 seater for now.....

Yeah they will be YOUR 100 seater for a bit longer until we get their replacement and the 200s are retired!

AMF

 

[wms]

The worst thing we could do is fly 100 seaters. Not only would it keep the furloughs on the street, but the pay they would offer us would be a slap in the face, lowering the bar for competitve rates on mainline aircraft. Not only that, but it would further jeopardize career advancement to the mainline and seal our position at a commuter. The only ones who would favor that are the RJDC geezers.

If they want regionals to fly mainline aircraft the rates should be mainline rates plus, since we don't have the overhead of all the bennies; and furloughee recalls should be tied to it.

 

[XRMEFLYER]

I don't entirely agree with your premise that it would be the "worst" thing. Their furloughs notwithstanding, it would benefit more than just the "geezers."
Whether it happens or not is debatable, but not the done deal that pompous preening windbag would like to think.

(there go your 100 seaters ASA and Comair...Bu--bye)

What a class act!

 

[46Driver]

I was talking about this the other day with some ASA bubbas. If Delta gets the jets, that's great, higher pay and better work rules but the catch is they have to get hired there - after the 1000+ furloughees get recalled. If ASA (or any other connection carrier got them), it would be a nice jump to well over $100k per year as a captain and they already have a seniority number.

What did Dante say? "Better to rule in Hell then serve in Heaven?" At any rate, they just hope Delta or DCI gets the jets. It will be interesting to watch.

 

[General Lee]

Xrmeflyer,

Talk about classy. First of all, you obviously don't seem to care much about the 1060 guys on the street---and a lot of them were ex-Comair or ASA guys who just were in the wrong place at the wrong time. They went for their dream job and were screwed in the end.. But, too bad for them, right? You also want 100 seaters at DCI---which would bring mainline equipment and wages/benies down to the regional level--erasing those wages and benies forever. Instead of you going UP to fly those with better pay and benies, you want to bring them DOWN to your regional level and get less---for the same planes. That is what would happen. But, you don't care chief---you are at Comair and DON'T think you would ever go UP to Delta anyways (good assumption). I guess a guy's gotta do what a guy's gotta do....Nice......


Dalpa will not give them up----there might be some relief for the 70 seaters, but I have personally talked to many Dalpa duty officers on the phone about this very subject, and they ALL said that they will not give them up. You may see a couple more 70 seaters---but those actually might go to another DCI carrier (which would suit Delta fine) because Delta thinks you are too expensive.......Enjoy!

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[rjcap]

Dalpa will not give them up

Are the mainline pilots more concerned about 70 seat scope or their own pension accounts ???

 

[46Driver]

I was wondering the same thing. If it comes down to bankruptcy and seeing what happened to UAL's and USAir's pensions, would DALPA waive the 100 seaters to DCI to save their retirements?

That is the billion dollar question.

 

[FlyBoeingJets]

I think you already the know the answer to this question.

 

[ATR-DRIVR]

Why would D put 100 seat airplanes at DCI?? They are NOT going to DCI. ASA had the BAE's which was not very reliable and off they went. New contract, new sheriff, new situation. I don't see where the thought is that they would go there.
My guess is the 25 RFP rj's won't even see ASA paint either.

 

[General Lee]

Doesn't UAL still have their pensions? Yes, yes they do. Only USAir terminated their pensions---and United is probably in worse shape. They can't just terminate them either--they have to file a termination notice--which could take 90 days. Anyone within that time can still retire and take their lump sum.....And, I have talked with the MEC members and they stated that they will NOT negotiate that away, and that they are a very "furlough friendly" MEC.....Also, we still have $2.8 billion in cash and have some time before any of this would happen----with a great Spring and Summer to go. See, I can spin just like Baghdad Bob! No, I think we have time---and the internal pressures form our major investors (GE Capital, Morgan Stanley, etc...) will push Grinstein to negotiate....Who knows???

Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[XRMEFLYER]

Generally,

You are right about one thing, I could give a rat's about your furloughs. Nothing personal, just business. Give the holier than thou "I love my furloughed brother" routine a rest. If it weren't so phoney it would be comical.

I've seen unity and brotherhood and know exactly what it is to be willing to sacrifice everything for the man next to me. This business does not even merit a comparison when it comes to that so stow it hoss. Just like your buds over there with mistresses and boats to support, when push comes to shove you will do what is right for you and yours and them and theirs will be an afterthought.

Dalpa will not give them up----there might be some relief for the 70 seaters, but I have personally talked to many Dalpa duty officers on the phone about this very subject, and they ALL said that they will not give them up. You may see a couple more 70 seaters---but those actually might go to another DCI carrier (which would suit Delta fine) because Delta thinks you are too expensive.......Enjoy!

Well there you have it straight from the horse's a$$. We can all rest easier now.

 

[FlyComAirJets]

If the current DAL MEC is so "furlough friendly," then why are there still over a thousand "friends" approaching their third year on the street?

 

[rjcap]

----with a great Spring and Summer to go

I guessed you missed the news regarding the upcoming summer fare wars. I don't think the summer time revenue/yield will be that strong.

and the internal pressures form our major investors (GE Capital, Morgan Stanley, etc...) will push Grinstein to negotiate..

Grinstein will have more leverage to negotiate with creditors with a potential chap 11 filing looming.

 

[XRMEFLYER]

Anyone within that time can still retire and take their lump sum.....And, I have talked with the MEC members and they stated that they will NOT negotiate that away, and that they are a very "furlough friendly" MEC.....

As I've stated elsewhere, they will do whatever it takes to keep their pensions intact up to and including selling those who are not on the property now down the river. To think otherwise is naive.
"Furlough Friendly" indeed- more like "after me you come first"

 

[General Lee]

Here we go again.

X-ream-me-flyer,

Hey, that was a good one. I am glad you don't care about our furloughs. I hope you never have problems in your life. You really have no clue how the pension program works, or how many people will be leaving early anyways---due to the fact that our RETIREMENT is based off of your BEST THREE---not LAST THREE years. So, with looming pay cuts---most guys will debate within themselves whether or not it is worth it to continue--and a lot will bail. (we supposedly have more than 600 guys with over 25 years and full retirement---and every time a 777 Capt leaves---12 guys move up) There will be some recalls if a large bunch bails---and what you don't know is that there are current MEC members that were furloughed in the early 90's---and they do the voting on the major issues.

"Just like your buds over there with mistresses and boats to support"----that is truely one of the stupidest things I have ever read. Oh yeah--we all have money rolling out of our pockets---giving it to the strippers on our long unproductive overnights......Give me a break. Quit the "woe is me" attitude---it makes you look weak---soldier.


Flycomairjets,

Why do we still have 1060 furloughs on the street? The arbitrator said so---there is NOTHING we can do to get them back until the RPMS come back to pre-9-11 levels 4 months in a row---which should happen by this Summer. Our Dalpa people fought hard and "won" the release of 250 of them (from the previous 1310 total)---and we are still paying the Cobra assessment for about 600 out of the 1060. (the others declined) Sounds "furlough friendly" to me.


RJCAP,

What I meant was that the busy Spring and Summer will slow down the bleeding process. Full planes are better than empty--and especially our INTL stuff--will be full and those fares aren't really fought over. You are right about domestic fares being competitive, and maybe our negotiations will go forward and we can save them some money now. We shall see what Grinstein's "plan" is around July 1st---and then we will see what goes on from there. Also, I understand that in Chap 11 we would have more "leverage"---but if you don't think he is getting an "ear full" from investors now---you are kidding yourself. Didn't Morgan Stanley just invest $325 million by themselves for that last bond offering? Why would they do that? By themselves? Kinda risky, eh? They must have had some assurances.... Hopefully Grinstein will come around and we will give them a chunk of relief. Then, I hope gas prices eventually fall (OPEC is now saying they may NOT cut quotas soon---which resulted today in a 72 cents fall per barrel). We shall see.......

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[XRMEFLYER]

X-ream-me-flyer,

Hey, that was a good one.

Well not really, but keep at it though.

I hope you never have problems in your life.

No you really could care less and I am OK with that believe me. Maybe you should try to come to grips with everyone else not being overly concerned with you and your buddies situation. I know that challenges the notion that the world revolves around you guys, but in truth it does not.

You really have no clue how the pension program works, or how many people will be leaving early anyways---due to the fact that our RETIREMENT is based off of your BEST THREE---not LAST THREE years. So, with looming pay cuts---most guys will debate within themselves whether or not it is worth it to continue--and a lot will bail. (we supposedly have more than 600 guys with over 25 years and full retirement---and every time a 777 Capt leaves---12 guys move up) There will be some recalls if a large bunch bails---and what you don't know is that there are current MEC members that were furloughed in the early 90's---and they do the voting on the major issues.

Yawn,.....I'm sorry were you talking again?

Quit the "woe is me" attitude---it makes you look weak---

Wrong again little lord fauntleroy. It is you and your sniveling about who needs to join you in pay cuts and why won't you help my underpriveleged furloughed brothers who not only looks, but is weak. I am merely shining a light on your BS. Suck it up and drive on Mary!

 

[General Lee]

Ream-me,

You are really funny---very funny man. Except you are in a worse situation. Your pay looks like it will tank if mine does----and there is nothing you can do about it. The judge will look at your Comair pay, then say---hmmmmm----bring it down to Mesa's. And Delta will no doubt be asking for that. I guess that means we are your best hope---you better start hoping we get a negotiation going---or you will wish you were full time flying that Black hawk.....

As far as my helping my furloughed brothers---ever heard of "man down"? helping a man down? Oh that's right---you were a RAMBO working by yourself in the Military...What a joke...You are the joke, man. I am glad you only look out for "number 1." You go ahead and do that....Hey, I am still flying and making money--but I still look out for my friends----something you obviously DON'T have. Have fun Rambo---and watch out for your pay cuts---they are commin---oh yes they are tuff guy.

Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[spanky2]

XCREMENT,
Are you sure you were never denied a job at Delta (mainline, that is)? Maybe you're just a wannabe. Go ahead, flame away, O wise one.

 

[~~~^~~~]

You also want 100 seaters at DCI---which would bring mainline equipment and wages/benies down to the regional level--erasing those wages and benies forever. Instead of you going UP to fly those with better pay and benies, you want to bring them DOWN to your regional level and get less---for the same planes.

You may see a couple more 70 seaters---but those actually might go to another DCI carrier (which would suit Delta fine) because Delta thinks you are too expensive.......Enjoy!

Bye Bye--General Lee

General:

(1) Name one mainline carrier flying a new 100 seat airplane for more than a regional carrier.

The United guys are flying regional jets for the same as their codeshare partners second year rates and US Air is tied to Eagle's rates on airplanes that are 737 sized EMB170's. You know that I make more than any ALPA represented mainline pilot flying a new 100 seat jet!

AirTran is the highest paid operator of a 100 seat sized aircraft - and they are non-ALPA.

Face it, this crap about a 100 seat airplane being flown at mainline has nothing to do with it paying more, because there is not a single example of an ALPA airline where ALPA's story holds water.

You think things would be different a Delta, where senior pilots are sitting around a table talking concessions? Get real.

(2) That having been said, it is a shame to see you cheer that more flying might be going outside the Delta family. The problem is that your MEC sold scope and allowed everybody and their brother start whipsawing each other for Delta flying. You know this - so why cheer more destruction of Delta pilots? We have Delta pilots in our next couple of classes at ASA. It aint much, coming onto the bottom of our list, but the more flying that goes to Chautauqua, or Skywest, the more flying that goes outside of ALPA and the more ATL based Delta pilots who would like to perform this flying suffer.

I know there is a lot of animosity over scope, but we should never forget that you and I have more interests in common than we do with pilots outside the Delta family.

(3) It is very doubtful that Delta is going to purchase a 100 seat jet. If it is purchased, it my personal opinion that it should be used to get some furloughees off the street. But, a better way to do this is to have your MEC push a PID and get everyone on one list.

~~~^~~~

P.S. My figures were quotes from Fred Reid that Mike Pinho said that ALPA had verified.

When is Grinstien coming to town - lets go listen, I'll buy the Starbucks.

 

[XRMEFLYER]

You are really funny---very funny man. Except you are in a worse situation. Your pay looks like it will tank if mine does----and there is nothing you can do about it. The judge will look at your Comair pay, then say---hmmmmm----bring it down to Mesa's. And Delta will no doubt be asking for that. I guess that means we are your best hope---you better start hoping we get a negotiation going---or you will wish you were full time flying that Black hawk.....

I heard "nanana booboo something something else......Blackhawk." I'm sorry I don't speak sniveling whiner can you put that into adult English for me.

As far as my helping my furloughed brothers---ever heard of "man down"? helping a man down? Oh that's right---you were a RAMBO working by yourself in the Military...What a joke...You are the joke, man. I am glad you only look out for "number 1." You go ahead and do that....Hey, I am still flying and making money--but I still look out for my friends----something you obviously DON'T have. Have fun Rambo---and watch out for your pay cuts---they are commin---oh yes they are tuff guy.

Yeah spoken like a guy who has never worn the uniform. Watching movies on the matter does not qualify you to comment.
"Ever heard of a man down"? Yeah Shirley, I will refer you to my earlier post on the subject.

Spanksalot,

GFY