Delta's Future

[XRMEFLYER]

Generally,

You are right about one thing, I could give a rat's about your furloughs. Nothing personal, just business. Give the holier than thou "I love my furloughed brother" routine a rest. If it weren't so phoney it would be comical.

I've seen unity and brotherhood and know exactly what it is to be willing to sacrifice everything for the man next to me. This business does not even merit a comparison when it comes to that so stow it hoss. Just like your buds over there with mistresses and boats to support, when push comes to shove you will do what is right for you and yours and them and theirs will be an afterthought.

Dalpa will not give them up----there might be some relief for the 70 seaters, but I have personally talked to many Dalpa duty officers on the phone about this very subject, and they ALL said that they will not give them up. You may see a couple more 70 seaters---but those actually might go to another DCI carrier (which would suit Delta fine) because Delta thinks you are too expensive.......Enjoy!

Well there you have it straight from the horse's a$$. We can all rest easier now.

 

[FlyComAirJets]

If the current DAL MEC is so "furlough friendly," then why are there still over a thousand "friends" approaching their third year on the street?

 

[rjcap]

----with a great Spring and Summer to go

I guessed you missed the news regarding the upcoming summer fare wars. I don't think the summer time revenue/yield will be that strong.

and the internal pressures form our major investors (GE Capital, Morgan Stanley, etc...) will push Grinstein to negotiate..

Grinstein will have more leverage to negotiate with creditors with a potential chap 11 filing looming.

 

[XRMEFLYER]

Anyone within that time can still retire and take their lump sum.....And, I have talked with the MEC members and they stated that they will NOT negotiate that away, and that they are a very "furlough friendly" MEC.....

As I've stated elsewhere, they will do whatever it takes to keep their pensions intact up to and including selling those who are not on the property now down the river. To think otherwise is naive.
"Furlough Friendly" indeed- more like "after me you come first"

 

[General Lee]

Here we go again.

X-ream-me-flyer,

Hey, that was a good one. I am glad you don't care about our furloughs. I hope you never have problems in your life. You really have no clue how the pension program works, or how many people will be leaving early anyways---due to the fact that our RETIREMENT is based off of your BEST THREE---not LAST THREE years. So, with looming pay cuts---most guys will debate within themselves whether or not it is worth it to continue--and a lot will bail. (we supposedly have more than 600 guys with over 25 years and full retirement---and every time a 777 Capt leaves---12 guys move up) There will be some recalls if a large bunch bails---and what you don't know is that there are current MEC members that were furloughed in the early 90's---and they do the voting on the major issues.

"Just like your buds over there with mistresses and boats to support"----that is truely one of the stupidest things I have ever read. Oh yeah--we all have money rolling out of our pockets---giving it to the strippers on our long unproductive overnights......Give me a break. Quit the "woe is me" attitude---it makes you look weak---soldier.


Flycomairjets,

Why do we still have 1060 furloughs on the street? The arbitrator said so---there is NOTHING we can do to get them back until the RPMS come back to pre-9-11 levels 4 months in a row---which should happen by this Summer. Our Dalpa people fought hard and "won" the release of 250 of them (from the previous 1310 total)---and we are still paying the Cobra assessment for about 600 out of the 1060. (the others declined) Sounds "furlough friendly" to me.


RJCAP,

What I meant was that the busy Spring and Summer will slow down the bleeding process. Full planes are better than empty--and especially our INTL stuff--will be full and those fares aren't really fought over. You are right about domestic fares being competitive, and maybe our negotiations will go forward and we can save them some money now. We shall see what Grinstein's "plan" is around July 1st---and then we will see what goes on from there. Also, I understand that in Chap 11 we would have more "leverage"---but if you don't think he is getting an "ear full" from investors now---you are kidding yourself. Didn't Morgan Stanley just invest $325 million by themselves for that last bond offering? Why would they do that? By themselves? Kinda risky, eh? They must have had some assurances.... Hopefully Grinstein will come around and we will give them a chunk of relief. Then, I hope gas prices eventually fall (OPEC is now saying they may NOT cut quotas soon---which resulted today in a 72 cents fall per barrel). We shall see.......

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[XRMEFLYER]

X-ream-me-flyer,

Hey, that was a good one.

Well not really, but keep at it though.

I hope you never have problems in your life.

No you really could care less and I am OK with that believe me. Maybe you should try to come to grips with everyone else not being overly concerned with you and your buddies situation. I know that challenges the notion that the world revolves around you guys, but in truth it does not.

You really have no clue how the pension program works, or how many people will be leaving early anyways---due to the fact that our RETIREMENT is based off of your BEST THREE---not LAST THREE years. So, with looming pay cuts---most guys will debate within themselves whether or not it is worth it to continue--and a lot will bail. (we supposedly have more than 600 guys with over 25 years and full retirement---and every time a 777 Capt leaves---12 guys move up) There will be some recalls if a large bunch bails---and what you don't know is that there are current MEC members that were furloughed in the early 90's---and they do the voting on the major issues.

Yawn,.....I'm sorry were you talking again?

Quit the "woe is me" attitude---it makes you look weak---

Wrong again little lord fauntleroy. It is you and your sniveling about who needs to join you in pay cuts and why won't you help my underpriveleged furloughed brothers who not only looks, but is weak. I am merely shining a light on your BS. Suck it up and drive on Mary!

 

[General Lee]

Ream-me,

You are really funny---very funny man. Except you are in a worse situation. Your pay looks like it will tank if mine does----and there is nothing you can do about it. The judge will look at your Comair pay, then say---hmmmmm----bring it down to Mesa's. And Delta will no doubt be asking for that. I guess that means we are your best hope---you better start hoping we get a negotiation going---or you will wish you were full time flying that Black hawk.....

As far as my helping my furloughed brothers---ever heard of "man down"? helping a man down? Oh that's right---you were a RAMBO working by yourself in the Military...What a joke...You are the joke, man. I am glad you only look out for "number 1." You go ahead and do that....Hey, I am still flying and making money--but I still look out for my friends----something you obviously DON'T have. Have fun Rambo---and watch out for your pay cuts---they are commin---oh yes they are tuff guy.

Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[spanky2]

XCREMENT,
Are you sure you were never denied a job at Delta (mainline, that is)? Maybe you're just a wannabe. Go ahead, flame away, O wise one.

 

[~~~^~~~]

You also want 100 seaters at DCI---which would bring mainline equipment and wages/benies down to the regional level--erasing those wages and benies forever. Instead of you going UP to fly those with better pay and benies, you want to bring them DOWN to your regional level and get less---for the same planes.

You may see a couple more 70 seaters---but those actually might go to another DCI carrier (which would suit Delta fine) because Delta thinks you are too expensive.......Enjoy!

Bye Bye--General Lee

General:

(1) Name one mainline carrier flying a new 100 seat airplane for more than a regional carrier.

The United guys are flying regional jets for the same as their codeshare partners second year rates and US Air is tied to Eagle's rates on airplanes that are 737 sized EMB170's. You know that I make more than any ALPA represented mainline pilot flying a new 100 seat jet!

AirTran is the highest paid operator of a 100 seat sized aircraft - and they are non-ALPA.

Face it, this crap about a 100 seat airplane being flown at mainline has nothing to do with it paying more, because there is not a single example of an ALPA airline where ALPA's story holds water.

You think things would be different a Delta, where senior pilots are sitting around a table talking concessions? Get real.

(2) That having been said, it is a shame to see you cheer that more flying might be going outside the Delta family. The problem is that your MEC sold scope and allowed everybody and their brother start whipsawing each other for Delta flying. You know this - so why cheer more destruction of Delta pilots? We have Delta pilots in our next couple of classes at ASA. It aint much, coming onto the bottom of our list, but the more flying that goes to Chautauqua, or Skywest, the more flying that goes outside of ALPA and the more ATL based Delta pilots who would like to perform this flying suffer.

I know there is a lot of animosity over scope, but we should never forget that you and I have more interests in common than we do with pilots outside the Delta family.

(3) It is very doubtful that Delta is going to purchase a 100 seat jet. If it is purchased, it my personal opinion that it should be used to get some furloughees off the street. But, a better way to do this is to have your MEC push a PID and get everyone on one list.

~~~^~~~

P.S. My figures were quotes from Fred Reid that Mike Pinho said that ALPA had verified.

When is Grinstien coming to town - lets go listen, I'll buy the Starbucks.

 

[XRMEFLYER]

You are really funny---very funny man. Except you are in a worse situation. Your pay looks like it will tank if mine does----and there is nothing you can do about it. The judge will look at your Comair pay, then say---hmmmmm----bring it down to Mesa's. And Delta will no doubt be asking for that. I guess that means we are your best hope---you better start hoping we get a negotiation going---or you will wish you were full time flying that Black hawk.....

I heard "nanana booboo something something else......Blackhawk." I'm sorry I don't speak sniveling whiner can you put that into adult English for me.

As far as my helping my furloughed brothers---ever heard of "man down"? helping a man down? Oh that's right---you were a RAMBO working by yourself in the Military...What a joke...You are the joke, man. I am glad you only look out for "number 1." You go ahead and do that....Hey, I am still flying and making money--but I still look out for my friends----something you obviously DON'T have. Have fun Rambo---and watch out for your pay cuts---they are commin---oh yes they are tuff guy.

Yeah spoken like a guy who has never worn the uniform. Watching movies on the matter does not qualify you to comment.
"Ever heard of a man down"? Yeah Shirley, I will refer you to my earlier post on the subject.

Spanksalot,

GFY

 

[General Lee]

Ream-me,

Man alive, you are a funny one. Who between us is really saying "Blah Blah Blah...." ? It aint me. Enjoy.....

Fins,

If it were a perfect world, we would all be flying the planes within the Delta "family"---but since we are paid too much--we don't get growth at mainline (and 5 777 orders were sold). They will do the same to you---and those 25 RJs will be your carrots for lower pay or the same pay (via your new contract). It is a losing battle my friend---and you and I (and even ream-me) will be on the short end eventually.

As far as going to see Grinstein---I will pass---but I think I already know what he will say. He might start with "just the facts", followed by what has happened to our industry, and then say that huge cuts will be had or Chap 11. He will say that and try to manage your expectations---and he will say it will be 40% for all contract people (probably you too). The reason I will not attend is because we have people that he should be talking to right NOW---our negotiators. As far as the coffee goes at Starbucks---someday I will buy you one at the ATL airport. (then you can't say a Delta pilot never did anything for you....) Take care bud.

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[skydraulic]

The reason I will not attend is because we have people that he should be talking to right NOW---our negotiators.

Didn't Gerald invite DALPA negotiators to come along on his road show? If Gerry was so full of it, wouldn't that be a golden opportunity for the MEC to exploit his BS and stake their clame? Not trying to bait...just trying to look from an outsider's point of view

 

[General Lee]

We have financial people looking at the situation too, and Dalpa did provide pay scales for other airlines etc.. for our people if they attend--so the facts are not mixed up. As far as publicly debating him---this isn't the Gerry Springer program---we have the ability to sit down in a room and talk face to face--without all of the hoop la. Grinstein is trying to negotiate OUTSIDE the negotiating room---and trying to spread fear. If he is that worried, then he should be in the negotiating room tomorrow---he might get most of what he wants---who knows?

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[skydraulic]

I wouldn't think at age 71 that Gerald would be too worried about what happens either way...(wether his life span is longer than Delta's or vice-versa)

Face to face??..the road show would be YOUR only opportunity to discuss things face to face with him would it not? You keep saying that DALPA has financial people looking at the situation too. What kind of #'s is DALPA looking at?

 

[SWA/FO]

I'm on the "Me plan" myself. It seems to work like a charm.

 

[General Lee]

Skydraulic,

Your intentions are good, but your theory is flawed. That is not how it works. You are only worth what you negotiate. Just think if they sat down for a couple hours and discussed the facts---without the cheering from one side (the management chief pilots and their families) versus the union people. That would get loud and nothing---absolutely NOTHING would get accomplished. You know that. We have certain people who are singled out to actually sit down and look over the facts and present our own facts---and try to come up with something in the middle. Those people...........are.........NEGOTIATORS. I like your intentions, though. I hope they get things done too.

Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[XRMEFLYER]

Enjoy.....

I am so enjoying this, thank you!

It is a losing battle my friend---and you and I (and even ream-me) will be on the short end eventually.

Eventually, that may be, but for our part at least it will not be given away. Just because you may like to see something happen does not mean it will happen that way. In fact I will go on record here saying that we will not only not take cuts, but will in fact finally begin to close the gap(by however small a margin) between our two worlds with our next contract. Or if not, at least in my mind and in that of many of my cohorts, we will fiddle while Rome burns.

 

[spanky2]

XRATED,
Like it or not...you and your cohorts are property of Rome....fiddle away my friend.

Salute.

 

[FDJ2]

In fact I will go on record here saying that we will not only not take cuts, but will in fact finally begin to close the gap(by however small a margin) between our two worlds with our next contract.

Yeah right. That's a good one.

 

[rjcap]

Like it or not...you and your cohorts are property of Rome....fiddle away my friend.

And Rome is burning !

 

[XRMEFLYER]

Spankenit,

I do not like it!

Order Arms!



FDJ2,

Hide and watch!

AMF

 

[spanky2]

XRLMNOP,

Regardless, man the bucket brigade, help put out the fire or burn with Rome.

At ease. I will be myself all day.

 

[XRMEFLYER]

man the bucket brigade, help put out the fire or burn with Rome.

Nope, The fire is already out on my side of town and Caligula is throwing a party so you are flying solo on this one.

As you were!

 

[FDJ2]

FDJ2,

Hide and watch!

AMF

Hide, no way, and miss out on the fun. Good luck, you'll need it.

 

[XRMEFLYER]

Good luck, you'll need it.

As will you!