Delta VS Continental ?

[General Lee]

GL-

I have said before that you do have a hard-on about regional guys and you have indeed shown it again here.

Both CAL and DAL are fine choices for different reasons, but I would choose DAL having worked for ASA. I would caution anyone for choosing one over the other citing "stability" as the reason. Remember that both have filed bankruptcy in the past and neither are above being aquired.

I have a what about regional guys? Umm, no. I am interested in this whole industry, and I will give my opinion about any part of it. I flew for a true "commuter" back in the early 90s, and I have been there.

As far as being secure at a legacy, I agree, anything can happen. But, a true merger or acquisition will not be approved by the Gov't unless it fits---a seemless type merger. There is too much local and political pressure out there, from local politicians who don't want to lose service in their communities. Look what Parker at USAir had to go through when he tried unsuccessfully to buy Delta in our BK. It didn't matter that Wall St and numerous Hedge funds wanted that merger to go through---the Gov't was against it, and so were we. It has to fit, and USAir and AWA did fit route wise (not seniority wise unfortunately), but others will not.

It will be interesting to see what happens this year, and you are right, nobody is really "safe" from a potential merger. I don't think CAL or DAL need a merger to survive this downturn, although some airlines out there may.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[General Lee]

Ya have to admit, even if he is a koolaid drinker, he is a true pro at replying back to posters who flame.

That was funny, General.

A kool-aid drinker? I don't agree with EVERYTHING Delta does. I didn't enjoy the BK, the pay cuts, the loss of the pension, and my friends getting furloughed. I didn't. Since that difficult time I have seen some good changes, a management change, a change in philosophy--INTL vs domestic flying, and I have moved up seniority wise thanks to over 2000 retirements.(senior guys pre BK for their lump sums) I think we are on the right track again, but I still want some of that pay back and the best contract we can get starting in 09. Will that happen? I hope so. I want a strong company and a great contract. Hopefully fuel prices will go down and the economy improves. I guess I am an optomist, not necessarily a kool-aid drinker. There is nothing we can do about the economy or high fuel, but we can only hope those who are "incharge" know what the heck they are doing. I think our current guys are a lot better than Leo and company back after 9-11. Will there be a merger? I don't know--but if there is one it hopefully will make us stronger, not bogg us down. You can be a glass half full guy like me, or a half empty guy like Jmoney. Although I know why he is a half empty guy--it is obvious--he is not a happy person.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[IAHERJ]

Wow!! Minus one or two little squables, this thread has actually been pretty informative and I think provided some good information to the original poster.

My .02: Both are good choices. So much can happen down the road that you just have to pick the one that best fits you now and try not to look back 5 years down the road. Congradulations on having the choice to make in the first place. I don't know where you are comming from but can tell you that you will love either choice. I worked at Continental Express and AirTran before Continental. I am by far the happiest I've ever been working where I am now. I know that our pilot group will clean up some of the messy parts of our contract and things will be a lot better as a result of it. If you come here, you won't be dissapointed. You can't go wrong with Delta either. Lots of good going around there right now...

Just enjoy the ride!!!

 

[CAL EWR B737]

Apparently out of my ass... I'm 3990 out of 4990... 80% or so....

No big deal. Actually your number is based (4990) on December staffing and since age 60 (no retirements) and a few classes hired since last months staffing we have slightly over 5000 now.

Lets fight together to get a good contract. We have a long way to go but we have to start somewhere.

 

[FDJ2]

With Delta's stock trading at 13 bucks or so I think they will seriously look at mergers.

I think all the majors are in play for possible mergers.

Also, don't let $13/share fool you.

DAL's market cap is $3.6B compared to CAL's $1.96B.
DAL's enterprise value is $9.84B compared to CAL's $4.04B. Operating margins aren't great at either airline right now, but DAL edges CAL at 5.98% vs. 4.79%.

IMHO, both are good companies.

 

[cocknbull]

Delta wants to win awards in 2008, CAL has won them many times over. Cal is a great run airline, but the pilot contract is a mess and needs to get fixed. I truly believe CAL would be more of an option if we had a west coast base. Delta is a bigger company with more options and a unified pilot group.

We have some great new aircraft arriving at CAL and a fleet plan that can be adjusted. With Delta's stock trading at 13 bucks or so I think they will seriously look at mergers.

CAL has a pension (frozen) so I think retirements will not play out the same as other airlines?

Just my thoughts. I agree with most of what has been posted here, I just do not agree that Delta has a "better" operation.

R u f-ing serious?

"Awards" that could be the dumbest comment I have ever heard.

13 dollars per share? OK what is the market cap.

If we merge everyone else will follow or die so I guess it is just a matter of time then before CAL merges.

Look at the short term and look at the long term.

Were will you be on the seniority list in 12 months and the last 10 years. Call has hired a lot of young pilots my guess is you'll retire 1,000 (Wide body Capt w/ no weekends off) at Delta we have maybe 90 pilots below 30 so you may end up 90 when you retire(777 weekends off).

 

[FlyForFood_NOT]

WoW

It's amazing how much attention this post has gotten since I posted it yesterday (over 1600 hits).
Thanks so much for all the input everyone.

The only thing I don't understand is:
If CAL is getting 15 new frame additions to the fleet, why arent they hiring more (at least 400 instead of 200)?
(15 planes x 20 crew = 300, plus at least 100 pilots retiring) <--per year

The slowly aging 767 being replaced by 787 - that came from L.K. himself from one of the new-hire meetings at CAL (as he was asked that specific question). Same for 737-9.. majority are replacing 500 first (due to small capacity), then 300 models (due to age)...
Does anyone know what the lease end dates are for CAL's 767 and 737.3.5?
60 brand new 737 at CAL is a fact, but does anyone know the exact number of 737 retiring each year?

Someone mentioned getting 767 at CAL - you won't fly that plane in the 1st 2 years. U'l only fly the 757 to Scottland/England instead (occasional other spots). U'll fly the 767 on rare sick calls only... it's a fact (so no wide body pay for a while there)

About those awards... yeah they sound corny, but there is a reason why CAL has won so many (more than Delta). Awards don't matter to us, pilots, but I always believed they show a lot when it comes to asking "will the pax come back to fly on DL/CAL again"? (or try another airline next time)

 

[flyboy006]

both good places

 

[flyboy006]

?

R u f-ing serious?

"Awards" that could be the dumbest comment I have ever heard.

13 dollars per share? OK what is the market cap.

If we merge everyone else will follow or die so I guess it is just a matter of time then before CAL merges.

Look at the short term and look at the long term.

Were will you be on the seniority list in 12 months and the last 10 years. Call has hired a lot of young pilots my guess is you'll retire 1,000 (Wide body Capt w/ no weekends off) at Delta we have maybe 90 pilots below 30 so you may end up 90 when you retire(777 weekends off).

HUH? What does this mean

 

[HHH]

WoW

It's amazing how much attention this post has gotten since I posted it yesterday (over 1600 hits).
Thanks so much for all the input everyone.

The only thing I don't understand is:
If CAL is getting 15 new frame additions to the fleet, why arent they hiring more (at least 400 instead of 200)?
(15 planes x 20 crew = 300, plus at least 100 pilots retiring) <--per year

The slowly aging 767 being replaced by 787 - that came from L.K. himself from one of the new-hire meetings at CAL (as he was asked that specific question). Same for 737-9.. majority are replacing 500 first (due to small capacity), then 300 models (due to age)...
Does anyone know what the lease end dates are for CAL's 767 and 737.3.5?
60 brand new 737 at CAL is a fact, but does anyone know the exact number of 737 retiring each year?

Someone mentioned getting 767 at CAL - you won't fly that plane in the 1st 2 years. U'l only fly the 757 to Scottland/England instead (occasional other spots). U'll fly the 767 on rare sick calls only... it's a fact (so no wide body pay for a while there)

The 200 is from now until the end of May...

 

[FlyForFood_NOT]

200 untill May only at CAL?

Does that mean that the 12..8..12..8 per month is old news already?

 

[flyboy006]

looks like everyone may be dropping numbers.. DAL showed some 625 this year up until a day ago with 35 every 2 weeks now it just says 500 for 2008.. CALs just says 8 a week

 

[cocknbull]

looks like everyone may be dropping numbers.. DAL showed some 625 this year up until a day ago with 35 every 2 weeks now it just says 500 for 2008.. CALs just says 8 a week

I haven't heard 500. Are you posting what you have heard or is there a source?

My comment on awards is that you should always take them with a grain of salt. Continental has about as much business winning "best place to work" as LBJ did receiving the silver star. I hear guys in the hotel crew rooms that have only been at CAL for 8 months talking about "Shutting the place down." It happens every time, and when they ask me about Delta, I tell them I wouldn't want to be anywhere else.

Trans States use to win that maintenance award every year. Come on dude. WTF

How do you survive in Europe on $29,000 per year? I could barely survive in STL on 27K.

 

[flyboy006]

?

I haven't heard 500. Are you posting what you have heard or is there a source?

Up until yesterday on APC under DAL it showed hiring 625 and it said 35 every two weeks. Now today it shows 500 for 2008 and it doesnt say 35 every two weeks anymore. As for CAL up till maybe a week ago it said 16 a week or something like that. Now it says 8 a week!

Right from APC:

CAL:
Hiring. Approx. 8 new-hires every week.

DAL:
Hiring. Hiring 500 in 2008. Using www.airlineapps.com to accept applications.

Delta jobs page.

 

[Furloughed80]

If CAL is getting 15 new frame additions to the fleet, why arent they hiring more (at least 400 instead of 200)?
(15 planes x 20 crew = 300, plus at least 100 pilots retiring) <--per year

Again, no one is retiring anymore. The last I heard CAL revised its hiring numbers down from 500 to 250. That coincides with the increase in airframes.

The slowly aging 767 being replaced by 787 - that came from L.K. himself from one of the new-hire meetings at CAL (as he was asked that specific question).

Almost every CAL rumor is preceded with "LK said this at a new hire meeting..." CAL always maintains flexibility in its fleet plan. They are currently very short on WB aircraft. They can't let go of the 767s as the 787s come in. The 787s are to be used on numerous new routes. There was an article about this a few weeks ago. If I remember, the only routes mentioned were IAH-DXB and EWR to various destinations in India. I have seen nothing official on the retirement of the 767 fleet.

60 brand new 737 at CAL is a fact, but does anyone know the exact number of 737 retiring each year?

Yes, approximately 30 new 737s coupled with the retirement of about 15 old 737s. Again, that could change at any time.

It would be great if CAL actually does grow for the next five years. At that point the retirements would kick in again. Essentially, you could be looking at a decade of continuous movement. But again, its impossible to predict anything that far in the future.

Both are great airlines. Who knows how things will turn out.