Delta Update....

[Oakum_Boy]

Yeah, I've had to "take it" more than once on a jumpseat and I'd provide a date and flight number, but that wouldn't be smart.

1. "I think there are too many RJ's, we always have to hold for them."
- my fault?

2. "You're lucky you're not Comair, otherwise I'd give you an earful."
-By the grace of god I'm not?

3. "So you're in negotiations? Yes, we've been there for over two years. Well, I don't think you're going to get much, you need to share in the pain."
-Yeah.

4. "Do you know any members of the RJDC? No, you know I'm not really into their stuff. Well, if you do, you can tell them to kiss my arse. That's from a Delta pilot."
-Ok, I think that will change their minds...

5. "There's a reason those guys have been with the regionals for that long. Well sir, I think some of them probably don't have a degree. You don't think those guys applied at Delta? "
-Well, I actually don't give a sh1t.

Reading this, it sounds made up, but I swear this stuff was said. On the flip side, I have been offered a ride with some great guys there. All are welcome on my jumpseat, but I won't presume to tell them anything. Thanks to all those who have been cordial and professional.

 

[General Lee]

Dave,


Man alive, you are the a$$hole here. I have been only supportive, and I don't even know if you are a furlough. I don't have to explain anything to you---you are a very angry man---and you probably hate yourself. Look, you are always mad, always blaming everyone else. If you were hired at Delta and got furloughed, that is unfortunate. That is also called seniority, and there isn't much you can do about it. Ever fly with an Ex-Western Airlines pilot? They have told me that they got nothing when they were furloughed. Nothing. Then they compared what you guys were getting, and it is a world of difference. You get free Cobra if you need it, and you get an offer to fly as an FO at one of our regionals, which is better than nothing. Yet, you are angry at the world. It sure isn't my JOB to make you happy, somehow you must do that yourself. I support our furloughs a few ways, via Cobra payments, via furlough support programs, and secret Santa type stuff. What else can I do for you? I really don't want to do much else. Have a great one.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[General Lee]

Oakum Boy,


I personally have never used the jumpseat to intimidate any DCI pilot, and I haven't seen Captains do it either. Sure, there may be some guys like that out there, but I haven't seen it. I have also used the ASA jumpseat to PFN a few times and have been treated very well. I always do the same.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[DaveGriffin]

Dave,


Man alive, you are the a$$hole here. I have been only supportive, and I don't even know if you are a furlough. I don't have to explain anything to you---you are a very angry man---and you probably hate yourself. Look, you are always mad, always blaming everyone else. If you were hired at Delta and got furloughed, that is unfortunate. That is also called seniority, and there isn't much you can do about it. Ever fly with an Ex-Western Airlines pilot? They have told me that they got nothing when they were furloughed. Nothing. Then they compared what you guys were getting, and it is a world of difference. You get free Cobra if you need it, and you get an offer to fly as an FO at one of our regionals, which is better than nothing. Yet, you are angry at the world. It sure isn't my JOB to make you happy, somehow you must do that yourself. I support our furloughs a few ways, via Cobra payments, via furlough support programs, and secret Santa type stuff. What else can I do for you? I really don't want to do much else. Have a great one.


Bye Bye--General Lee

GL;

Keep spouting your BS, you hypocritical, self-serving dip wad.

The furloughees get nailed after the attacks of 9/11.
The seniors get the best 3 years of their careers after the attacks of 9/11.
It pays for you not to rock-the-boat on that deal.

The retirees get to secure their cash value retirement.
And after that he retirees get to come back as contractors.

Malone says the Juniors/Furloghees will be a high priority in any TA negotiations.
It DOESN'T happen. The TA drills the Juniors/Furloghees a little bit deeper.

You tell me what a great job you have done.
You can't, because it is ALL a stinking pile of BS.

The top-third 'Greedy Bastards' and the middle-third 'Greedy Bastard Wannabees" only look out for themselves.

You have a great one, you certainly worked hard to get it on the backs of the fuloughees. (Too bad they can't vote)

 

[Les Paul]

GL;

Keep spouting your BS, you hypocritical, self-serving dip wad.

The furloughees get nailed after the attacks of 9/11.
The seniors get the best 3 years of their careers after the attacks of 9/11.
It pays for you not to rock-the-boat on that deal.

The retirees get to secure their cash value retirement.
And after that he retirees get to come back as contractors.

Malone says the Juniors/Furloghees will be a high priority in any TA negotiations.
It DOESN'T happen. The TA drills the Juniors/Furloghees a little bit deeper.

You tell me what a great job you have done.
You can't, because it is ALL a stinking pile of BS.

The top-third 'Greedy Bastards' and the middle-third 'Greedy Bastard Wannabees" only look out for themselves.

You have a great one, you certainly worked hard to get it on the backs of the fuloughees. (Too bad they can't vote)

Are you REALLY that dense??

You can lash out all you want, but the fact is that regardless of what YOU want, you are not going to get it. So go ahead and throw yourself on the floor, and sit crying like a little boy. And while your in the middle of your little temper tantrum, keep blaming everyone around you, for it changes NOTHING and shows everyone what a unknowledgeable punk you are.

And please keep this thread and your crybaby posts in mind years down the road when you approach retirement. I'll put my money that your little "poor pititful me" attitude changes somewhat.

Les Paul

 

[General Lee]

I can't believe I was called a "dip wad" by good ole Dave Griffin. Wow, it's been a while since I was called that---maybe in third grade.


I think it is your game trying to lure me back into this with you. I won't do it. I have done a lot for the furloughs and I wish all of them a quick return to Delta as soon as possible. I voted for the TA to try to ensure a place for them to come back to, and I accept a pay cut.

Take care Dave.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[thruthemurk]

General Lee,


<< I voted for the TA to try to ensure a place for them to come back to, and I accept a pay cut.>>

B%llsht. You voted yes because your thought it was necessary to preserve your job.

Are you telling me if you thought a no vote would have kept your pay at its old level and the furloughees never come back you wouldn't have done it? give me a break.

 

[General Lee]

truthemurk,


Look here "dip wad", there are many reasons I voted yes. One reason was to try to keep this great airline going. Is that soooo wrong? I guess you wouldn't? Yeah, ok. I also voted yes because it would allow more time for our senior guys to bail out because a living company can actually pay for their pensions. If a lot of them left, a lot more of our recalls would be called back. So, a vote yes would actually help bring back some of our furloughs sooner. A chap 11 might ground some of the fleet potentially, and that wouldn't help anyone out except bankruptcy attorneys.

And another thing, maybe you haven't read my posts from the past, but this furlough thing bothers me a lot. I actually have a lot of friends that are furloughed, and I get to hear their sad stories often. There isn't much I can do but offer support and go along with the ALPA furlough programs and Cobra etc. I do care about them and I feel very lucky that I wasn't in that position. Don't tell me what I feel or how I would have or could have voted. I don't really care what you or Dave Griffin think. I enjoy my job and I wish those furloughs could be back enjoying it too. I hope they come back soon---and that isn't Bull$%it.



Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[asaflyer]

Oakumboy,


Maybe you didn't see the memo put out by John Malone and the Dalpa MEC which stated that they did nothing in the negotiations to lower your pay. But, you will probably lose pay coming up here if you want any new growth, and that will be up to you, without blaming Dalpa. Your MEC will have to decide that one. And, maybe you would not have had to pay that extra money on your small salary had you actually negotiated it---instead you for got about it and scope and went for the money, which will eventually be reduced. Who was you lead negotiator on that last contract? And, if you don't like ALPA and the strike benefits you DID receive during your strike, then get another union. The Teamsters have done wonders for Netjets---just ask any of them.


Tony C,

My "almost" can be used both up and down from that $4000 number. By using that word, I can be high or low.


Bye Bye--General Lee

The reason DALPA didn't negotiate a pay cut for ASA is because they can't, but there is no doubt they would if they could, I don't care what Malone would have you believe. We have our own contract with our own company (remember, we are a seperate company according to all the DAL pilots. Atleast, until there is some pain to share). The only thing DALPA could do is ask DAL to ask ASA to ask us to come to the table. And we already proved we won't cave back during the RFP issue. We hope ml grows and the pilots all come back to work soon, so much so that we're not willing to sacrifice pay for our own growth.

PS: asaflyer, I'll log you out of the ops computer now.

 

[michael707767]

The reason DALPA didn't negotiate a pay cut for ASA is because they can't, but there is no doubt they would if they could, I don't care what Malone would have you believe.

if it were anyone but Malone, I may agree with you. But, you are wrong. Malone has felt this way going way back, even before he was MEC chairman. And he is right. ASA taking a pay cut does nothing for the Delta pilots but increase pressure to transfer our jobs.

 

[737 Pylt]

Are you REALLY that dense??

You can lash out all you want, but the fact is that regardless of what YOU want, you are not going to get it. So go ahead and throw yourself on the floor, and sit crying like a little boy. And while your in the middle of your little temper tantrum, keep blaming everyone around you, for it changes NOTHING and shows everyone what a unknowledgeable punk you are.

And please keep this thread and your crybaby posts in mind years down the road when you approach retirement. I'll put my money that your little "poor pititful me" attitude changes somewhat.

Les Paul

Les:
You hit the nail on the head. His language alone says it all. Its real easy to point fingers and blame everyone else and cry "always me." Maybe when he's been around long enough to even be "off probation," he'll understand more.
737

 

[MetroSheriff]

Yeah, I've had to "take it" more than once on a jumpseat and I'd provide a date and flight number, but that wouldn't be smart.

1. "I think there are too many RJ's, we always have to hold for them."
- my fault?

2. "You're lucky you're not Comair, otherwise I'd give you an earful."
-By the grace of god I'm not?

3. "So you're in negotiations? Yes, we've been there for over two years. Well, I don't think you're going to get much, you need to share in the pain."
-Yeah.

4. "Do you know any members of the RJDC? No, you know I'm not really into their stuff. Well, if you do, you can tell them to kiss my arse. That's from a Delta pilot."
-Ok, I think that will change their minds...

5. "There's a reason those guys have been with the regionals for that long. Well sir, I think some of them probably don't have a degree. You don't think those guys applied at Delta? "
-Well, I actually don't give a sh1t.

Reading this, it sounds made up, but I swear this stuff was said. On the flip side, I have been offered a ride with some great guys there. All are welcome on my jumpseat, but I won't presume to tell them anything. Thanks to all those who have been cordial and professional.

In the interest of being "Fair and Balanced" tm you should post some of the rediculous sh1t that you hear in the cockpit from our guys about mainline. It goes both ways. We certainly have our share of head cases too.

Unfortunately, it is the vocal morons on BOTH sides that get most of the press.

Perhaps one day the kindergarten stuff will stop, but I kinda' doubt it.

 

[DaveGriffin]

I can't believe I was called a "dip wad" by good ole Dave Griffin. Wow, it's been a while since I was called that---maybe in third grade.


I think it is your game trying to lure me back into this with you. I won't do it. I have done a lot for the furloughs and I wish all of them a quick return to Delta as soon as possible. I voted for the TA to try to ensure a place for them to come back to, and I accept a pay cut.

Take care Dave.


Bye Bye--General Lee

GL;



Do you like 'numb nuts' better than 'dip wad'?



There was little choice but to vote for the TA, if the primary goal is to protect pension funds. Why not admit that is your real goal, NOT making sure that there are future jobs to which the furloughees can return.



The issue here is the seniors and seniors-to-be doing absolutely of substance nothing for the juniors and furloughees (spare me the Secret Santa and Cobra baloney).



They talk a big game but when it came down to it, when the going gets tough, it's everyman for themselves and sh*t rolls downhill, right to the bottom of the seniority list.



What jacks my GrandAm is your defensive posturing playing the benevolent and mighty defender of the furloughees. How dumb do you think they are? They recognize you and the others are all BS double talk and no action.

 

[Dennis Miller]

The issue here is the seniors and seniors-to-be doing absolutely of substance nothing for the juniors

Sounds like High School. Quick don't step on the Trojan head or you'll have to scrub it with a touthbrush!

 

[michael707767]

GL;
There was little choice but to vote for the TA, if the primary goal is to protect pension funds. Why not admit that is your real goal, NOT making sure that there are future jobs to which the furloughees can return.

I tend to agree with you. This TA, though its a s**t sandwich for everyone, certainly favors the senior pilots at Delta. For that and other reasons, I voted no. But the biggest reason was I think this TA not only ensures the furloughees will not be recalled, but that we will have more furloughs.

 

[DaveGriffin]

Hypocrisy at its finest

I tend to agree with you. This TA, though its a s**t sandwich for everyone, certainly favors the senior pilots at Delta. For that and other reasons, I voted no. But the biggest reason was I think this TA not only ensures the furloughees will not be recalled, but that we will have more furloughs.

You are right Mike. The “I don’t care about anyone but me” comment of retiree Davis below says it all. I feel so bad he lost sleep worrying about his pension during the negotiations. It really is a shame that the process seems broken to Davis because it doesn’t focus enough on his peace-of-mind.

The retirees and the seniors don’t care who they have to step on to secure what's left of the pension funds. The furloughees had NOTHING before the TA, and have EVEN LESS after.

http://www.ajc.com/business/content/business/delta/1004/28deltadeal.html
The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
Published on: 10/28/04

Dave Davis, a former Boeing 777 captain who retired from Delta in 2003, said the deal could help clear up a shadow over his and other retirees' pensions.

Davis, 57, estimates he could lose up to $75,000 a year in pension payments if Delta filed for bankruptcy and terminated the pilots' pension plan.

"I'm glad that the pilots reached an agreement. I'm disappointed that it took so long," said Davis, who lives in Fayetteville. "There's something wrong with the process that it has to come down to the eleventh hour to reach an agreement."

 

[Dizel8]

So General, in return for you paycut, did you negotiate multiple jumpseaters on Mother Delta?

 

[FDJ2]

So General, in return for you paycut, did you negotiate multiple jumpseaters on Mother Delta?

PMFJI'

Amend​

Section 24 D. 1. to read:


​

1. Unless superseded by law or regulation, a pilot on active payroll status, a furloughed pilot (other than a pilot who has bypassed recall), and an airman employed by an airline with whom the Company maintains a reciprocal jumpseat usage arrangement will be afforded use of the cockpit jumpseat for personal travel in accordance with rules and procedures established by the Company.​

The Company will implement CASS as soon as practicable, but not later than 9 months after DOS.​

​

Execute letter from Kolshak to Malone regarding flowback with OAL carriers.​

 

[IAHERJ]

That doesn't answer the question regarding multiple jumpseats. Will it still be only 1 offline or two if the aircraft has two? I don't like our $25.00 charge for additional jumpseat riders at AirTran however I'd be more than willing to pay Delta the same amount to get home. I've been bumped twice this month on aircraft that have had over 40 open seats in the back. It is frustrating. I'd like to see AirTran stop the charging for all airlines that let us ride unlimited like SWA, US Airways etc.

 

[FDJ2]

That doesn't answer the question regarding multiple jumpseats.

If I understand the Kolshak/Malone letter correctly, I believe that the "flowback" agreement I mentioned allows multiple jumpseaters in the cabin. Additionally Delta will implement CASS.