Delta to look differnt in 1 year

[AAflyer]

I do not care much for Freud, a little sexual for my taste, ie "little guys always getting screwed".

As for thinking this is the only business getting screwed right now, where the heck did I mention that? This is an aviation website is it not? While I feel for the people that have worked for Enron,Tyco,WorldCom, and MCI, this message board is about OUR Profession, so let's keep it in aviation.

So your neighbors not working. Are they trying to find work in their respective field or trying to find work. There are thousands in this aviation industry swallowing their pride and working at Home Depot, working as real estate agents, loan officers, teachers. If I lost my job in aviation and couldn't find another right away I would be at TGIFs bar-tending. So what you are telling me is that they can not find one single job? BS is called, pick up the classifieds.

I would love to pick a job which I could call my own shots, like starting up a little 135 op, as for another career, no thanks. I am not lucky because of doing what I love. This is what I wanted to do, and I worked to do it. Many of us have choices, not ALL, but many.

As for collective bargaining pensions, you sound like a mangement stooge. That is what we agreed to, why was more not set aside during the years these companies made billions in revenue!! Fancy cars and golf memberships for execs, all types of monies pi$$ed away while many other companies saved and invested, but not our industry, we live for the moment.

When the industry was turning downwards they were screwing the business passenger over, still using 14-15 different fare structures, basically going forward like they thought they always could. When their business plans no longer worked, who was the enemy, THE EMPLOYEES! Suddenly while they protected their pensions, set up profit plans for themselves we as employee groups were labeled as what was wrong....we were ALL overpaid, especially those greedy pilots. What did Bonner do with the Usairways pensions, he ordered a SH!T LOAD of RJS with them, and then offered them a job in those RJS at horrible pay rates with no pensions. You probably find this acceptable.

I guess we still make too much money, I know this because the airlines are still bleeding money. Quick, another round of paycuts!!! and use that money to fincance more RJS because that is the only thing I know how do to help me get out of this mess. Interesting that every profitable airline in the US does not get feed from a regional or express carrier, all the ones that do get feed are loosing their A$$!!!.

Narcissm, that is a funny one. How about honoring the contract they signed, I have too. If things need to be changed, let's do it now as a TEAM, let's figure another way. Cathay Pacific allows you to self direct your own retirment from a check you are cut based on a percentage of your W2s. No, that would be too easy, let's spend more money and lobby to have your pension cut, let's spend more money on attorneys that a re looking for loop holes to get rid of retiement benefits. That is what a Harvard MBA or Wharton MBA gets you, the ability to play god. You think pilots have an ego?? Son, you haven't seen anything yet, step into a board room full of airline CEOs.

AAflyer

 

[lowecur]

Narcissm, that is a funny one. How about honoring the contract they signed, I have too. If things need to be changed, let's do it now as a TEAM, let's figure another way. Cathay Pacific allows you to self direct your own retirment from a check you are cut based on a percentage of your W2s. No, that would be too easy, let's spend more money and lobby to have your pension cut, let's spend more money on attorneys that a re looking for loop holes to get rid of retiement benefits. That is what a Harvard MBA or Wharton MBA gets you, the ability to play god. You think pilots have an ego?? Son, you haven't seen anything yet, step into a board room full of airline CEOs.

AAflyer

Because of a history of distrust between pilots and mgt, all the wrongs will never be addressed. The people that run an airline are either hired by the board if it's a public company, or if it's private - they had the balls to invest in an industry that is flush with failure. As an employee of a public company, you never really had a choice about who would run your company, nor I doubt you would have the expertise on how to pick those people. Many are in it to see how many stock options they can gather, and leave as they flush the toilet. Arpey seems to understand the relationship between mgt and employees better than most. Time will tell if he can pull it off.

On the subject of the E-jet, yes I do find it acceptable. Bronner is a smart man, but it still will probably not be enough to keep UAIR out of bankruptcy a 2nd time. The Airline Pilot Business is no different than any other business. It's all supply and demand. While the schools and military were turning loose thousands on this profession, the legacy business model ran into a cement wall. Add these two things together and with the advent of more LCC's, and you have a receipe for "the race to the bottom." The final product is still in the oven, and when it's done cooking, a new cycle will be on the horizon........ there always is.

 

[lowecur]

If DL files for 11

Now you know why all the pilots are taking early retirement.

Q: What would happen to Delta's defined benefit pension plan?
A: Retirees getting funded benefits would continue to do so. Active employees wouldn't lose vested benefits. Should Delta later terminate its pension plan as part of its restructuring, the plan still would be obligated to pay all vested and funded benefits. If the plan didn't have enough assets, the federal Pension Benefit Guaranty Corp. would guarantee up to $44,386.32 a year per employee. Experts say there is no advantage in rushing to file for retirement before a bankruptcy filing. Pilots have a separate pension plan that allows them to take half of their benefits in cash when they retire. The PBGC guarantee would cover only a fraction of most pilots' pension benefits, and pilots' option to take a lump sum also would likely end if Delta filed for bankruptcy. Hundreds of senior Delta pilots have been retiring early over the past year.

 

[General Lee]

Lowecur,


Thanks for all of of your great insight into Delta retirement. One thing that you have clearly missed is the real reason---rising interest rates. Our retirement is based off of the thirty year treasury note, and the GATT rate. As interest rates rise (as they have been doing for the past few months)--your lump sum gets smaller. The difference between retiring June 1st and August 1st was around $75,000 difference for guys with more than 25 years of service. Another 50-100 guys will probably retire on July 1st also--with the difference being about $40,000. It looks like higher interest rates will be around for awhile, and with impending pay cuts---it was the right time for many. Thank you for your dedication on this issue.

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[AAflyer]

Lowecur,

Well, we agree on one thing. There is a new product being cooked, and it is a race to the bottom. The funny thing is many think that United not getting the loan is good news (they will say that it is no disrespect the employees), but UAL will go away and the industry will be better off.

Wrong, the fact that UAL did not get the loan will mean they may get other financing from outside sources, which will surly ask for more wage conscessions or some type of give back on the pension. This is bad for all airline pilots!! Look how long it took other carriers to become extinct. YEARS!!

In a few years you may not be able to discern the difference in pay between LCC and Legacy carriers. Infact as we speak AAs labor CASMS are pennies from SWAs. To bad we are so top heavy.

The rest we will have to agree to disagree on.

Regards,

AA

 

[Otto]

Lowecur,

Well, we agree on one thing. There is a new product being cooked, and it is a race to the bottom. In a few years you may not be able to discern the difference in pay between LCC and Legacy carriers. Infact as we speak AAs labor CASMS are pennies from SWAs. To bad we are so top heavy.

As much as I hate to see what is happening to the legacy carriers and as much we pilots want to blame each other, this is all simply one big market correction. Capitalism sucks doesn't it?!

 

[enigma]

. Capitalism sucks doesn't it?!

OK dude, name a better system.

enigma

 

[Otto]

OK dude, name a better system.

enigma

Enigma,
I'm just using a little sarcasm there buddy. The point I was trying to make is that the pilot labor market is correcting itself after years of artificial tinkering by ALPA. Most pilots say they believe in the free market but seem dumbfounded when their $200,000 a year salary is threatened by the thousands of pilots wanting their job. Someone earlier said the legacy carriers pay may soon equal the LCC's...well maybe thats not such a bad thing. A Southwest captain makes what, $150,000+ a year? Most Americans would think thats a d*mn good job. Wouldn't it be worth a little less in pay to have some stability with your company? Some will say it's guys with attitudes like mine that are allowing this to happen but I wish it wasn't. I'd love for things to be the way they were during regulation but government giveth and the government taketh away. That's the reality.
O

 

[crjdxr]

We don't have or own meteorologist, but the dispatchers do have a pretty good idea of what they're doing.

Many humble thanks!
And may I add that the pilots have a pretty good idea of what they are doing too!

 

[LiveFreeorDie]

The reason the mainline or legacy carriers are going down the tubes is because they can not SUPPLY a product to the market at a PRICE the consumer DEMANDS.

The legacy carriers have been saddling them selves with debt in the form of leases and loans which drive up the COST of their product even further.

Most passengers don't give a rat's ass if they fly an 80 seat or a 250 seat jet. All they care about is price and maybe a bit about service after price.

United and US Air are the worst managed of the majors, and the gov't bail out of these airlines has hurt the well managed airlines the most. So get the gov't as much out of the business as possible and let the strongest survive.

And if you don't like it move to a SOCIALIST state, say France or maybe Cuba. I'm sure you will be much happier there.


And enough of the boo hoo for me I can't be as rich or have as good benefits as the industry once paid. Stop belly aching and act like a man. Go get a job or better yet create one and be happy you live in the land of opportunity!

Happy 4th

 

[lowecur]

.

Most passengers don't give a rat's ass if they fly an 80 seat or a 250 seat jet. All they care about is price and maybe a bit about service after price.

You're right about the number of seats, but wrong about "a bit of service." It is my feeling that when a customer has a choice of flying B6 or WN on the same route, B6 will win the majority of the time. The TV's and assigned seating has it's advantages over basically a "better frequent flyer program." By 2007, these two "leaders" of the LCC class will begin to cross paths more frequently, and a clearer picture will be available as to who has the better mousetrap.

 

[surplus1]

Many humble thanks!

You are most welcome and deserving. You can be confident in knowing that I'm not the only Captain that appreciates your good work. There are many, many more like me.

And may I add that the pilots have a pretty good idea of what they are doing too!

Than YOU. I hope that most of us can live up to your expectations. We are all a part of the same team.


Are you with CMR?

 

[crjdxr]

Are you with CMR?

That I am, sir. Next time you get a chance throw a hand in the air when you walk by the fishbowl/finished basement. I promise to wave back if I'm not too busy trying to figure out where to put my ATL diversions.

 

[AFELLOWAVIATOR]

Afellowaviator,

Please read the name on the side of your plane. It is "Delta Connection." We are not "Delta Connection CONNECTION." Unfortunately your side has been given a lot of our old mainline routes (727 and other) when we had to park planes, and now the pax are back and they have to fly RJs on 2 or 2 1/2 hour flights---something Grinstein said he disliked. Yes, we all carry Delta passengers--but the goal is to get them to the hub and then load them on the biggest plane possible to gain the most revenue---and fly them to far away lands--like Europe of South America---where we can make the most money. And, no--I am NOT management....


Bye Bye--General Lee[/QUOTE]What I do and what an MD88 pilot does for Delta are the same. We feed the hub. I fail to understand why you would argue this fact. When a 777 pulls up to CVG from one of those "far away lands", who do you think takes those people on to their final destinations? Mainline narrow bodies, wide bodies, and Regional Jets.
So, like I said, we all do the same thing. If I am wrong, please explain......

Oh, and as far as the Delta Connection thing. They have to call us something. Good luck in your negotiations. The way you talk it sounds like you guys will have "G" begging at your feet.