Delta to buy Jetblue?

[AKAAB]

Delta would just pay the poison pill provision to the JB pilots and use their own pilots.

 

[elag777]

keep smoking the weed guys! this is getting good...

 

[shadesofBS]

Delta would just pay the poison pill provision to the JB pilots and use their own pilots.

You're right, and at this point in my career, I would take the pay off, sell my shares, and go find a career with some meaning.
I would love nothing more than to quit serving french fries and milk shakes to the flying public.
To do it on Delta's dime would be the icing on the cake.

 

[indytestdude]

Lets see all Delta would have to do was let every JB guy stay in place until their Five (5) year contract ran out...........

 

[My Man SMITH!]

Keep dreamin' guys, I mean come on. Delta is still in bankruptcy, do you honestly think they are thinking of acquiring another carrier before getting itself reorganized. I think the timing of this rumor is just a little off. Nothin' wrong with throwing out ideas on how the whole acquisition would go down though. It's pretty entertaining.

 

[737 Pylt]

Keep dreamin' guys, I mean come on. Delta is still in bankruptcy, do you honestly think they are thinking of acquiring another carrier before getting itself reorganized. I think the timing of this rumor is just a little off. Nothin' wrong with throwing out ideas on how the whole acquisition would go down though. It's pretty entertaining.

I agree, but you have to learn that in this business, anything is possible. Everyone thought the US Airways name was dead and buried, and then look, they tried a $9 Billion hostile takeover of DL.....
Again, anything is possible in this miserable business!

737

 

[Heavy Set]

Keep dreamin' guys, I mean come on. Delta is still in bankruptcy, do you honestly think they are thinking of acquiring another carrier before getting itself reorganized. I think the timing of this rumor is just a little off. Nothin' wrong with throwing out ideas on how the whole acquisition would go down though. It's pretty entertaining.

The creditor committee forced Delta to elect some board members that were not against mergers or aquistions, and after BK is over, a lot of money will be raised with the offering of stock. Those creditors want to maximize the value of their stock they will be getting, and a stronger product will do just that.

 

[8vATE]

ITS A FACT.
On the record numerous times from the President of JetBlue.
It was in fact a major sticking point of the negotiations. The Port Authority wanted to help finance the new JetBlue terminal and ensure it could accomodate widebody aircraft.

JetBlue specifically wanted it designed for the A320 and smaller aircraft to maximize efficiency and also to make it the proverbial "poison pill" for a takeover/acquistion. These guys know they have some of the most valuable real estate in the country... and they want to keep it. Yes, the terminal could accomodate widebodies but it would be in the hundreds of millions to do so apparently. This topic came up at the pilot meeting last week so its a hot topic as is modifying the company's ability to resist takeovers. There was a Board of Directors meeting two days before. They see what's happening out there ala Midwest and the terminal and order book with Airbus and Embraer is a commodity right now.

 

[Heavy Set]

ITS A FACT.
On the record numerous times from the President of JetBlue.
It was in fact a major sticking point of the negotiations. The Port Authority wanted to help finance the new JetBlue terminal and ensure it could accomodate widebody aircraft.

JetBlue specifically wanted it designed for the A320 and smaller aircraft to maximize efficiency and also to make it the proverbial "poison pill" for a takeover/acquistion. These guys know they have some of the most valuable real estate in the country... and they want to keep it. Yes, the terminal could accomodate widebodies but it would be in the hundreds of millions to do so apparently. This topic came up at the pilot meeting last week so its a hot topic as is modifying the company's ability to resist takeovers. There was a Board of Directors meeting two days before. They see what's happening out there ala Midwest and the terminal and order book with Airbus and Embraer is a commodity right now.

Delta could still have their widebodies at their current terminal, and then ditch the commuter terminal and old Song gates. The Airtrain could connect domestic passengers from the new Jetblue terminal and the International connects over at the Delta terminal. That would be simple.

 

[IronCityBlue]

mental, um, massaging...

IS that what the AWA guys are saying to the USAir East guys? If you don't have the same union or merger policy, it could be open to anything. I think if it happened, it would go DOH and then subsequent bids would move people on top of the JBU pilots. But, they could possibly bid out of NYC to the other hubs and different aircraft to get away from Ozone Park and Yonkers. It would be a win win probably. This is all rumor, anyway.


Bye Bye--General Lee

Its a well known fact that merger committees reference FI posts similar to lawyers and judges referencing case law, so I will add (more) of my 2 cents. :nuts:

If this were to go down, I think DOH/YOS for equipment bidding, furlough protection, pass benefits, yearly pay step, vacation and sick accrual and all sorts of those things would be both fair and prudent to the company and all pilots involved. Naturally a fence of a year or two would be put in place to prevent a mass cross bidding. Then anyone could bid whatever they could hold, but not bump anyone out of their seat. For example, the General could bid 320 Capt, but only after the freeze/fence and only if there was an vacancy bid. This would minimize training costs to the company while providing fair and equitable opportunities to both pilot groups.

Which is exactly why it would probably never happen.

By the way, taking the AirTrain between terminals is a pretty big clusterbunk. International connections are JFK's crown jewel for Delta. Trying to do that would add far more hassle to the customer than the new terminal would benefit them.

 

[AA717driver]

Delta could still have their widebodies at their current terminal, and then ditch the commuter terminal and old Song gates. The Airtrain could connect domestic passengers from the new Jetblue terminal and the International connects over at the Delta terminal. That would be simple.

I think pax would do that shuffle exactly once. I would hope AA's marketing dept. would beat them up with their new terminal--no train ride to your next flight. TC

 

[Heavy Set]

I think pax would do that shuffle exactly once. I would hope AA's marketing dept. would beat them up with their new terminal--no train ride to your next flight. TC

Have you guys ever walked from the Delta commuter area at JFK to on of the single digit gates? It seemed like a mile when I did it. Passengers are already in for a long walk now anyway, so using the Airtrain probably wouldn't be a big deal to future passengers. And, if they are willing to pay big bucks to buy Jetblue, I have a feeling Delta and the Port Authority could spend some more money fixing the gates to fit some widebodies. Poison pill my arse!

 

[Smoking Man]

Lets see all Delta would have to do was let every JB guy stay in place until their Five (5) year contract ran out...........

This would be true if they did not automatically renew.

T-5 is for narrow bodies and the construction is way too far gone to change that. Although current negotations on our home now is to have T6 smashed and this would leave the ability to expand T5's wing to additional gates. I would venture to guess that the wing would be able to accomidate larger aircraft.

 

[LandGreen]

ITS A FACT.
On the record numerous times from the President of JetBlue.
It was in fact a major sticking point of the negotiations. The Port Authority wanted to help finance the new JetBlue terminal and ensure it could accomodate widebody aircraft.

JetBlue specifically wanted it designed for the A320 and smaller aircraft to maximize efficiency and also to make it the proverbial "poison pill" for a takeover/acquistion. These guys know they have some of the most valuable real estate in the country... and they want to keep it. Yes, the terminal could accomodate widebodies but it would be in the hundreds of millions to do so apparently. This topic came up at the pilot meeting last week so its a hot topic as is modifying the company's ability to resist takeovers. There was a Board of Directors meeting two days before. They see what's happening out there ala Midwest and the terminal and order book with Airbus and Embraer is a commodity right now.

That is ridiculous! ESPECIALLY if management is saying it! Come ON!!! Don't you think they know that most JB pilots want to unionize now, and one of the main reasons is takeover protection?? By saying "... it will cost hundreds of millions to reconfigure and that should be the bitter poison pill to keep JB from being gobbled up...no need for better language and ESPECIALLY no need for a union." Are you actually going to believe that? If you were the PA of NY would you finance something like that without a backup plan. I don't think anybody is that stupid...but then again?

 

[LandGreen]

Its a well known fact that merger committees reference FI posts similar to lawyers and judges referencing case law, so I will add (more) of my 2 cents. :nuts:

If this were to go down, I think DOH/YOS for equipment bidding, furlough protection, pass benefits, yearly pay step, vacation and sick accrual and all sorts of those things would be both fair and prudent to the company and all pilots involved. Naturally a fence of a year or two would be put in place to prevent a mass cross bidding. Then anyone could bid whatever they could hold, but not bump anyone out of their seat. For example, the General could bid 320 Capt, but only after the freeze/fence and only if there was an vacancy bid. This would minimize training costs to the company while providing fair and equitable opportunities to both pilot groups.

Which is exactly why it would probably never happen.

By the way, taking the AirTrain between terminals is a pretty big clusterbunk. International connections are JFK's crown jewel for Delta. Trying to do that would add far more hassle to the customer than the new terminal would benefit them.

This sounds great....BUT it could only happen if there is an ALPA contract in place at JetBlue. Without it....please refer to the history of TWA, Reno Air, etc etc. Just an opinion~

 

[Hair-on-Fire]

Don't you think they know that most JB pilots want to unionize now, and one of the main reasons is takeover protection?

Outside the 10 guys that post on bluepilots.com over and over and over; I don't think I've actually talked to anyone that thinks we need to unionize "now".

 

[LandGreen]

Outside the 10 guys that post on bluepilots.com over and over and over; I don't think I've actually talked to anyone that thinks we need to unionize "now".

It would be in DALPA's or (fill in the airline of choice) best interest if we didn't unionize at JB! Integration would be...."simple!"

 

[Hair-on-Fire]

It would be in DALPA's or (fill in the airline of choice) best interest if we didn't unionize at JB! Integration would be...."simple!"

Is this the latest fear tactic? I heard that a union can keep you from getting cancer too. Vote yes before you die.

 

[IronCityBlue]

apples to alpas

This sounds great....BUT it could only happen if there is an ALPA contract in place at JetBlue. Without it....please refer to the history of TWA, Reno Air, etc etc. Just an opinion~

So why did AA insist on the TWA language being either waived or thrown out in an 1113 filing as an unconditional requirement? Contracts have to be honored, or thrown out in BK of course. JB is a long way from BK (at least 2 more IROPS, Ha!) and DAL likely won't be taking on this kind of project until they exit Ch 11, so BK won't be an issue for either party.

Our language is supposedly being worked on right now, and from what I hear its an absolute poison pill (a real one, not "the new terminal only holds 320's...I agree that's a joke, besides I've seen the blueprints and it will accomodate a 330 at some gates FWIW). If they let us down on the language, expect a lot more "on the fence" guys to jump over real quick.

 

[DAL737FO]

Just out of curiousity, what contract do you guys have? I understand each employee is on an individual contract with the company. What language do you have to protect you if another airline buys assets or routes? Do you have fragmentation policy, as a group, or is it every man for himself?

I don't see this happening myself as the fleet commonality issue alone would probably stop it.

 

[Flyer1015]

I heard this rumor, too.

Apparently, all Jetblue A320s will have their V2500 engines replaced with CFM engines. Then, all Jetblue pilots approaching their 5 yr mark will be terminated (too high cost as Neeleman would say). The remainng Jetblue pilots will be stapled to the bottom of Delta's pilot seniority list. The blue chips will be kept and featured on all Delta/Jetblue flights.

At least, that's what my Delta mechanic's brother's 2nd wife's dog told me...

 

[IronCityBlue]

a contract is a contract (x 1800)

Just out of curiousity, what contract do you guys have? I understand each employee is on an individual contract with the company. What language do you have to protect you if another airline buys assets or routes? Do you have fragmentation policy, as a group, or is it every man for himself?

I don't see this happening myself as the fleet commonality issue alone would probably stop it.

Each pilot has an individual contract, but they are all the same. I think it would be fairly easy to bundel them up in a class action lawsuit if what little protection we had was simply ignored. Integration language is weak but says if we're left out in the cold we get a years pay. Nothing in it that prevents a staple job. My rough math says 150mil for the year's pay and an aquiring company could wash their hands of us. That's chicken scratch for a deal that big.

There's a few defeatists who are of the opinion that since the TWA guys got screwed that all merger language is therefor irrelevant. They are not the majority. This is an important issue for many of us, and its significance is growing by the day. There are much bigger reasons an organizing drive is going on right now than a COLA bump and 401k increase. Merger/fragmentation language is at the top of the list for more and more every day.

 

[Bavarian Chef]

What language do you have to protect you if another airline buys assets or routes?

We have the English language, but it is very unreliable. In fact the average American's vocabulary (excepting Occam, of course) has dropped to only 10,000 words.

I for one am despondent.

 

[Occam's Razor]

We have the English language, but it is very unreliable. In fact the average American's vocabulary (excepting Occam, of course) has dropped to only 10,000 words.

Yowzah!

A shout out from a fellow Naval Aviator!

(blush)

Like a curate's egg, you've gotten part of it right.

A neo-classical example of fecund antinomy...disputatious, yet oddly droll and waggish.

 

[HalinTexas]

Jetblue would get stapled. No two ways about it.

If for some reason you decided to fight for the individual contracts you each signed, then an acquiring company would only have to not renew them and you'd be out on the street. By the time you fought it in court and won all the appeals, you'd be out on the street anyway.

Remember, if you do organize it will probably take 2-3 years to get a contract. Even then, if you're not ALPA, they could still staple you.

Now, if Jetblue bought Delta.........

 

[737 Pylt]

Jetblue would get stapled. No two ways about it.

If for some reason you decided to fight for the individual contracts you each signed, then an acquiring company would only have to not renew them and you'd be out on the street. By the time you fought it in court and won all the appeals, you'd be out on the street anyway.

Remember, if you do organize it will probably take 2-3 years to get a contract. Even then, if you're not ALPA, they could still staple you.

Now, if Jetblue bought Delta.........

Hal:
No doubt when BK is over we'll be merged with someone, it's just a matter of who? If I was a betting man, I'd say NW!
I've been hearing these same rumblings about JB for a few months now, I give it zero credibility. However, Dave Bushy leaving, it does make you wonder what he sees coming down the horizon! He left DL just before the shizzle hit the fan!

737

 

[Bavarian Chef]

Yowzah!

A shout out from a fellow Naval Aviator!

(blush)

Like a curate's egg, you've gotten part of it right.

A neo-classical example of fecund antinomy...disputatious, yet oddly droll and waggish.

I came home after drinking WAY too many German beers at the local German restaurant, two kids asleep, one wife a fish, and oddly enuff I am sated by one post from a fellow erudite. Yet I am far from droll and never waggish, but most likely tedious and oftentimes rude, and more often than not I suffer from cognitive dissonance.

 

[Bavarian Chef]

And if I knew better a long time ago ... I NEVER WOULD HAVE BECOME A PILOT. I am way too freakin' smart for this bullsheet.

 

[8vATE]

That is ridiculous! ESPECIALLY if management is saying it! Come ON!!! Don't you think they know that most JB pilots want to unionize now, and one of the main reasons is takeover protection?? By saying "... it will cost hundreds of millions to reconfigure and that should be the bitter poison pill to keep JB from being gobbled up...no need for better language and ESPECIALLY no need for a union." Are you actually going to believe that? If you were the PA of NY would you finance something like that without a backup plan. I don't think anybody is that stupid...but then again?

Your statements are ridiculous.
ALPA is no guarantee of protection during an acquistion.
Can you say TWA... try it... its easy.
And the terminal would not be a deal breaker if somebody wanted to buy it.
It would be a consideration though. A corporate poison pill, if done correctly can make it near impossible to buy a corporation through a takeover. But we are speculating way over the top here.
But its funny that you think ALPA can protect a pilot group!
That's a laugh!

 

[HalinTexas]

Hal:
No doubt when BK is over we'll be merged with someone, it's just a matter of who? If I was a betting man, I'd say NW!
I've been hearing these same rumblings about JB for a few months now, I give it zero credibility. However, Dave Bushy leaving, it does make you wonder what he sees coming down the horizon! He left DL just before the shizzle hit the fan!

737

I wouldn't bet on it. If you can't make out of BK alone, then maybe.