Delta Ties the Knot with JAL

[General Lee]

Looks like all you'll get is a codeshare.....maybe

Ummmmm, what? What article did you read? Looks like JAL wants to dump INTL routes and planes? We are the only other airline with 5th Freedom rights from Japan, allowing us to fly wherever we want. The Tokyo Government and the ETIC both favor DL's plan. But you know better, right??? AA does NOT have the right to fly anywhere other than their current routes (JFK, DFW, LAX, and ORD) That just doesn't seem promising, even though they are trying to jack up the price just like they did with the Pan Am stuff. Good try! I guess we'll see.......(BTW, we have 744s and MD90s right now)


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[General Lee]

Absolutely a large amount of growth will go to Star and ANA in particular. It is a Japanese airline that is failing that carried mostly Japanese passengers. The Japanese prefer things that are Japanese and if forced to chose between a foreign carrier and a Japanese carrier, most are going to choose Japanese. Especially the high yield Japanese business man.

Same as most Americans would choose a US airline over a foreign one.

On the surface, there does not appear to be much shrinkage over the long term. They are retiring 37 747s over 3 years and have 35 firm 787 orders with 20 options. ANA is also doing the same, getting rid of 747s to be replaced with long range twins. I think short term (1-5 years) you will see JAL stop flying some international routes, but over the long term (5+years), they will still have a huge market share of the international Japanese market.

Again, DL (via NW ORIENT) has the rights to fly anywhere from Japan, and that is a good thing. They (Tokyo) won't just give everything to ANA. Nope. And JAL wants to get radically smaller, soon, to become a strong entity. That is what is important to the Japanese, to save face. What about their JAL Cargo 744s? They are fairly new. I guess they are gone. What about their 777-300ERs? They said they will be getting rid of most of their (INTL)widebodies and going for a mainly domestic fleet.(they do have some domestic widebodies that fly high density routes out of HND to major domestic cities within Japan, which will probably stick around. Do they need 777-300ERs for those cities? No) Outsourcing will be huge. What about the JALWays 744s that go to Hawaii? Looks like they will be gone too. I think you may be a bit wrong. They want to do it right the first time, and they are looking for a partner that can still feed them revenue by taking over the expensive routes. Think 5th Freedom, baby!


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[d328pilot]

Again, DL (via NW ORIENT) has the rights to fly anywhere from Japan, and that is a good thing. They (Tokyo) won't just give everything to ANA. Nope. And JAL wants to get radically smaller, soon, to become a strong entity. That is what is important to the Japanese, to save face. What about their JAL Cargo 744s? They are fairly new. I guess they are gone. What about their 777-300ERs? They said they will be getting rid of most of their (INTL)widebodies and going for a mainly domestic fleet.(they do have some domestic widebodies that fly high density routes out of HND to major domestic cities within Japan, which will probably stick around. Do they need 777-300ERs for those cities? No) Outsourcing will be huge. What about the JALWays 744s that go to Hawaii? Looks like they will be gone too. I think you may be a bit wrong. They want to do it right the first time, and they are looking for a partner that can still feed them revenue by taking over the expensive routes. Think 5th Freedom, baby!


Bye Bye---General Lee

I think your news is a little off there General. They are getting rid of the 747s and the MD 80s. No where did they say they were getting rid of their entire widebody fleet. As it stands, that would leave them with with 18 737s. Everything else they own is a widebody.

They have stated that they are planning to cut only 13 international routes. That still leaves them with over 50. ANA has stated that we have some interest in doing some of those routes and the Japanese government has already allotted us enough slots in HND and NRT to do the extra flying.

JALWays is pretty much gone already. They mostly flew classics and only 400s for a short time.

One of the government's possible options was to give JALs international operation to ANA. period.... But, ANA has since said they have no interest in doing that.

777-300ERs will be used to replace the 747s on high yield international routes that they keep. And they do need 777s for domestic. Not the ERs but they have no problem filling seats on 747's in a once class configuration so I am sure they won't have any problem with 777s.

About the Japanese saving face..... If you think that saving face is allowing a US airline to take the place of the once icon of booming post-war Japan (JAL), you are off your rocker. Also, JAL wanting to be small "soon." You obviously don't understand the definition of "soon" to the Japanese. Nothing here ever happens soon by western standards.

I highly highly doubt that you are going to see massive increases in Japan to Asia flights being flown by DL. Maybe a few from the US to Japan and a few more Japan to Asia routes but nothing massive. Just look at how many passengers fly on US carriers now that originate in Japan... I fly home from Tokyo to Thailand every month and 90% of the passengers are connections from the US. Business class passengers are probably only 5% that originate in Japan (usually only me)...if that. You have a market in Tokyo, but it is flying connecting passengers.

DL is not going to replace JAL flying international routes out of Japan. If you really think that, you really don't understand the Japanese at all.

 

[d328pilot]

Reuters:

All Nippon is looking to increase its overseas flights by targeting profitable routes to Europe and the United States and has told Japan's government of its interest, the Yomiuri said, citing unidentified sources.

JAL, whose shares hit a record low this week on expectations that it was headed for bankruptcy under a state restructuring plan, has been burdened by unprofitable domestic and international routes.

JAL has already said it will terminate flights on 30 routes, including 13 international, by June.

All Nippon competes with JAL on more than 30 of All Nippon's 40 international routes, the paper said.

"We want to increase flights to Europe and the United States," the Yomiuri quoted an All Nippon executive as saying.

 

[ACL65PILOT]

Wait for the deets.

I bet AF does many of the European cities, and DAL does the Americas.

 

[General Lee]

I think your news is a little off there General. They are getting rid of the 747s and the MD 80s. No where did they say they were getting rid of their entire widebody fleet. As it stands, that would leave them with with 18 737s. Everything else they own is a widebody.

They have stated that they are planning to cut only 13 international routes. That still leaves them with over 50. ANA has stated that we have some interest in doing some of those routes and the Japanese government has already allotted us enough slots in HND and NRT to do the extra flying.

JALWays is pretty much gone already. They mostly flew classics and only 400s for a short time.

One of the government's possible options was to give JALs international operation to ANA. period.... But, ANA has since said they have no interest in doing that.

777-300ERs will be used to replace the 747s on high yield international routes that they keep. And they do need 777s for domestic. Not the ERs but they have no problem filling seats on 747's in a once class configuration so I am sure they won't have any problem with 777s.

About the Japanese saving face..... If you think that saving face is allowing a US airline to take the place of the once icon of booming post-war Japan (JAL), you are off your rocker. Also, JAL wanting to be small "soon." You obviously don't understand the definition of "soon" to the Japanese. Nothing here ever happens soon by western standards.

I highly highly doubt that you are going to see massive increases in Japan to Asia flights being flown by DL. Maybe a few from the US to Japan and a few more Japan to Asia routes but nothing massive. Just look at how many passengers fly on US carriers now that originate in Japan... I fly home from Tokyo to Thailand every month and 90% of the passengers are connections from the US. Business class passengers are probably only 5% that originate in Japan (usually only me)...if that. You have a market in Tokyo, but it is flying connecting passengers.

DL is not going to replace JAL flying international routes out of Japan. If you really think that, you really don't understand the Japanese at all.

Thanks for that, but DL won't give any money without getting a piece of the pie. If you think the money is for free, then you are the one who is off your rocker. You forget that Tokyo and the ETIC are in favor of a new codeshare, and that should mean something to you. DL has the rights to fly new routes, and I bet you may see some sooner than later. Where do you think the 37 744s are going to go? JALWAYS has 4 daily 744s from HNL to Japan (KIX, NGO, and 2 to NRT) Besides that, could some of those be JAL Cargo? Somebody will fill in the gaps, regardless of what you think, and it won't only be ANA.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[Mr.B]

Ummmmm, what? What article did you read? Looks like JAL wants to dump INTL routes and planes? We are the only other airline with 5th Freedom rights from Japan, allowing us to fly wherever we want. The Tokyo Government and the ETIC both favor DL's plan. But you know better, right??? AA does NOT have the right to fly anywhere other than their current routes (JFK, DFW, LAX, and ORD) That just doesn't seem promising, even though they are trying to jack up the price just like they did with the Pan Am stuff. Good try! I guess we'll see.......(BTW, we have 744s and MD90s right now)


Bye Bye---General Lee

By the time the JAL/DAL or AMR (still up in the air) alliance is sorted out the UAL/CAL/ANA venture will be firewalled. Should UAL decide to finally run an airline and pull out their dormant Pacific routes, watch out. I'm done with you little man so take your chihuahua yapping elsewhere.

 

[Yuppyguppy]

well said....looks like the general just got demoted to colonel...LOL!!

 

[d328pilot]

Thanks for that, but DL won't give any money without getting a piece of the pie. If you think the money is for free, then you are the one who is off your rocker. You forget that Tokyo and the ETIC are in favor of a new codeshare, and that should mean something to you. DL has the rights to fly new routes, and I bet you may see some sooner than later. Where do you think the 37 744s are going to go? JALWAYS has 4 daily 744s from HNL to Japan (KIX, NGO, and 2 to NRT) Besides that, could some of those be JAL Cargo? Somebody will fill in the gaps, regardless of what you think, and it won't only be ANA.


Bye Bye--General Lee

The only thing that matters to me is that we just got 5 777s and 5 767 to be delivered ASAP.... wonder what thats for...

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=aNTR_wHY5lyk&pos=5

JAL May Lose Passengers to ANA as Travelers Worry About Service

Jan. 20 (Bloomberg) -- Japan Airlines Corp., Asia’s first flag carrier to file for bankruptcy, could lose passengers to All Nippon Airways Co. on customer concern that service standards will drop.

JAL’s service has already suffered a “slight decline” in the past six weeks, said Edward Plaisted, chief executive officer of Skytrax, which ranks airlines globally on quality and currently rates the carrier four stars out of five.

“Outside Japan, we do believe that the JAL situation will serve to drive more and more customers to using ANA,” Plaisted said in an e-mail interview. “In the past two to three years, JAL has simply not been able to keep pace with the quality change and quality improvements by their key rival.”


ANA plans to expand its international services, Ito said. He denied that it may buy JAL’s overseas operations.

 

[ACL65PILOT]

Just for arguments sake, you did notice that JAL has 71 aircraft on order with Boeing correct?

 

[d328pilot]

which they have stated they plan on keeping. No one is going to just come in and replace JAL. Many carriers will see small growth in the short term, and long term JAL hopefully with get their ducks in a row.

 

[johnsonrod]

The only thing that matters to me is that we just got 5 777s and 5 767 to be delivered ASAP.... wonder what thats for...

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=aNTR_wHY5lyk&pos=5

JAL May Lose Passengers to ANA as Travelers Worry About Service

Jan. 20 (Bloomberg) -- Japan Airlines Corp., Asia’s first flag carrier to file for bankruptcy, could lose passengers to All Nippon Airways Co. on customer concern that service standards will drop.

JAL’s service has already suffered a “slight decline” in the past six weeks, said Edward Plaisted, chief executive officer of Skytrax, which ranks airlines globally on quality and currently rates the carrier four stars out of five.

“Outside Japan, we do believe that the JAL situation will serve to drive more and more customers to using ANA,” Plaisted said in an e-mail interview. “In the past two to three years, JAL has simply not been able to keep pace with the quality change and quality improvements by their key rival.”


ANA plans to expand its international services, Ito said. He denied that it may buy JAL’s overseas operations.

Under an article titled "Foreign Predators circle crippled Japan Airlines", the fifth paragraph states: "If JAL joins SkyTeam, it is "highly likely that JAL's flights to America will be replaced by Delta," said Yasuhiro Matsumoto, a credit analyst at Shinsei Securities."

In that same article, Yoshihisa Akai, head of research at Japan Aviation Management Research states, "As JAL becomes slimmer, Delta would provide many flights."


Sorry about the above, I could not cut and paste the article. It is on APC if you need to see it. Sounds like Delta could do well and grow if JAL decides to go to the SkyTeam. Maybe I could throw an app in.