Delta sees SOLID PROFIT GROWTH for 2012

[Hpilot]

Gotta' disagree with you here, Dan. DPA most certainly does NOT equal USAPA. Having an inhouse union has its plusses and minuses, and that's for individual groups to decide. For a big enough airline (us or you), it can be great, overcoming the shortcomings of a national union (ALPA). On the other hand, if not run well, it'll probably hurt. It's certainly your choice; I'm not advocatiing either option for you.

However, to repeat: Delta forming an inhouse union is NOTHING like USAPA. DPA would be to replace ALPA and represent the Delta pilots as a whole, whereas USAPA was formed specifically to circumvent an arbitrated list, and specifically to advance the interests of one set of the pilots against the other set of the pilots. Unless you're insinuating that DPA is a ruse to pit one subset of Delta guys against another, they are worlds apart. Are you saying that's the case?


Bubba

Totally agree, you can't compare USAPA to a DPA or APA. USAPA gives inhouse unions a bad name, which is unfortunate.

 

[Hpilot]

Bubba:
I think the point here is that DPA is using the same legal representation as USAPA, ergo it's bad advice.
You make some valid points, but IMHO, the Delta pilots are better served by ALPA than the abortion counsel they have at USAPA.

You're kidding? Why would someone take advice from the same group that produced absolutely nothing for several million dollars? Wow, it's like those CEOs that go from bankruptcy to bankruptcy, tanking company after company and they keep getting offered jobs.

 

[retired guy]

Someone correct me if I`m wrong, but, when a pilot signs the list for a new union (DPA) doesn`t the signature become invalid after one year? If this is true then there aren`t 4000 signatures requesting a vote on a new union, only the pilots that have signed up in the past year. Someone educate me on this.

 

[General Lee]

DELTA is planning to cut ANOTHER 2-3% next year 2012. I would love to Punch Anderson in the teeth. Airports are SLAMMED, planes are stuffed like a college dorm room closet and these dipsh!ts continue to cut capacity when there is a MARKET DEMAND for more capacity. Again more evidence that the hiring boom hopefuls should seek a reality pill. Corporate profitability is the ONLY motivator of Staffing, operational and shrinking measures.

???? GROWTH??? What growth?

That's for the RJs, not mainline. Lots of 50 seaters will probably be parked next year. Mainline will continue to get MD90s and trade them in for DC9s that are leaving. There is actually a net gain there in seats, and the MD90s pay more. Delta will also be getting at least one 767-300ER from GOL (Brazillian) too.

When you cut capacity, you are allowed to bump fares up, improving yeild. How are the legacies going to be able to buy new planes and compete against the Emirates of the World? When was the last time a legacy bought NEW widebodies? American just bought 5 777-300ERs, but then went into BK. That's it for large widebodies. The 787s were ordered awhile ago for CAL (now UAL), and NWA ordered some, but they have been pushed until 2020. Emirates is getting 90 A380s and now 50 new 777-300ERs. The legacies HAVE to make profits in order to actually order new planes to compete in the future. New large widebodies need to be ordered, and profits need to be had. Expect there to be only 3 legacies in the future, along with a few LCCs, and a few mega regionals flying limited flying for those legacies after losing a bunch of 50 seaters. Fewer airlines means less competition, and better pricing power. It's time for this industry to have sustained profits to help fund that growth.


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[General Lee]

Someone correct me if I`m wrong, but, when a pilot signs the list for a new union (DPA) doesn`t the signature become invalid after one year? If this is true then there aren`t 4000 signatures requesting a vote on a new union, only the pilots that have signed up in the past year. Someone educate me on this.

If there is a lowball TA given to us by Dalpa from the company, I think they will be able to get 6500 signatures over a weekend.


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[retired guy]

If there is a lowball TA given to us by Dalpa from the company, I think they will be able to get 6500 signatures over a weekend.


Bye Bye---General Lee

Well, that`s interesting, but doesn`t answer my question.

 

[FDJ2]

If there is a lowball TA given to us by Dalpa from the company, I think they will be able to get 6500 signatures over a weekend.


Bye Bye---General Lee

And DPA would do what? Nothing, nothing at all. They lack the resources, structure and political influence to accomplish anything other than pander.

The overwhelming number of Delta pilots realize this.

If you don't like the TA, vote it down, if you don't like your LEC rep, vote for someone you do like. So simple even a caveman can do it.

DPA and their supporters are doing significantly more harm than good for the Delta pilots.

 

[FDJ2]

Someone correct me if I`m wrong, but, when a pilot signs the list for a new union (DPA) doesn`t the signature become invalid after one year? If this is true then there aren`t 4000 signatures requesting a vote on a new union, only the pilots that have signed up in the past year. Someone educate me on this.

You're right, their cards are expiring and my guess is that most wont be tricked into filling out a new one.

 

[xray678]

If you don't like the TA, vote it down, if you don't like your LEC rep, vote for someone you do like. So simple even a caveman can do it.

And if you don't like your union, you can vote them out too.

Caveman simple.

 

[BrickTop]

That's for the RJs, not mainline. Lots of 50 seaters will probably be parked next year. Mainline will continue to get MD90s and trade them in for DC9s that are leaving. There is actually a net gain there in seats, and the MD90s pay more. Delta will also be getting at least one 767-300ER from GOL (Brazillian) too.

When you cut capacity, you are allowed to bump fares up, improving yeild. How are the legacies going to be able to buy new planes and compete against the Emirates of the World? When was the last time a legacy bought NEW widebodies? American just bought 5 777-300ERs, but then went into BK. That's it for large widebodies. The 787s were ordered awhile ago for CAL (now UAL), and NWA ordered some, but they have been pushed until 2020. Emirates is getting 90 A380s and now 50 new 777-300ERs. The legacies HAVE to make profits in order to actually order new planes to compete in the future. New large widebodies need to be ordered, and profits need to be had. Expect there to be only 3 legacies in the future, along with a few LCCs, and a few mega regionals flying limited flying for those legacies after losing a bunch of 50 seaters. Fewer airlines means less competition, and better pricing power. It's time for this industry to have sustained profits to help fund that growth.


Bye Bye---General Lee

And if your are correct, plan to see thousands of pilots OUT OF WORK.

 

[General Lee]

And DPA would do what? Nothing, nothing at all. They lack the resources, structure and political influence to accomplish anything other than pander.

The overwhelming number of Delta pilots realize this.

If you don't like the TA, vote it down, if you don't like your LEC rep, vote for someone you do like. So simple even a caveman can do it.

DPA and their supporters are doing significantly more harm than good for the Delta pilots.

Political influence? You mean like age 65, and crew pass, etc..... Riiight.

The overwhelming number of Delta pilots are watching to see what Dalpa does next. The 4000 or so will probably say something to the others if Dalpa doesn't get this next one right. There is a conflict of interest when it comes to mainline vs RJ operators, and this needs to be rectified. But, I think Dalpa will have a chance to show what they've got during this upcoming contract TA. If it is great, then I think the DPA's dreams are limited at best. If it isn't, well, that won't be good. Again, I am surprised by your attitude. What is wrong with holding our "agents" accountable? Delta is very profitable now (bag fees last year over $950 million), and scope with JVs and RJs is getting out of hand. Pay, workrules and scope need to be RESTORED. Hopefully Dalpa will accomplish that. If not, then that means change may be needed. How can anyone disagree with that?


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[General Lee]

And if you don't like your union, you can vote them out too.

Caveman simple.

Very true. Why don't people understand this? Produce a great contract or move over. Restoration is needed.


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[On Your Six]

Political influence? You mean like age 65, and crew pass, etc..... Riiight.

The overwhelming number of Delta pilots are watching to see what Dalpa does next. The 4000 or so will probably say something to the others if Dalpa doesn't get this next one right. There is a conflict of interest when it comes to mainline vs RJ operators, and this needs to be rectified. But, I think Dalpa will have a chance to show what they've got during this upcoming contract TA. If it is great, then I think the DPA's dreams are limited at best. If it isn't, well, that won't be good. Again, I am surprised by your attitude. What is wrong with holding our "agents" accountable? Delta is very profitable now (bag fees last year over $950 million), and scope with JVs and RJs is getting out of hand. Pay, workrules and scope need to be RESTORED. Hopefully Dalpa will accomplish that. If not, then that means change may be needed. How can anyone disagree with that?


Bye Bye---General Lee

I personally want to see DALPA succeed.


Godspeed!


OYS

 

[Dan Roman]

Gotta' disagree with you here, Dan. DPA most certainly does NOT equal USAPA. Having an inhouse union has its plusses and minuses, and that's for individual groups to decide. For a big enough airline (us or you), it can be great, overcoming the shortcomings of a national union (ALPA). On the other hand, if not run well, it'll probably hurt. It's certainly your choice; I'm not advocatiing either option for you.

However, to repeat: Delta forming an inhouse union is NOTHING like USAPA. DPA would be to replace ALPA and represent the Delta pilots as a whole, whereas USAPA was formed specifically to circumvent an arbitrated list, and specifically to advance the interests of one set of the pilots against the other set of the pilots. Unless you're insinuating that DPA is a ruse to pit one subset of Delta guys against another, they are worlds apart. Are you saying that's the case?

Bubba

Bubba, that's my point that this most certainly would divide the group into factions. This did happen post merger interesting enough.
I would say the same thing if a group of SWA pilot's tried to get ALPA on the property. It would be a foolish move and it would divide you guys too much. (hypothetical of course, in no way do I think that would be even considered) However if your union is ALPA, SWAPA or APA, it should be supported and if you don't like what's going on get involved, recall reps but don't divide up into factions. You'll lose in the long run.

 

[Dan Roman]

I forgot to make the point that if they had a 90% in favor vote, fine, go for it. But if they are having trouble getting 50% and than won by say 51%, they would be fractured and weak from that point on. That's my comparison to USAPA.

 

[igneousy2]

I don't have a horse in this race but one comment I will make is that a little competition between two unions is a good thing in the same way that we have a better Coke because of Pepsi and we have a better McDonalds because of Burger King.

 

[Dan Roman]

I don't have a horse in this race but one comment I will make is that a little competition between two unions is a good thing in the same way that we have a better Coke because of Pepsi and we have a better McDonalds because of Burger King.

I can see the reasoning except........ Unions are not a competive enterprise, they are simply the vehicle that pilot volunteers use to try and get the best contract thet think they can. Getting a new union will simply fracture the pilot group for the foreseeable future. Why not just elect new reps rather than try and reinvent the wheel?

 

[Kroll]

Why not just elect new reps rather than try and reinvent the wheel?

Well when the wheel is flat. You replace the wheel. It all depends on ones perspective on how well ALPA has done (during ones career). My personal perspective, ALPA has failed miserably on many fronts. I'm personally ready to move on and start over even though DPA will struggle at first.

 

[Dan Roman]

Well when the wheel is flat. You replace the wheel.

Actually I just get a new tire and keep the wheel!

 

[SWA Bubba]

Actually I just get a new tire and keep the wheel!

Yeah, but what if you hit a really, really big pothole and crack the rim as well. That happened to me once in Louisiana. Uh, what the hell are we talking about again?....

Bubba