Delta scope

[Pasturepilot]

the Air Mekong CR9s are in the UK right now. I spoke last with the inspector who's flying over to to the acceptance checks..

... and they didn't come out of our fleet to go over there.

 

[SEVEN]

Your days are numbered unless you want a Vietnamese Egg Roll shoved up your a$#.
Bye Bye---General Lee

I don't care who you is...that's some funny stuff right there........

 

[Flyer1015]

Seriously man, if you want scope, try the mouthwash aisle. You won't find Scope within the Delta ranks.

 

[Papa Woody]

Every Captain I have flown with lately (very senior too) says...

Now THAT's gotta be a fun time.....General Lee and a 'very senior' Delta Captain locked up front for 12 hrs!

 

[PeanuckleCRJ]

Seriously man, if you want scope, try the mouthwash aisle. You won't find Scope within the Delta ranks.

That would have been a true statement 10 years ago. Everyone here has had their career potential screwed by poor scope, and most know it, too.

 

[General Lee]

Now THAT's gotta be a fun time.....General Lee and a 'very senior' Delta Captain locked up front for 12 hrs!

That could never happen. Any flight over 8 hours requires 3 pilots (over 12 hours means 4 total pilots), and that means sleep breaks. So, there is no way anyone would be stuck with me for 12 hours straight up front in the cockpit. Nope. Sorry. Good try!


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[Jack-O-Lantern]

That could never happen. Any flight over 8 hours requires 3 pilots (over 12 hours means 4 total pilots), and that means sleep breaks. So, there is no way anyone would be stuck with me for 12 hours straight up front in the cockpit. Nope. Sorry. Good try!


Bye Bye--General Lee

Why do I get the feeling there are a lot of your cohorts that are very thankful that they don't have to spend 12 hours with you.

 

[ACL65PILOT]

The CPS MEC vote was to respond to a question posed by ALPA National in regard to CPS forming their own MEC. It was down premerger lines. Why? It does not matter.

In the end the choice was made to give the CPS pilots their own MEC where they could guide their own path. Think possible DFR with DAL pilots negotiating scope that may effect CPS. Either way, their MEC was formed in March.

As for the 76/70 seat scope question:
255 total 76/70 seat jets are allowed under the DALPA PWA. Of the 255 153 are allowed to be 76 seat jets until DAL mainline passes I beleive 763 airframes. After that point DAL can take delivery of three 76 seat jets for each additional mainline jet to a total of 255 76 seat jet. It is tied to mainline growth. In effect 102 more jets could be 76 seat jets if Mainline grows to close to 800 airframes and stays that way until the DCI 76 seat jets are on property. Once on property the number can not be reduced per the 76 Seat Scope Settlement.

DCI can operate all of the 255 as 70 seat jets if they so chose, but cannot add more 76 seat jets until their is growth at mainline. The additional 700's from Horizon are totally legal under the Section One limits of the D-ALPA PWA. I need to check but I beleive that they can add 8-12 more before they hit 255 total 70/76 seat airframes at DCI.

Of note the only 175's that can be operated above the 86,000lb limit are the CPS 175's. Only the initial 36(as I recall it is 36) not the options if they were every converted in to orders.

 

[xjhawk]

Interesting, thanks ACL65. As a Mesaba guy I can only hope for some sort of airframe replacement for the Saabs. Going though this crap again when others are hiring and/or recalling furloughs pretty much blows. Not to mention putting earnest money down on a home to be built on the day of the announcement is very bad timing. But for any that did not see this happening was not paying attention to what Delta really wants.

 

[ACL65PILOT]

Hey there were guys that had to close on houses after the announced DFW was "De-hubbing" too!

 

[xjgearbtch]

ACL65 thank you for posting USEFUL information!!!

 

[ACL65PILOT]

My pleasure. I left out a lot of the reasoning and legal points and just gave the result of the settlements.

Simply put what I wrote is how DCI scope works.

 

[JustaNumber]

The CPS MEC vote was to respond to a question posed by ALPA National in regard to CPS forming their own MEC. It was down premerger lines. Why? It does not matter.

In the end the choice was made to give the CPS pilots their own MEC where they could guide their own path. Think possible DFR with DAL pilots negotiating scope that may effect CPS. Either way, their MEC was formed in March.

As for the 76/70 seat scope question:
255 total 76/70 seat jets are allowed under the DALPA PWA. Of the 255 153 are allowed to be 76 seat jets until DAL mainline passes I beleive 763 airframes. After that point DAL can take delivery of three 76 seat jets for each additional mainline jet to a total of 255 76 seat jet. It is tied to mainline growth. In effect 102 more jets could be 76 seat jets if Mainline grows to close to 800 airframes and stays that way until the DCI 76 seat jets are on property. Once on property the number can not be reduced per the 76 Seat Scope Settlement.

DCI can operate all of the 255 as 70 seat jets if they so chose, but cannot add more 76 seat jets until their is growth at mainline. The additional 700's from Horizon are totally legal under the Section One limits of the D-ALPA PWA. I need to check but I beleive that they can add 8-12 more before they hit 255 total 70/76 seat airframes at DCI.

Of note the only 175's that can be operated above the 86,000lb limit are the CPS 175's. Only the initial 36(as I recall it is 36) not the options if they were every converted in to orders.

Back to the original poster's question--What is the exact definition of a 70 seat jet per the contract? Does removing seats change anything?

Also, when you say you believe they can add 8-12 more before they hit 255, would they all have to be 70's? (Am I correct in assuming that all 153 of the allowable 76 seaters are currently operating?)

 

[ACL65PILOT]

No removing seats changes nothing.

If they go above our high water mark which if I recall correctly is 763 mainline jets they can be 76 seat jets, but if we have less at the time of delivery they need to be 70 seat jets.

The agreement is on the configuration of the 76 seat jet and the certification of the 70 seat jet.

 

[Draginass]

When is Moak going to sell-out again and give Anderson 100 seat airplanes instead of virtually unlimited 70 seaters.

Delta? Scope? YGBSM. The Delta and NW pilots need to take their union back from their MEC.

 

[ACL65PILOT]

I do not see the LEC reps allowing anyone to see the 100 or 100-1 seat jet. Way too much strife over that one.

Never say never but the environment is definitely not in favor of this one.

 

[ohplease!]

No removing seats changes nothing.

If they go above our high water mark which if I recall correctly is 763 mainline jets they can be 76 seat jets, but if we have less at the time of delivery they need to be 70 seat jets.

The agreement is on the configuration of the 76 seat jet and the certification of the 70 seat jet.

if APC's numbers are correct, looks like Big D is at 789 planes or so and I hear there are some additional MD90's coming....things that make ya' hmmmm

 

[ACL65PILOT]

The actual number is avail on DAL net. The number of jets is active and spares, not jets in the desert.

Even if we went to 764 jets which is one above the high water mark, the limit of 255 is about 8-10 away after the four CR7's from Horizon come on over to EV.

DAL has committed to putting a FC in the CR7 versus trading it in for a CR9 or another 76 seat variant. It is not because they do not want to, it is because the ROI stinks.
Will there be pressure for more jets, sure, I suspect the first request would be fore 255 total 76 seat jets and no limit on 70's. It will be up to the MEC to decide that one, but they do it at their own risk.

 

[www.]

As always subject to change.