Delta Rumor

[sleepy]

Wow, the FA pay will be about the same as our (DCI) FA pay. I don't know what they will pay the mechs, but I'm sure that it will be higher that what we pay at ASA. ASA and Comair could start losing a lot of employees to the LLC (who could blame them for leaving).

I hope you guys get the Airbus. I have heard that DAL is pretty unhappy with Boeing right now, and they are basically giving the Airbus away right now. I to am wondering why your MEC is not using the code share deal as leverage to stop the furloughs (maybe something is in the works). It is really the only leverage you have until FM is ended. At least you guys have something, I think we at ASA are really screwed this time around.

 

[General Lee]

Sleepy,

I don't think you are screwed at ASA. You have enjoyed huge growth over the past year. And, I have heard that ASA will expand Westward eventually----probably even having flights through SLC. What we need though is for the furloughs to come back, and have growth at mainline or LCC to spur new hiring---and undoubtably ASA and Comair guys will get hired. Then things will really move.

Yes, the flt attendants will be paid a lot less on the LCC, but when Delta is forcasting to furlough upto 2300 flt attend, I am sure they will find a lot of takers for the LCC. Delta is in the process of taking out the number of flt attend per plane to the bare minimum. Normally a 757 would have 5, but it only needs 4 legally. They are doing that on every fleet type---going to minimums.

The mechanics will be paid more than the flt attend on the LCC, but not as much as mainline. There are plenty of people that would love to work period---and some of the people might be based in sunny locations---like Florida---where the LCC will be prominent.

I just got word that SUPPOSEDLY we will find out about the LCC on November 25th. (The Monday before Thanksgiving) Who knows? It will be interesting regardless.

Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[Medeco]

General Lee

Hey guys,

just trying to catch up on the discussion. Forgive me, but do you guys mean to say LLC(limited liability corp.) if not, what is LCC?

Thanks!

I have a family member at DAL, they stated there will be a spinoff company to compete with SWA and JetBlue, and will focus on the northeast. And the 757's will be used, single class.

Maybe I am repeating what was already said.

 

[NYRANGERS]

LCC

Low Cost Carrier

 

[sleepy]

I will believe the Western expansion is going to happen when I am back out West. I think we at ASA are screwed in our current contract talks because we have no scope, and DAL has been effective in bringing in even lower cost carriers that are poised to take over our routes if we were to strike. We have no leverage. At least at mainline you guys were smart enough to get some scope, even if it is weak compaired to the other majors.

 

[SWA/FO]

I was trying to figure out what LCC meant, too..

 

[General Lee]

Another LCC just went out of business---National Airlines in LAS.
It is sad. But, it will be interesting to see if anyone fills in the void.
As I said before, the National gates are in the same terminal with Delta and United. Could Delta use 757's on their LCC thru Vegas?
Will they step up to the plate? Can anyone actually afford to these days? I think Southwest could add more flights, and Jetblue is adding 2 daily flts to JFK soon, but can someone fill
National's void? They really flew a lot of people into Vegas in 3 years-----over 7 million people. Could Delta's LCC fill the void---
good question. I hope so. If not, Southwest will just gain more market share, and Jetblue will also gain flights there. I know
ATA is big there, but they aren't in wonderful financial shape
right now. Who knows?

Sleepy,

I know you guys are in contract negotiations right now at ASA, and the Comair strike did not help your cause. The pay will always be good at ASA, and the opportunity to go to Capt.
happens fast. The airplanes are really nice---that CRJ70 is
pretty **CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED** neat. Things could be worse. ATL and DFW are
nice bases----not super cold like Minneapolis. You also get good variety of flying----and it probably will get more interesting.
If you are looking for a big jump in pay----you will want to try for a major when things get back to normal. They will eventually.

Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[rjcap]

sleepy,

I think we at ASA are screwed in our current contract talks because we have no scope,

Its a little early to be throwing in the towel on the next contract. You need to be patient and let the process work.

Also, scope is dead.

Their will always be a way around negotiated scope limitations.

 

[General Lee]

RJ CAP,

That isnt good for either of us. If Delta thinks you guys are too expensive, they will deploy more Skywest RJ's and Chitaqua ERJ's on your routes. You guys are finally seeing what we have to go through when it comes to scope. The key is to protect the highest
paying jobs, and that is what we are trying to do. The only thing we have going for us is our No Furlough Clause. Even though it doesn't seem to work right now, eventually it will. The arbitrator will eventually (maybe not soon) rule FM is over, and then start a recall. So, Delta will someday have to contend with the 1400 guys
it has furloughed (if it gets that far) and do something with them.
Force mejeur will end---the arbitrator said that---and Delta will
have to employee the furloughed as pilots---that is our ace card,
and that is why it is in our contract. Delta will not be able to farm out everything, or they will have 1400 pilots getting paychecks while on the beach.

Bye Bye-----General Lee

 

[sleepy]

sleepy,



Its a little early to be throwing in the towel on the next contract. You need to be patient and let the process work.

Also, scope is dead.

Their will always be a way around negotiated scope limitations.

Scope is the single most important item in any contract. If you do not control the flying all of the pay raises in the world are worthless. Management will just give your work to somebody who will do it for less (and there is always somebody in aviation that will do just that). Scope is not dead, unless the RJDC guys win their lawsuit (a long shot at best IMO).

I am not saying that we throw in the towel, we will just have to accept that we do not have much bargining power (because we do not control any flying), and our next contract will likely reflect that.

What we need to do is get rid of the RJDC, and work with the only employee group at DAL that has any leverage at all, DALPA.

 

[rjcap]

Gen Lee, Sleepy,

Sorry guys. We are on entirely different ends of the spectrum here.

This industry is going through a complete restructuring and its anybodys guess what the end result will be.

Sleepy, management will always structure a contract to allow it enough flexibility to manage the business. Scope and no furlough clauses are merely smoke screens to waste our negotiating capital on while we delude ourselves into thinking we have created job security.

Take care guys. I'll pass on this discussion. Its been beaten to death before.

 

[cl65@350]

i think it is great to read the cordial and informative posts between general lee and sleepy...

both of you represent the majority of great pilots on both sides of the mainline and dci fence...it is nice to see amicable conversation vs. tail twisting and mudslinging! thanks

 

[MyRadarIsOut]

cl65@350


What you said!!!!!

 

[General Lee]

Most pilots at Delta who flew at a regional prior to Delta feel the same way. We know how it is and want everyone to do well. The cocky responses are usually from guys that never had to deal with it before, either coming from the military or corporate. I want Delta mainline to do well, and I want a strong DCI to SUPPORT us. Flying through ATL, I don't mind seeing CRJ50's and 70 seaters, because I know they are helping fill our mainline planes. I would get nervous if all I saw were RJ's, because I think we all want a lot of mainline planes. More of them means
more jobs eventually for those who might want to go to mainline.
Everything runs in cycles----like the economy. Eventually, as long as Delta survives which I think will happen, mainline will hire again
and I hope DCI guys get on board if they want.

By the way, I flew into Vegas yesterday and saw all of the National 757's parked. It was sad. But, I have heard that Delta is
currently testing new boarding procedures on the 757 to expedite
things. I believe Las Vegas will be a part, maybe not a huge part, of the LCC plan---especially now since there is a large void.
Southwest will not serve the same cities (JFK, MIA, IAD, DFW,
PHL, EWR) that National did (even though they go to some nearby like BWI etc.) and somebody will have to eventually.
I know Jetblue is now starting JFK-LAS early---like next week, but they can't expand too fast because they only get one plane per
month. Delta is currently trying to figure out what to do with the LCC, and will transfer 30-50 757's (We have something like 190
757's in the mainline fleet) from mainline to the LCC. They likely
will try to fly them all day and night, which means some routing thru Vegas is possible for allnighters. Supposedly, there will be some announcement about the LCC on Nov 25th---the Monday before Thanksgiving. Who Knows?

Bye Bye----General Lee

 

[sleepy]

Thanks, I think that most of us are reasonable people that want our company to do well. We don't want to take anybody's job, or wish anything bad on anybody else because of things that happend in the past. Hopefully all of the pilot groups at DAL will start working together for our common good.

 

[Starshipper]

Learn to Type Better

General Lee,

Your points tend to be extremely insightful. You have a great attitude and seem to have access to some very timely information. But - your typing skills SUCK...

Suggestion: Type as normal without pressing the "enter" key UNTIL you want to start a new paragraph - or a new line of thinking.

I love your insightful posts - but just LOOK at your previous comments - it becomes distracting...

Just offering some helpful advice. Happy flying!

 

[General Lee]

Th an ks StasShiPper, You MAke ME
Feel
reeeeel gud--I APprec iate Your FIne WWWWWords

of enncourageMent.

BYe
Bye---GenEral LEe