Delta RFP

[doh]

They decided where those planes were going a long time ago. Mesa will not get in because the mainline guys will not let management have a 90 seat exception. That's why the General has not responded after his initial flame bait. It's okay General, I flame to entertain myself too. Management would like us all to think they decide today what they will do tomorrow but I will not take a hit off their crack pipe, thanks all the same. They can announce the decision they made last year any time they want, they ain't gettin' a dime of cocession from moi!

 

[jetflyer]

I agree with DDpaysoff, the planes will go to Comair and ASA.

-Mesa has 90 seaters, so they won't get the new CRJs. Delta's Scope agreement simply won't allow them to fly Delta code share. THANK GOD!
-CHQ won't get them I bet because their bid will probably be higher than others due to the fact they don't fly CRJs but ERJs. They'd have to start up a whole new training program, etc. Very costly proposition.

With ASA/Comair doing the flying Delta doesn't have to split the profits with someone else. They get them all.

I think this whole thing was just a PLOY to get ASA/Comair guys and gals to give up pay. I bet Delta Management will look back on this and say "OH WELL THAT DIDN'T WORK" and give ASA/Comair an equal number of the planes in the future.

For the sake of the industry let's hope I'm right or bottom feeding will continue forever.

Jet

 

[TWAER]

-CHQ won't get them I bet because they're bid will probably be higher than others due to the fact they don't fly CRJs but ERJs. They'd have to start up a whole new training program, etc. Very costly proposition.

Jet

Maybe I missed something, but do the planes have to be CRJ's???

 

[Sam Fisher]

Maybe I missed something, but do the planes have to be CRJ's???

No, they don't. Furthermore, CHQ, as you know, already flies ERJ's for Delta down in MCO, so new "training program" needs to be written up, not that that was a valid concern anyways.

ExpressJet is another Embraer operator who submitted a bid for these 45 jets. Time will tell.

Sam

 

[bailout]

S.B. and D.B. both said that they were indeed CRJs, not ERJs or the DoJs.

 

[sweptback]

Also, numerous industry sources have stated that the 45 jets are conversions of the options that DCI has on the CRJ 200. IIRC DCI has to convert the options 15 months ahead of time, therefore the delivery is expected in 2005.

This makes sense, because to hold an option for a delivery slot requires a payment. Why forfeit all the money paid so they can go to Embraer and probably wait the same amount of time before delivery? Several options for 2004 delivery slots have already lapsed, anyway. I'm sure DCI doesn't want to see more of them evaporate.

Put me in the camp that thinks the jets will end up at ASA or Comair.

 

[FlyingDawg]

CHQ will get some of these jets. They only bid on 20 of the 45 aircraft. Union is stating that some will go the CHQ. It also might explain why they are still hiring.


I bet 15 go to CHQ to replace NE ACA flying, and DFW flying is withdrawn. CHQ rumors are that CHQ will close maint. in DFW.

 

[captainv]

i've heard that the 45 jets are CRJ options, but that doesn't mean DCI couldn't sell them and have CHQ convert them to ERJs.

i wouldn't be surprised to see the jets split between CHQ, ASA and CMR. actually, ASA might get stiffed initially since they're in renegotiation. i doubt DCI wants to grow them much while they've got the contract open.

would anybody put it past DCI to, say, threaten to give all the jets to CHQ/CMR unless ASA gives up something they're asking for? and then do the same thing to CMR in two years when our contract's up?

 

[TWAER]

Heard the same rumor this weekend on a JFK base for CHQ and 15 more ERJ's for Delta. Also going to withdraw for the most part out of DFW. Take it for what it is worth.

 

[General Lee]

Could this be what you mean TWAER?



Delta Connection Announces Schedule Adjustments in Dallas/Fort Worth
Monday December 29, 11:23 am ET
Additional Flights Increase Service Options for Customers


DALLAS and FORT WORTH, Texas, Dec. 29 /PRNewswire-FirstCall/ -- Delta Connection will make schedule adjustments in Delta Air Lines' (NYSE: DAL - News) hub in Dallas/Fort Worth to improve connection times for customers and increase Delta Connection departures to 11 existing cities by a total of 13 flights.


Customers traveling between Dallas/Fort Worth and the following cities will enjoy more frequency of flights: Alexandria, La.; Colorado Springs, Colo.; El Paso, Texas; Houston-Intercontinental; Lexington, Ky.; Oklahoma City and Tulsa, Okla.; Ontario, Calif.; Phoenix; and Pensacola and Ft. Walton Beach, Fla.

The changes will be effective in February and March 2004. Delta Connection carriers Atlantic Southeast Airlines (ASA), Chautauqua and SkyWest will operate the flights with the Bombardier and Embraer CRJ/ERJ regional jets.

"The changes at Dallas/Fort Worth will better match capacity to demand and provide customers with a better selection of frequencies, convenient connections and expanded travel options," said Fred Buttrell, president and chief executive officer, Delta Connection, Inc. "These adjustments are part of continuous improvement at the hub, and add further enhancements to the schedule."

As part of the schedule adjustments, Columbus, Ohio, and Louisville, Ky., will no longer have nonstop service from Dallas/Fort Worth. Customers may access the two cities via one stop service through Cincinnati and Atlanta.

Delta Connection includes Delta's wholly owned subsidiaries Atlantic Southeast Airlines and Comair, additional regional carriers Atlantic Coast Airlines, Chautauqua Airlines and SkyWest Airlines, and codeshare partner American Eagle (in California). Delta Connection carriers operate more than 380 regional jets throughout North America. For more information, please contact delta.com.

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[Palerider957]

[

i wouldn't be surprised to see the jets split between CHQ, ASA and CMR. actually, ASA might get stiffed initially since they're in renegotiation. i doubt DCI wants to grow them much while they've got the contract open.

would anybody put it past DCI to, say, threaten to give all the jets to CHQ/CMR unless ASA gives up something they're asking for? and then do the same thing to CMR in two years when our contract's up? [/B]

Hey, that's fine. ASA is an older pilot group, not the 21-23 year olds at the contract carriers. I'd rather get a solid contract then bend over and spread for "growth."

Don't get me wrong, I'd love to see ASA get some of these planes, but not at the costs of dignity.

 

[Freebrd]

Hopefully the Company (DeltaAirlines) got the message from the ASA & CMR pilot groups that we will not be bribed. ASA & CMR management cannot quarantee the pilots anything as only big daddy D makes those decisions.

Sure we'd love to have those planes for growth, upgrades, etc, but not at the expense of 15 years worth of contract improvements. We desire to IMPROVE our contract at ASA, and not move backwards, as does our CMR brothers & sisters.

As the General loves to say, the economy is improving, regional flights are full, and the regionals are making money.

Let's dance !!!!!

 

[jrcpilot]

Well Said Freebrd,
ASA needa a big improvement in quality of life issues in the contract. The pay maybe okay but the rest of the contract lacks behind many of the other carriers. I love the rumors that fly on these threads. It's enough to keep one entertained. The big D is going to do whats the best for the bid D whether we like it or not.

Blue skies

 

[CF34-3B1]

Hey, that's fine. ASA is an older pilot group, not the 21-23 year olds at the contract carriers. I'd rather get a solid contract then bend over and spread for "growth."

Don't get me wrong, I'd love to see ASA get some of these planes, but not at the costs of dignity.

Amen.

I can't tell you how many of those "do anything to get the upgrade" guys I've talked to that honestly believe SWA or jB is just waiting for them to get that 1000PIC so they can have the honor of hiring them.

4 or 5 or 7 years down the road, they'll figure it out.

 

[ace120]

Did Anyone know that Delta receives stock warrants in CHQ for every aditional aircraft they fly for Delta. Simple facts read the fine print.

ACE

 

[jrcpilot]

ace120,

Where did you read that ace? I would be interested to read up on that. I work for Delta in flight training and have not heard that. If you could give me a reference to the info I would appreciate it.
Thanks

 

[blott]

CHQ is a private company...I think I remember reading in the old IPO (pre 9-11...squashed that idea)about the codeshares getting a good chunk of stock though...Look for a new IPO attemt in the future.

as far as the CRJ vs. ERJ...CHQ doesn't seen to have any problems coming up with financing-or the actual emb's--remember-owned by Wexford-anyone know how many erj/crj's Wexford has? (plus the ERJ is a few million cheaper than the crj)

B

 

[P38JLightning]

Request for predatory bargaining.

All those "do anything for the upgrade" and "bend over for growth" guys at management's trendy, beloved brand management, pilot supply house, virtual airlines should always remember the fragility of their situation.

You may be the growth darlings and the apple of Fred Butrel's eye now, but remember that it is the mainline and WO pilots who will ALWAYS own your flying. (Take that RJDC!)

You see, "your flying" can always be "reclaimed" by the mainline, as well as sucessfuly underbid for by the WO's. Delta can snatch your jobs away and give them to Comair, ASA or "Mid-Atlanta" as they see fit, with the only obligation to you being 6 months notice. The only thing Delta has to do then is take over your leases. They have this option 100 planes at a time or 1 a month, however they want to do it.

So if you suceed in your masterful plan of underbidding and undermining the WO's, don't forget we can ALWAYS underbid you, well after you've gotten the growth. In fact we probably wouldn't have to completely underbid you, because we have that nice fee for departure profit margin to work with that puts you at a disadvantage compared to the WO's.

Now, will we do that? Right now, proably not. But if the contractors keep getting the lions share of the growth because of their gleeful lowballing and predatory bargaining and we're stuck with 9 year upgrades, stagnation or negative growth and the transfer of our flying to those who will do it for less, while they have 1.5 year upgrades and tons of movement, well, we just might chose to use the other edge of that whipsaw that you're currently pulling on and cut your little treehouse out from under you.

If we do chose to do this, now or in the future, the ONLY hurdle will be Delta having to take over the leases of the airframes. But with the economy improving, Delta moving back in the black, the Delta pilots helping out with a generous mid contract pay adjustment and Song flying out of ALL THREE NYC airports big D shouldn't have any problem getting that squared away.

Of course for now this option isn't really even on our radar screens. We're confident other carriers will stop the negative trend and once again start pushing the bar up for all of us.

We have great faith in COEX. They are a rabid group that's well unified and totally in charge of Bethune and company who can NOT afford a strike.

ASA is also in the driver's seat. If the Comair strike cost 3/4 billion in 3 months shutting down their secondary, mainly MD-80 hub, immagine if ATL loses 80-90% of its feed. The losses would be staggering. The Comair "integration" of ATL has mostly been new RJ service and little bit mainline replacement/supplements. Delta can't afford a Candler strike and they know it. ASA is in a position to easily get Comair +5% or more.

The ACA pilots are flipping off the entire virtual airline industry, removing all those "regional" airframes and using them against their former "code share partner team member alliance friends" and although they gave around 2% paycuts, they got a nice profit sharing plan (a pretty good compromise...I'd take that deal, as long as the profits were based on Delta and not a non existant, on paper ony, shell corporation) and have sent the message that when confronted with "concessions for growth" from the mainlines there's one more way in which to "just say no!"

And last but not least Mesaba. They have been screwed with by NWA so bad now, for so long, and their version of the portfolio concept that they may easily be as unified or more so than the Comair pilots were during our 89 day refusal to bend over any longer. I don't think they will be caving any time soon. NWA is just now starting to get a glimpse of profitability. Try telling your shareholders its worth it to piss away half a billion (or more) just to keep one of your 3 pilot groups from getting 1% more than your competitors. Mesaba pilots are also in the driver's seat, even if it takes a fight to get management to accept that.

So there's some positive news out there that should give hope to the pilots of the entire "small jet industry". Even the bottom feeders should celebrate, because every time someone fights to raise the bar, that's that much higher they can go next time around, but yet still be a comfortable margin below those they are backstabbing.

Just don't forget that if the bottom feeders are too sucessful in getting too much growth, the mainlines or WO's (or exclusive jet operators like COEX, who for all intents and purposes are WO'ed) can always, at any time, for any reason, reclaim some or all of that cool code share flying of ours that you do. If and when and how much of it we take back is up to us.

 

[low-key]

Aren;t the results of this RFP due out tomorrow 12-31?? If so I am intersted to see what happens

 

[DrinkSweetTea]

Can anyone else confirm that today is the day of the announcemt?

hmmm....

Delta Connection is expected to order an additional 45 Canadair Regional Jets early in 2004, while Bombardier may supply at least part of 100 to be ordered from Star Alliance partners