Delta RFP

[Russ]

Amazing, every one else from your time frame paid...except you. Sure, heard the same from others who post fact ashamed also.
The market didn't call for it, Comair did. There were many pilots hired at other airlines during that time frame who didn't feel the need to pay or to use the venacular of today, race to the bottom. The market was indeed tight in the Comair PFT days yet some held out and did it the proper way.

As far as SkyWest and the 50/70 pay thing. You have hit your mark. I agree completely. I am doing my part thank you, my card is in for the upcoming vote and I hand out as many cards to new guys as I can.

The best part of your post is you defending PFT in your first paragraph because of the economy and the state of the industry(even tho you didn't do it, wink wink). You then go on in your final para to inpugn SkyWest pilots, "You people really took a giant step backwards" SkyWest management presented their case to the pilots using your logic of a poor economy and state of the industry. One of you is copying the other. Your findings are a bit non sequitur to say the least when it was okay for Comair but not for SkyWest.
My opinion is both were wrong.

 

[Tim47SIP]

Russ

Amazing, every one else from your time frame paid...except you. Sure, heard the same from others who post fact ashamed also.

Although I was not hired at Comair, I am fairly sure they had the same program ASA did. There was a min hour level that if you were above, you did not have to pay. When I came on with ASA, I was well above that number and was told that I was waived. It was possible for people to be hired during the PFT days without paying for training. Most of the ERAU and Flight Safety program guys were the ones that did pay for training and are now getting it back over a certain period of time from the company.

 

[DDpaysoff]

DAL operating profit loss for Q3 '03.

Delta Mainline (175 million)
Comair 42.4 million
ASA 25.9 million

My DD says Comair and ASA will get the bulk of the jets. If not let's see what shareholders have to say! This whole thing is not about who can do it cheaper, but rather what market segment does DAL want to grow. These numbers are unbelievable. Check them out yourself. Check out the DAL 10-Q, if you can't sew the wound, might as well use big bandaids! **CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED**, I am glad we didn't give them a penny.

http://www.dot.gov/affairs/BTS2903.htm

http://www.shareholder.com/Common/Edgar/27904/950144-03-12856/03-00.pdf

 

[Sam Fisher]

DAL operating profit loss for Q3 '03.

Delta Mainline (175 million)
Comair 42.4 million
ASA 25.9 million

My DD says Comair and ASA will get the bulk of the jets. If not let's see what shareholders have to say! This whole thing is not about who can do it cheaper, but rather what market segment does DAL want to grow. These numbers are unbelievable. Check them out yourself. Check out the DAL 10-Q, if you can't sew the wound, might as well use big bandaids!

Ahh...the wonders of how one can allocate expenses and revenues. Sounds to me like if it was operated as all one airline, Delta would have lost $68 million less. Actually, now that I'm thinking about it, Delta consolidates its earnings so that is already taken into account. The RJ might not be making them money, but it might help them "lose less." Furthermore, the RJ airlines are only profitable because of the "cost plus" relationships that they enjoy. I can guarantee that if you properly allocated the revenue share per segment as well as the costs per segment, you wouldn't see airlines like mine making $100 million pre-tax.

Sam

 

[AirBill]

I've heard that Mesa will get all the new jets.

Mind telling the rest of us what your sources are?

 

[doh]

They decided where those planes were going a long time ago. Mesa will not get in because the mainline guys will not let management have a 90 seat exception. That's why the General has not responded after his initial flame bait. It's okay General, I flame to entertain myself too. Management would like us all to think they decide today what they will do tomorrow but I will not take a hit off their crack pipe, thanks all the same. They can announce the decision they made last year any time they want, they ain't gettin' a dime of cocession from moi!

 

[jetflyer]

I agree with DDpaysoff, the planes will go to Comair and ASA.

-Mesa has 90 seaters, so they won't get the new CRJs. Delta's Scope agreement simply won't allow them to fly Delta code share. THANK GOD!
-CHQ won't get them I bet because their bid will probably be higher than others due to the fact they don't fly CRJs but ERJs. They'd have to start up a whole new training program, etc. Very costly proposition.

With ASA/Comair doing the flying Delta doesn't have to split the profits with someone else. They get them all.

I think this whole thing was just a PLOY to get ASA/Comair guys and gals to give up pay. I bet Delta Management will look back on this and say "OH WELL THAT DIDN'T WORK" and give ASA/Comair an equal number of the planes in the future.

For the sake of the industry let's hope I'm right or bottom feeding will continue forever.

Jet

 

[TWAER]

-CHQ won't get them I bet because they're bid will probably be higher than others due to the fact they don't fly CRJs but ERJs. They'd have to start up a whole new training program, etc. Very costly proposition.

Jet

Maybe I missed something, but do the planes have to be CRJ's???

 

[Sam Fisher]

Maybe I missed something, but do the planes have to be CRJ's???

No, they don't. Furthermore, CHQ, as you know, already flies ERJ's for Delta down in MCO, so new "training program" needs to be written up, not that that was a valid concern anyways.

ExpressJet is another Embraer operator who submitted a bid for these 45 jets. Time will tell.

Sam

 

[bailout]

S.B. and D.B. both said that they were indeed CRJs, not ERJs or the DoJs.

 

[sweptback]

Also, numerous industry sources have stated that the 45 jets are conversions of the options that DCI has on the CRJ 200. IIRC DCI has to convert the options 15 months ahead of time, therefore the delivery is expected in 2005.

This makes sense, because to hold an option for a delivery slot requires a payment. Why forfeit all the money paid so they can go to Embraer and probably wait the same amount of time before delivery? Several options for 2004 delivery slots have already lapsed, anyway. I'm sure DCI doesn't want to see more of them evaporate.

Put me in the camp that thinks the jets will end up at ASA or Comair.

 

[FlyingDawg]

CHQ will get some of these jets. They only bid on 20 of the 45 aircraft. Union is stating that some will go the CHQ. It also might explain why they are still hiring.


I bet 15 go to CHQ to replace NE ACA flying, and DFW flying is withdrawn. CHQ rumors are that CHQ will close maint. in DFW.

 

[captainv]

i've heard that the 45 jets are CRJ options, but that doesn't mean DCI couldn't sell them and have CHQ convert them to ERJs.

i wouldn't be surprised to see the jets split between CHQ, ASA and CMR. actually, ASA might get stiffed initially since they're in renegotiation. i doubt DCI wants to grow them much while they've got the contract open.

would anybody put it past DCI to, say, threaten to give all the jets to CHQ/CMR unless ASA gives up something they're asking for? and then do the same thing to CMR in two years when our contract's up?

 

[TWAER]

Heard the same rumor this weekend on a JFK base for CHQ and 15 more ERJ's for Delta. Also going to withdraw for the most part out of DFW. Take it for what it is worth.

 

[General Lee]

Could this be what you mean TWAER?



Delta Connection Announces Schedule Adjustments in Dallas/Fort Worth
Monday December 29, 11:23 am ET
Additional Flights Increase Service Options for Customers


DALLAS and FORT WORTH, Texas, Dec. 29 /PRNewswire-FirstCall/ -- Delta Connection will make schedule adjustments in Delta Air Lines' (NYSE: DAL - News) hub in Dallas/Fort Worth to improve connection times for customers and increase Delta Connection departures to 11 existing cities by a total of 13 flights.


Customers traveling between Dallas/Fort Worth and the following cities will enjoy more frequency of flights: Alexandria, La.; Colorado Springs, Colo.; El Paso, Texas; Houston-Intercontinental; Lexington, Ky.; Oklahoma City and Tulsa, Okla.; Ontario, Calif.; Phoenix; and Pensacola and Ft. Walton Beach, Fla.

The changes will be effective in February and March 2004. Delta Connection carriers Atlantic Southeast Airlines (ASA), Chautauqua and SkyWest will operate the flights with the Bombardier and Embraer CRJ/ERJ regional jets.

"The changes at Dallas/Fort Worth will better match capacity to demand and provide customers with a better selection of frequencies, convenient connections and expanded travel options," said Fred Buttrell, president and chief executive officer, Delta Connection, Inc. "These adjustments are part of continuous improvement at the hub, and add further enhancements to the schedule."

As part of the schedule adjustments, Columbus, Ohio, and Louisville, Ky., will no longer have nonstop service from Dallas/Fort Worth. Customers may access the two cities via one stop service through Cincinnati and Atlanta.

Delta Connection includes Delta's wholly owned subsidiaries Atlantic Southeast Airlines and Comair, additional regional carriers Atlantic Coast Airlines, Chautauqua Airlines and SkyWest Airlines, and codeshare partner American Eagle (in California). Delta Connection carriers operate more than 380 regional jets throughout North America. For more information, please contact delta.com.

Bye Bye--General Lee