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Delta pulls a fast one

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lowecur

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 14, 2003
Posts
2,317
They've matched AA's free ticket deal, and have now followed AA in matching B6 on $69. fares. However, read DL's fine print: they will exclude free ticket deal on T fares (the lowest bucket). So they will have plenty of ticked off pax who buy these tickets thinking they will get a free one. Classic bait and switch. Bad credibility.

It should be noted that DALPA has threatened to break off negotiations with DL if a renegotiated contract cannot be reached shortly. This means no deal until 2005, and big losses will continue.
 
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Lowecur,

Ok, here we go again. First of all, this promotion has its limitations. You must always read the fine print, didn't your Mom ever tell you that? If she didn't, I have a bridge I could sell you for CHEAP. (think about it, would we give up a free ticket to Europe for someone who buys two roundtrips for $69 each way? Then we really would lose money....)

Next, the Dalpa issue is important because if we continue to negotiate while the company does not take anything we say seriously, and we finally start section 6 negotiations in NOV---the company can say to an arbitrator that "we have been negotiating for 1 straight year (even though they haven't really come to the table)---and we need arbitration now..." Nope. We have to allow a significant amount of time between negotiating now and the start of Sec 6. in NOV---or we could get squeezed. We are in contact with the CFO right now with our investment bank that we hired which has looked at the books and has figured out exactly how much we should give to help. (The exact amount that would get us the needed financing to help the debt) We are ready to help now, but if they delay any longer---it will be their fault because we know the correct numbers. Also, our losses are getting smaller and smaller with the improving economy. Yes, we will show some sort of a loss tomorrow, but it will be a lot less than the other quarters (especially compared to last years fourth quarter loss). We had a good DEC (holiday season), and hopefully things will get better. But, if they do, then lowecur won't have anything to write about....

Bye Bye--General Lee:rolleyes: ;)


PS--Here's a part of an article I just got off the Dalpa web site--written by some guy from "The Street":

Analysts predict Delta Air Lines (DAL:NYSE - commentary - research) will show deep losses when it releases fourth-quarter results on Wednesday morning, but expectations are rising that the carrier will be able to turn things around in 2004.

Wall Street expects the company to lose $1.66 a share in the fourth quarter, which would be an improvement over the loss of $1.90 it had a year earlier and the loss of $3.97 it had in the final quarter of 2001.


While quarterly results from Delta and other carriers will likely show improvement, analysts have been stressing that the airline industry isn't out of the woods yet, and they predict the network carriers will lose more than $1 billion in the fourth quarter.

"Next week, the airlines will be reporting fourth-quarter earnings [or] losses. Different from last quarter, we do not expect results to beat the Street's expectations by large margins," said David Strine, airline analyst at Bear Stearns, in a research note. "We forecast losses for the legacy network carriers."

Nonetheless, the monthly results leading up to the fourth-quarter earnings season have shown improvement. October results showed the expected seasonal drop-off, but a strong Thanksgiving travel season fueled a solid November and carried over into December, surprising analysts. Of note was higher-than-expected traffic, which is a measure of revenue, and load factor, which is the percentage of seats filled on every flight.

With Delta having released December results on Jan. 6, analysts and investors already have an idea of what to expect Wednesday. Adding up Delta's results for the last three months of 2003 reveals fourth-quarter traffic should show a 3.4% gain over last year, while capacity will fall by 1.8%, both signs of improvement.

After a strong December, Wall Street analysts have raised their loss estimates above Delta's previously announced guidance.


also:
"We're seeing a good recovery in the economy, which should benefit the airlines as we move into the stronger spring season," said Ray Neidl, an analyst at Blaylock & Partners. And should oil come down to $27 or $28 a barrel, the two elements together could help the sector rally."
 
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poor General, one of the few Delta pilots on this board to stand up for Delta against all the "Self Proclaimed Armchair Aviation Expert Quarter Backs"......your wife must hate the "affair" you are having with this message board ;).
 
General!

I just noticed you have 1727 posts!!

Has anyone approached you about having an addiction.

Step away from the computer....easy now...step away.

There has got to be more in your life.

SWAdude:cool:
 
I can't do it....I can't....I won't...I mean I can't.....And, I actually do other things each day when I am not flying. I like to workout at the local gym (pump my arms up for writing on the keyboard), and I bike when it is not cold (with the wife). No, some days I am on this board more than others, and I still look at it sometimes between flights in the crew lounge. My laptop is an older version and isn't very reliable sometimes.....so I would be on more on my layovers if I had a newer one.

What can I say, I am very interested in this industry (not just Delta and Jetblue), and I enjoy giving my opinion. Yeah, I know 1727 is a big number, but I like to voice my opinion....

Bye Bye--General Lee:cool:


PS---My wife does get frustrated sometimes, but I make up for it later... And, I am a "Gold Level Donor" on this site....
 
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General

What's the latest talk about returning some furloughs to work? My friend is furloughed from D and I would like to see him back at work, but I'm a little embarrassed to keep asking him about it.
 
Nindiri,

I would love to have them all come back NOW. But, the company would rather keep the productivity higher, even though we are returning 8-10% capacity this year. We did recall 250 pilots recently, but that was more or less forced on the company. The arbitrator's first ruling said that we would have to call pilots back when the RPM levels hit pre-9-11 levels again, and that number is approaching again thanks to the CO/NW codeshare. If we get another large chunk of retirements again like we did last SEP, then we might call some back sooner than later. Otherwise, the company will not do it unless they have to. Management wants to get rid of the no furlough clause in these upcoming negotiations, but I have been told by MEC memebers that that would NOT happen. We are willing to give some pay, though. I hope your friend does come back soon.

Bye Bye--General Lee:rolleyes:
 
General Lee said:
Lowecur,

Ok, here we go again. First of all, this promotion has its limitations. You must always read the fine print, didn't your Mom ever tell you that? If she didn't, I have a bridge I could sell you for CHEAP. (think about it, would we give up a free ticket to Europe for someone who buys two roundtrips for $69 each way? Then we really would lose money....)
The problem is General, much of the flying public is none too bright. Many of them are making their reservations on the computer based on the press release, and assume DL is acting in good faith. Now AA is not throwing in a caveat; they will honor the lowest fare in their deal. This is just another example of an inane management style still being practiced by many of the legacys. You should give your management people the same code of ethics practiced by WN, B6, and to their credit - the new AA.
 
Lowecur,

I don't write up that stuff, I just fly the plane. After I land in FLL or wherever, I probably won't say to the passengers, "Hey, you might want to read the fine print in regards to the promo deal out of BOS/JFK/LGA...." I hope they ask or read it on the internet site. They have to print that stuff. So, overall, it won't be a super money losing gimmick afterall....

Bye Bye--General Lee:rolleyes: ;) ;) ;)
 
General Lee said:
Lowecur,

Next, the Dalpa issue is important because if we continue to negotiate while the company does not take anything we say seriously, and we finally start section 6 negotiations in NOV---the company can say to an arbitrator that "we have been negotiating for 1 straight year (even though they haven't really come to the table)---and we need arbitration now..." Nope. We have to allow a significant amount of time between negotiating now and the start of Sec 6. in NOV---or we could get squeezed. We are in contact with the CFO right now with our investment bank that we hired which has looked at the books and has figured out exactly how much we should give to help. (The exact amount that would get us the needed financing to help the debt) We are ready to help now, but if they delay any longer---it will be their fault because we know the correct numbers. Also, our losses are getting smaller and smaller with the improving economy. Yes, we will show some sort of a loss tomorrow, but it will be a lot less than the other quarters (especially compared to last years fourth quarter loss). We had a good DEC (holiday season), and hopefully things will get better. But, if they do, then lowecur won't have anything to write about....
Playing hardball with a management team that is more than willing to take this so called "negotiation" to Chapt 11, is at best short sighted. They will just let the losses keep rolling in and go directly to 11.

DL has almost $13B in debt, and they will need profit margins of between 7-11% just to service it in the next 10 years. Short term notes due this year are $1B alone. Where is the money to service this going to come from if the payroll isn't in line with AMR or UAL? This is beginning to sound like EAL all over again.
 
General-

"Management may want to get rid of the no furlough clause, blah, blah, blah"

I imagine that there are quite a few individuals (I know three) who feel that "the no furlough clause" doesn't exist anyway.

de pez
 
"Management may want to get rid of the no furlough clause, blah, blah, blah"

I imagine that there are quite a few individuals (I know three) who feel that "the no furlough clause" doesn't exist anyway.


I agree about the furlough protection not existing as a furloughee, however.... If there were no protection at all, their would be many more people on the street. Especially, if managements first request out of the whole deal was for the elimination of the furlough clause.

Doesn't look good to me, leaving for HPA this weekend.

Peace out-
 
Lowecur,

What you don't seem to understand is that management would be sued by every shareholder if they just took us in to Chap 11. That would make all of the shares worthless---and they aren't allowed to do that. They have to take every possible avenue to avoid that--or else be sued by Johnie Cochran and other attorney types. You can't just pull that rabbit out of the hat. And, that money due this year also can be refinanced I believe. That is why we are negotiating. And, Eastern didn't own their regionals like Comair and ASA, which could easily be sold off (and still sign a ten year agreement for services) and used for extra cash if needed. United only owned part of Air Wisconsin--we own two very large regionals fully. Yes, we will post a loss tomorrow, but we still have plenty of cash (AOL has $20 billion in debt, and Fedex has $12 billion), and as long as you can service your debt---you can survive another day. Our investment bank that we hired knows how to handle this, and we have offered our help to management. I just don't think they would report anything positive when asking us for cuts? Doesn't that make sense? They will report anything and everything bad right now---and then miraculously---after we give cuts--things get BETTER. Then management gets their bonuses.... (Although we have stipulated that NO management bonuses without giving everyone else something too---no wonder they don't want to talk...but they will---the new CEO has his ego on the line now--and he does want to talk) And, we only have one union. Any more $$$ cuts from the 10,000 mechanics or 14,000 flight attendants with no union or contract?? That is flexibility. Other airlines DO NOT HAVE IT.


de pez,

Without it, we would have twice as many on the street--no doubt


Bye Bye--General Lee.:rolleyes: ;)
 
Did someone rename this string the "Let's all bash General Lee" string? Because that's what it is sounding like.

Some of you guys are even bashing him because of the number of posts he has made? Give me a break. I'll bet a lot of those posts were pre-9/11 when he was answering questions for guys trying to get on at DAL.

I'm all for pelting the occaisional Village Idiot with an egg, a tomato, or an empty beer can, but leave the General alone, for crying out loud, he's no Village Idiot (I've become an expert at identifying them, it seems).

Geez, you know it's gotten way out of line when an AirTran guy has to say "quit picking on the Delta guy" (or vice versa).
 
No Ty Day

Ty Webb said:

Some of you guys are even bashing him because of the number of posts he has made? Give me a break. I'll bet a lot of those posts were pre-9/11 when he was answering questions for guys trying to get on at DAL.
Another Wizard heard from. Check the date the General signed on.
 
Amazing. One only need say the words "Village Idiot" and Joe Peeonotz appears.

Well, Joe, I've been posting to this board since 1996, but you won't see that anywhere.

Squawk, Squawk, Thump.
 
Thanks Ty----sometimes it does seem like me against the World. I am not blind here, I know that we have some rather large problems at Delta, and I am try to point out some good things too. We are willing to give some pay back---so don't slam us for not knowing what really is going on. We have Alpa working for us---let them represent us. Thanks again Ty for backing me up.


Joe P,

Yeah, I admit that I spend a lot of time on this board, and I am very interested in this whole industry. I donated money to this website, and I have the right to voive my opinion. The reason I have so many posts is because I am defending myself a lot. Hey, I just love my job and enjoy flying. I also like voicing my opinion. If you don't like it---then hit the ignore button.

Bye Bye--General Lee;) :rolleyes:
 
Un-Ty-Dee

Ty Webb said:
Amazing. One only need say the words "Village Idiot" and Joe Peeonotz appears.

Well, Joe, I've been posting to this board since 1996, but you won't see that anywhere.

Squawk, Squawk, Thump.
Let me guess genius, your nickname is Sybil.
 
You lost me there Joe.....(check out how many posts I have now...)

Bye Bye--General Lee:rolleyes:
 
Mr. Lee

General Lee said:
Joe P,

Yeah, I admit that I spend a lot of time on this board, and I am very interested in this whole industry. I donated money to this website, and I have the right to voive my opinion. The reason I have so many posts is because I am defending myself a lot. Hey, I just love my job and enjoy flying. I also like voicing my opinion. If you don't like it---then hit the ignore button.

Bye Bye--General Lee;) :rolleyes:
Mr. Lee, I meant no offense. But since you've seem to taken some, I must say you two may be joined at the hip and could very well be the same person. Have you both thought of what it would be like with you in the left seat and Ty in the right. You both would be trying so hard to get in a word, that the plane would never leave the gate. :D :D :D
 

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