DELTA Pilots to ask for Pref Hiring

[rjcap]

Todays Cincinnati Enquirer newspaper

http://enquirer.com/editions/2002/11/01/biz_comdelt01.html

http://enquirer.com/editions/2002/11/01/biz_comdelt01.html

 

[ACE]

That is going to create a lot of problems ie. a large gap when they are recalled. If they do get to come to Comair, I just hope they don't come with a attitude. There is already enough resentment toward each other in both pilot groups. In my own opinion, I don't care if the Delta pilots come to Comair. However, I personally think they should resign their Seniority numbers at Delta. Or I want preferential hiring at Delta and the right to keep my Comair seniority number. Of coarse that would never happen, so I think there is going to be a lot of problems amongest the Comair pilot group with this one. I know the pilots are not the ones making the decsion with this, but it does not mean we have to be nice about it.

 

[FlyDeltasJets]

Don't worry ace, not too many of us want any part of this. Most of us have been there, done that, and don't need any more turbine time. Commuting to reserve for first year CMR pay is not something most of us need to do again.

Thanks for the good wishes, though.

 

[JetLee]

Well FDJ, that's just the kind of arrogant BS we might expected to hear from a self rightous "Delta" (note quotations) pilot who thinks he has the world by the balls. "Been there done that have you........well I'd like to Biggie size my order, thank you. Been there done that too?

You know, I personally am happy that some more options are being opened up for SOME of the furloughed mainline pilots and would welcome them here at CRM. I usually like reading your posts because it's nice to hear both sides of the story, but you ruined all your credibility with your holyer than thou attitude. For someone who has been there for 3 years maximum you sure think you got it all don't you? How did you say you came up and out of the muck?!? Chances are most of us here at CMR have been there done that too.

Good luck to you sir.......I hope you and yours fares well with your new career whatever it is.................(Home Depot)....Oooops did I say that outloud?!?

 

[350DRIVER]

In defense to the FDJ post one must understand that HE has paid his dues and earned the right to become a DAL pilot. What is wrong with him NOT wanting to step back down to the regional level.? I would assume that he has ALREADY been there and done that for quite a few years and just doesn't want to do it "again".... I do completely agree with the previous post concerning the resignation issue of a senority number IF one would want to go back and buy time till they are called back to mainline.- It is only "fair" in my opinion.


We have a furloughed Airways 37/57/67 f.o. who is making the best of the current situation and flying with us and CAN'T take the pay cut to go "back" down to the w.o. since he now has a family to support. Their is alot more than meets the naked eye and I don't think that FDJ has a bad attitude about this.

3 5 0

 

[rodeopilot]

I dont fly for DAL or any of its subsidiaries, but I have many friends that do/did. I dont think the tone of some of the above posts lent respect to either side of the coin in this issue. Obviously, there is some bad blood between the two groups, but it is easy to see both sides of the issue when youre on the outside looking in.

Imagine scraping your whole life to finally earn that big job that will ensure your retirement and allow you to live the life you dream of......then the unthinkable happens. You now get an unemployment check that doesnt even cover your mortgage let alone the power, gas, cable, phone.......It would be anyones worst nightmare, minus cancer or something life threatening. Its not the end of the world, but it almost seems that way especially when you have a family looking to you for support.

Then on the other hand you have the guys that are still scraping. The guys that are still flying the six leg days, or working on RJ wages hoping for that big jet check. Many of those guys want to wear the double breasted coat and Captain Steubing hat and march proudly through the terminal as a Delta pilot. Whats wrong with that? Well the Delta pilot group has never been know for its graciousness towards the commuter pilot crowd, nor being especially friendly towards its own regional affiliates. In the eyes of the regional guys DAL is again imposing on it for something good for its employees, but not necessarily good for the regional pilots or their coworkers. Are Comair pilots given preferential treatment at Delta? I dont know that, but I know some guys and gals at Continental Express that lost their seats to CAL pilots who never worked at COEX in their life. The furloughed express pilots have no preference at CAL, but as soon as the hiring starts up again, whammo, those pilots go back to cal and leave the commuters behind again. No flow through for the express bunch though. Sound about par?

It never seems fair when your the one taking it up the pipe, but if youre healthy and can work to support your family, my hat is off to you. I chose a path that had more job security with less compensation, and Im glad I did. The money has never been that important, because I never had it. I have a great time, my pay is good, the planes are maintained top notch. My coworkers are a great bunch, and management is on the ball. I wish for nothing but good health for my family. I hope for all of you that you are returned to your positions, and that you achieve what you have set out for. There is nothing quite like living your dreams, even if you went in the weeds a few times getting there. You will just appreciate it more. Best of luck.

 

[B737G]

Ace, I am curious as to why you or any other ComAsa pilot cares if a Delta pilot resigns his seniority # at DAL before coming over. They would be at the bottom of your list so, how does this in any way affect you? I would have no problem with you coming to DAL if furloughed from ComaAsa and retaining your seniority #. The difference is that most of you would not go back. Like FDJ, I could care less if this works out because I would never go back to ASA. For many of us, the commuters served a purpose and that was to get to the majors. Been there, done that!

 

[FlyDeltasJets]

JetLee,

Think you might need to settle down a bit?

My post was in response to a poster who told us that he wouldn't be "nice" about any Delta pilot coming to CMR. I thought that was kind of a poor attitude, being that someone below him would not affect him one bit. However, if he wants to be a jerk about it, that is certainly his right. I wrote simply to reassure him that there wasn't going to be too many guys taking advantage of this offer.

As for my "holier than thou" attitude, I think you might be a little bit sensitive. I in no way disparaged anyone at CMR, I merely pointed out that my years at a regional were not something that I feel that I need to repeat. The money was tight, the schedule was tough, and I would have to commute. Why would I do that again when I have secured other employment (not Home Depot, although that was classy) that is paying me far more than I could earn at CMR (regardless of the seat)? Plus, I am home every night, which enables me to spend more time with my wife, as well as take classes in pursuit of my MBA. Most in my position have taken advantage of similar opportunities. Does than make us special? No. Does anyone care? No. I only bring it up to explain why I believe that very few of us would take advantage of this offer, and to reassure ace (and apparently you) that he would not have to put up with any "self-righteous" Delta pilots.

P.S.
Many on this board look for insult when none was intended, than feel compelled to respond in kind. I do my best not to stoop to that level.

PPS
Apparently you doubt my "Delta" status. If it makes you feel any better, doubt away. I don't need to defend my status or qualifications, and if I cared enough, I might even resent the implication.

PPPS
And, yeah, I have BTTD in regards to your biggie size comment. I had to take quite a few jobs to pay for my flight training. It was honest work, and I'm proud to have done it

 

[Marko Ramius]

FDJ isn't arrogant, just realistic

I don't think FDJ was trying to disparage Comair or any other regional airline. We all make sacrifices to get whatever job in this industry we're pursuing. As you go up the ladder, you generally make more money-excepting first year regional pay for some and many career changers. We don't always notice that our lifestyle increases along with those pay increases-if only subtlely and it's not only the majors like most people assume. I just listened to several people who were in the process of upgrading to CRJ Cap talk about what kind of boat they were going to buy. Not a bid deal, and more power to them if they can get the things they want in life however I bet those guys would have a tough time financially going back to first year pay. Same goes for most furloughed major airline pilots. They tended to be either in the upper part of the seniority list as Captains at regionals, corporate jobs, or coming off a long military career. They may or may not have spent to the limits of their paychecks, but their lives were built around their former jobs not first year pay at regional. I found it alot easier to live off no money in college or first year regional pay on the way up, than on the way back down-and I don't even have things like a wife, kids, house, boats, etc like most of these people do. It's still hard to flip a switch and make your budget fit first year regional pay overnight-only big business gets away with that! For that reason alone, FDJ is probably right there won't be a huge number of takers initially for Comair spots. I think someone posted on another thread that only about 100?? furloughed NW pilots applied for the Pinnacle deal so that's a pretty good indication of what might happen.

The wild card IMO however is UAL. The industry has so far survived the direct effects of UsAirways bancruptcy without much changing-this hasn't been a Continental in'83 so far. This probably owes to the fact that UsAirways continues to shrink instead of maintain status or grow, that they are one of the smaller majors, and are largely isolated on one half of the country. UAL is a different story though, whatever the UA pilots do with their concession plan will have likely have big time effects on the pilots at the rest of the majors outside of WN. Depending on the type of relief offered, this could mean even more pilots on the street for all and for a longer period of time than originally anticipated. This could drive some people who feel that this is a short term thing(yes there are those out there who believe that), into finding a way to bite the bullet and go to a regional. Possibly by saving money up in another job to be able to last through that first year-I know of at least one guy who is doing just that. Before anybody starts playing compare the balance sheets/airline to UA it's not about that. It's about the fact this industry plays follow the leader alot, both up and down, and when one of the bigger players moves it is bound to have effects on the others.

 

[General Lee]

Ace,

Nice attitude! I guess you would be against helping someone out (being put at the bottom of your list by the way) when something terrible (furlough) happens to them. I have a feeling that they would be greatful to have a job, and those who were cocky would be weeded out in the hiring process. And to top it off, you want them to give up their senority number at Delta? You must be smokin some crack!! God, I sure am glad I paid all of that extra money for you guys during your unsuccessful strike.


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[DAL737FO]

Jetlee,

By your UH-60 time and military in flying background I would assume you are a former Army Pilot. I would have hoped you would have been above the Home Depot remark. Let's raise the standard not lower it.

DAL737FO
furloughed but would gladly work at Home Depot to support my family

 

[JetLee]

OK,your right. My remarks to FDJ were in poor taste, and I apologize. I should learn my lesson and not read this messageboard after I've had a few.

Don't worry, I'm sober now. It's just beyond me why some people would think it's such a step backwards to at least have an income and be flying instead of waiting around for what will certainly be years before flying the heavier iron again. I personally think it would be great to have those individuals that want to be here working here. No I don't think it would be worth it if they had to start at first year pay, but very fair if they simply were coming in at the bottom of our seniority list with DOH for pay only. Don't ask me how to get management to buy into that though. Noone wants to see these folks on the streets. Thats just plain bad for everyone.

To answer a previous posters question...

The problem about keeping their DAL seniority is that most may very well be around to vote on OUR next contract! See the conflict of interests? That is the ONLY negative thing I can think of about it, otherwise most of us could give a rats a$$ if they keep it or not.

P.S. By the way I worked at someplace very similar to Home Depot duirng our 3 month strike to help support my family (whatever it takes right?).......

 

[NYRANGERS]

A Diplomatic approach

I am going to try to be a little diplomatic about the situation.

ACE, YOU ARE A FU#$ING AS$HOLE. Try to get a little self confidence. You will never be hired by anyone so you will not have to worry about your little Comair seniority #.

PISS OFF

 

[General Lee]

NYRangers,

Hey bud, settle down alittle. I don't know about you, but I flew at a Delta commuter and I knew how it felt to be looked down upon by a Delta guy. Now I am at Delta, and I never look down on anybody. That really is the difference, whether or not you flew at a regional. The guys who flew F15's or P3's may never know what it is like to fly 7 legs a day in "the crap" and get paid squat. (Sure, they know what it is like to get shot at, or fly at 10 ft above water looking for Russian subs at night....) Anyways...
It comes down to this: if a Delta guy is furloughed and WANTS a job at Comair, on the bottom, he should be allowed an interview.
When Delta was hiring big time in 1996, guess what? I got an interview. There you go. I got to leave the Delta regional, leaving a spot for you junior guys, and moved on. There are a lot of ex-Comair, ex-ASA guys at Delta, and they did not discriminate in hiring back then. As far as the voting rights during contract negotiations---maybe that should be brought into the hiring process. If furloughed Delta guys want to get on with Comair/ASA and intend on going back to Delta eventually, maybe they can abstain from voting---and sign it on the dotted line.
There you go.

Bye Bye-----General Lee

 

[General Lee]

NYRangers,

Oh yeah, concerning Ace-----he is a jerk. Guys like that won't last long, or will never get to the majors. Most of the Comair/ASA guys/gals are not like that. That guy is on Crack.

Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[Rush Limbaugh]

It's just beyond me why some people would think it's such a step backwards to at least have an income and be flying instead of waiting around for what will certainly be years before flying the heavier iron again.

JetLee,

The reason you don't understand is because for your entire professional life, you have seen people get out of flying never to return. In order to get a good job, you had to keep flying and take the bad deals. All you want to do right now is fly airplanes because you haven't reached what you believe to be the pinnacle of your career. You want to fly the "big iron" and you need the experience from a regional to realize the dream. If a Delta 737 pilot has an ultimate goal of being a 767 captain, going back to a regional will do nothing in helping him reach that goal. He can either take a good paying, non-flying job waiting out the furlough or he can take a low paying job he probably doesn't like in the first place and in the meantime he can file bankruptcy. Either way, he is not going to realize his dream any faster but by not flying, his family has a fighting chance of staying together and he doesn't have to take a huge hit in lifestyle.

Of course, what do I know, I'm not even an airline pilot.

Fly Safe

 

[michael707767]

The problem about keeping their DAL seniority is that most may very well be around to vote on OUR next contract! See the conflict of interests? That is the ONLY negative thing I can think of about it, otherwise most of us could give a rats a$$ if they keep it or not.

Yeah, the 50 or 60 furloughed DAL guys who may end up at CMR will change the outcome. Give me a break. If you are so concerned about it, make it a requirement that a pilot who retains seniority somewhere else is not allowed to vote in union matters.