Delta Pilots Coming After DCI Flying

[storminpilot]

http://forums.flightinfo.com/showthread.php?t=74284

The parties have reached tentative agreements on the following issues:

An initial 12-year Captain rate on the EMB-190 of $95.70.

 

[Blucher]

Say What?

http://forums.flightinfo.com/showthread.php?t=74284

The parties have reached tentative agreements on the following issues:

An initial 12-year Captain rate on the EMB-190 of $95.70.

Storminpilot,

What are you talking about? Crack is wack, ease off the pipe! It's Delta's flying to begin with! We're the one's who've been "stealing" it, and that's only because they were too stupid to realize they were opening a huge can of worms when these RJ's first showed up. They still hold the power to have a better contract at mainline than we'll get within the next 50 years at the regionals. More planes at mainline = more mainline pilots required = more better jobs.

-Blucher

 

[CFIT]

http://forums.flightinfo.com/showthread.php?t=74284


They also continue to seek
major changes in our scope protections with no corresponding credit. In
other words, management in reality demands over one-half billion dollars
in the restructuring of our PWA.


The parties have reached tentative agreements on the following issues:
An initial 12-year Captain rate on the EMB-190 of $95.70.
.

I pulled this off of the other thread. The bulk of the update is pretty un-specific, it seems odd that this would be right in the middle and after the comment threatening scope.

Could be bait-

 

[wmuflyguy]

Could be bait-

NOOO!! Not on Flight Info!??! (Sarcasm alert)

 

[Axel]

Definitely bait. Besides, 90-seaters are mainline airplanes. Painting "Express" or "Connection" on the fuselage is a shell game that fools fewer and fewer of us, both commuter and mainline, every passing day.

</=50 seats: commuter
>50 seats: mainline

Well actually, in a perfect world everything would be mainline, but that bell can't be unrung.

 

[AVoiceOfReason]

Everyone needs to wake up - the mainline pilots are underbidding the regionals now. How can we expect more at ASA?

 

[BenderGonzales]

What is the definition of DCI flying?

 

[wmuflyguy]

What is the definition of DCI flying?

Whatever Delta says it is.

 

[Nindiri]

Actually, all the flying belongs to Delta and they can assign it to whichever pilots they wish. Pilots only "own" the flying they negotiate.

 

[outtahere]

When the ego of mainline let the flying and airplanes go, it became our flying. Of course our is a broad term meaning the lowest bidder of the day. Avoice of reason, SHUT UP. If you want less go to mesa.

 

[Texx]

Everyone needs to wake up - the mainline pilots are underbidding the regionals now. How can we expect more at ASA?

Uh, don't we fly FOR DAL? So if the DAL pilots want the flying let them have it.

I bet your willing to sell your wife for more flying that isn't ours in the first place.

 

[SkyBoy1981]

What are you talking about? Crack is wack, ease off the pipe! It's Delta's flying to begin with! We're the one's who've been "stealing" it, and that's only because they were too stupid to realize they were opening a huge can of worms when these RJ's first showed up. They still hold the power to have a better contract at mainline than we'll get within the next 50 years at the regionals. More planes at mainline = more mainline pilots required = more better jobs.

I'm glad you typed this, it saved me the energy. How can someone steal something that was their's in the first place?

 

[737 Pylt]

Delta Pilots Coming After DCI Flying ! LMAO!!

http://forums.flightinfo.com/showthread.php?t=74284

The parties have reached tentative agreements on the following issues:

An initial 12-year Captain rate on the EMB-190 of $95.70.

I love how posters flaim with titles like this! Stormin, please explain to me how DL pilots are trying to "go after" flying that's yours?? Where in your CBA does it state that "all Delta flying" is subject to your PWA?? So by YOUR logic, routes that I flew back in 1999 on DEX that are now on rj's are flying that was flying stolen by DCI??!!
You should change this thread title to "I'm trying to flame DL pilots."
737

 

[Bizjet]

Everyone needs to wake up - the mainline pilots are underbidding the regionals now. How can we expect more at ASA?

Ask Joe Merchant. He will explain how it all works. He will even tell you how he predicted this several years ago. Of course he can't prove any of his B.S. Is there a rule that mainline pilots are not allowed to compete for flying? I am more worried about regional MEC's gutting their contracts for growth. You can also ask Joe Merchant about how that works as well. He is managements mouth piece for give backs for growth and union bashing all in one. Do an emergency descent to your knees the next time you see Bryan L. in the crew lounge. You may actually get a head!

 

[D'Angelo]

When the ego of mainline let the flying and airplanes go, it became our flying. Of course our is a broad term meaning the lowest bidder of the day. Avoice of reason, SHUT UP. If you want less go to mesa.

Regional pilots now complaining about being underbid by mainline? Oh the irony

 

[General Lee]

Everyone needs to wake up - the mainline pilots are underbidding the regionals now. How can we expect more at ASA?

Do you think we like these rates? Jetblue started it, and it wasn't their pilots' fault, management established the rate before they even got any of those E190s. But what do you expect? A LCC that is doing well establishes a 100 seat rate as a benchmark, and now even the regionals will have to compare their new rates on 50 and 70 seaters to it. Don't blame us, we have to compete with them, and now so do you.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[Mercyful Fate]

Wow, General im shocked you didnt think this was Skywests fault somehow.

 

[N2264J]

Do you think we like these rates? Jetblue started it, and it wasn't their pilots' fault, management established the rate before they even got any of those E190s.

Actually, it was started by US Airways pilots and ALPA with the Jets for Jobs scheme at Mid Atlantic. First year Eagle 70 seat rates as I recall. jetBlue just followed ALPA's lead.

 

[General Lee]

Actually, it was started by US Airways pilots and ALPA with the Jets for Jobs scheme at Mid Atlantic. First year Eagle 70 seat rates as I recall. jetBlue just followed ALPA's lead.

Every plane has a benchmark, and for the 100 seater, it is Jetblue. MDA had 70 seaters, and they set them to Eagle's rates. We can compare 70 seat rates to different airlines, but when the 100 seat rates at Jetblue are low, then every new 70 seat contract will go down below it to compete. How can you justify (the Airline negotiator asks) a 70 seat wage above a 100 seat wage at a successful LCC? Expect your 70 seat rates to never get above those 100 seat rates. If you want higher, you need to start over and move to another airline, like CAL. At a major you may start lower or have a 100 seat rate like Jetblue's, but then you can eventually move up to a widebody and supposedly make more. At a regional your cap will probably be below JB's 100 seat rate.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[SSDD]

So with all this talk about 100 seaters, does that mean that Jerry Atkin will get his 79 seaters after all?

 

[ohplease!]

So with all this talk about 100 seaters, does that mean that Jerry Atkin will get his 79 seaters after all?

yes it does.

 

[General Lee]

So with all this talk about 100 seaters, does that mean that Jerry Atkin will get his 79 seaters after all?

No, it does not. Our main goal is scope since most of our senior guys are retired. We have a junior airline now, and scope is needed. If ALPA gets a TA that includes 79 seaters for SkyWest, it is likely the MAJORITY will vote it down. The senior guys who didn't care about RJs are GONE. That is NOT the case at NW. They didn't have the lump sum option like we did, when we lost 2300 loyalists in 18 months. IT will be a hard sell, and unlikely to happen.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[SSDD]

So what's your 70 seater rate?

 

[General Lee]

So what's your 70 seater rate?

There is no 70 seat rate, and we will likely give you more of those. As far as anything bigger than 70, that would have to be negotiated. I bet we could come up with one. What is NW's 76 seat rate or 77 seat rate? We don't know. Air Canada mainline flies the E175 and the E190---I think those are 75 and 100 seaters. (or maybe less seats with First Class)

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[800Dog]

Every plane has a benchmark, and for the 100 seater, it is Jetblue. MDA had 70 seaters, and they set them to Eagle's rates. We can compare 70 seat rates to different airlines, but when the 100 seat rates at Jetblue are low, then every new 70 seat contract will go down below it to compete. How can you justify (the Airline negotiator asks) a 70 seat wage above a 100 seat wage at a successful LCC? Expect your 70 seat rates to never get above those 100 seat rates. If you want higher, you need to start over and move to another airline, like CAL. At a major you may start lower or have a 100 seat rate like Jetblue's, but then you can eventually move up to a widebody and supposedly make more. At a regional your cap will probably be below JB's 100 seat rate.


Bye Bye--General Lee

General,
Why is Airtran's 100 seat rate not the benchmark? Are they not as succesful a LCC as Jetblue?

 

[General Lee]

General,
Why is Airtran's 100 seat rate not the benchmark? Are they not as succesful a LCC as Jetblue?

I would rather Airtran's be the benchmark, but that isn't what they will use. Also, does the 717 have 100 seats? If it had more, then I bet everyone would use something else, and I think we are looking at E190s, which are 100 seaters as advertised. If we were going to buy new 717s, then we would use the closest 717 rate. But, anything smaller or equal to a 100 seater will now be compared to the JB E190.

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[800Dog]

I would rather Airtran's be the benchmark, but that isn't what they will use. Also, does the 717 have 100 seats? If it had more, then I bet everyone would use something else, and I think we are looking at E190s, which are 100 seaters as advertised. If we were going to buy new 717s, then we would use the closest 717 rate. But, anything smaller or equal to a 100 seater will now be compared to the JB E190.

Bye Bye--General Lee

What "they" will use? What about what the Delta MEC will use? I believe the 717 is a 100 seater. May be someone who knows for sure can chime in. The 737-200 has 100 seats. Why is that not used for the new 100 seater pay rate? $98 for a 100 seater is pathetic.

 

[General Lee]

What "they" will use? What about what the Delta MEC will use? I believe the 717 is a 100 seater. May be someone who knows for sure can chime in. The 737-200 has 100 seats. Why is that not used for the new 100 seater pay rate? $98 for a 100 seater is pathetic.

You're right, it is, but so is a DL 767 Captain getting what he does now. IT SUKS. When bargaining for a 100 seater that will likely be the same plane as your chief competitor in the NE, it is probably a good bet they will start at the JB E190 rate. Maybe $98 an hour is higher than JB's. We can try our best to get the highest rate, but it won't be close to a 738 rate, or even an MD88 rate. At least our pilots can eventually move up to something larger if they choose. How would you blend the rate if we get smaller E175s too? (Air Canada has both)

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[BenderGonzales]

Management must be overjoyed. They actually have the mainline and contract labor fighting over who can do the work cheaper!

Amazing.

 

[wms]

DC9-10, F-28, F-100, 732, etc. These were all ML planes. When the 50-seaters came along the ml pilot's attitude was that they were "commuter replacements so let the commuters have them." That opend the door for airline mgmts and SJS boys to increase the capacity of the airplanes flown at the regionals where the pay is lower. Now to preserve, or in the case of USAir, regain their own flying of those airplanes the ml guys have had to lower their own rates. They're not taking the flying, they're trying to keep it, and keep it they should.

Mid-size airplanes (E-170 and up) should be on ML. The industry is in a painful period of adjustment and hopefully in the future things will return to some kind of norm.

But who knows when the spiral will stop. I doubt if it will be with DAL. Unfortunately, DALPA has caved on every issue since contract 2000. But I'd like to see new airplanes become entry-level airplanes at the majors rather than a career goal at a commuter.