Delta Pilots about to get Screwed

[whatitdoing?]

Just the start with Anderson at the controls.........have fun with that.

 

[Heavy Set]

Just the start with Anderson at the controls.........have fun with that.

Can you elaborate on that? I think most Delta people are happy with him (look at USAtoday article today), and most Northwest people would love to have him back. If any mergers do occur, they will have to contain no overlap and little heartache to smaller communitities, and a Northwest merger would probably be beneficial to many.

 

[Heavy Set]

General:
Where did you get 30 from?
I only know of the 4 777's, a few 737-700's and the rest of the 757's.

737

What is all this talk of MD90s? People keep bringing up MD90s from China? Does anyone know if that is true or not? The General said 10-15 of them. Anyone else know anything about them? Michael707767?

 

[328dude]

Can someone explain what your 6% was based on? Just curious, and how far short did the company fall short.

 

[SNOWBUM]

You mean those MBAs and JDs hoodwinked the line pilots again? Gee whiz!

Maybe ALPA will one day learn to put professional negotiators up against professional negotiators, not line pilot negotiators who think they know it all. Then all of these loopholes will be closed.

Let's get one thing straight here : Alpa does have and use professional negotiators on every contract negotiation.

The negotiating committees of both the company and Alpa is made up of management , Pilots and lawyers .

On alpa's side you have pilots, who are just there to witness the negotiation and offer input to the alpa lawyers, and the alpa lawyer, who is ( are ) the one(s) doing the negotiations.

on the company's side you have the VP of Labor relation or some other goon , and some very expensive outside counsel who actually does the negotiation for the company.

The reason Alpa is not as efficient as the companies is because Alpas's lawyer get paid at most 250k a year ( except for Alpa's senior legal counsel who makes 350k ), which less than what a soon-to-be partner makes at the companies hired law firms. therefore , the company's labor law firm has much better talent than alpa can ever hope to have.( most alpa lawyers make 150 k, the 250k is what the senior alpa cousel of each of the legacies make)

why doesn't alpa hire outside counsel then? they do, but the top labor law firms do not represent labor. they don't want to, they want to be seen as representatives of companies only. hence alpa can only hire second tier outside counsel who represents labor ( like Katz) to help out with Alpa's in house second tier inside legal team.

the same goes for the financial analyst alpa has. the company can hire any expensive consulting firms to tweak the numbers on their favor before and after the contract and those firm do not accept labor business. hence we are left with second tier analyst.

Lastly and most important of all, we in the transportation industry are handcuffed by the RLA. And in the current concessionary contracts, alpa was handcuffed by the RLA , Chapter 11 and an anti labor administration.

So alpa does have professionals negotiating on your behalf, they are just and will never be , as good as what the companies can buy.

 

[michael707767]

What is all this talk of MD90s? People keep bringing up MD90s from China? Does anyone know if that is true or not? The General said 10-15 of them. Anyone else know anything about them? Michael707767?

Last I heard is we are still negotiating for 9 MD-90s from China. Evidently the deal was done, but they all need a HMV and they are down to negotiating who will pay for it.

My gut feeling is we will get them, but I have not seen anything final yet.

We are getting 15 757s, 10 737-700s and 8 777s in the next two years. Those are all for sure....firm orders. What I have heard is that the 777 fleet will end up about 20 total, the 737-700 fleet about 20-25 total, a few more 738s coming in, and then the 90s and who knows if or how many.

I can say that in the lounge show the other day (I was there) Steve Dickson said we will hire about 620 pilots in 08.

And by the way to whomever said it, but .03% under would not reduce us from a 6% to a 2%. It's a graduated scale based on pre-tax operating margin. However, Dickson did say based on the projected margins, we are looking at a 2% restoration (I refuse to say raise) in 08 and about 6% of your yearly salary as a profit sharing check.

 

[snow-back]

Can you elaborate on that? I think most Delta people are happy with him

Funny...that's what we thought about Leo Mullin when he came aboard.

 

[On Your Six]

Let's hope that potential bumped pay rates weren't tied to "profit" numbers because we all know "profit" is merely an opinion. You can massage the profit numbers in a number of ways (e.g., accelerate depreciation on fixed assets).

You would think the negotiators would consider this point because anyone who understands Accounting 101 would avoid anything tied to profits... This story still sounds a bit fishy to me - I'll wait to hear more details before I believe it. This would be a MAJOR NEGOTIATING BLUNDER if true but I need more details on what exactly the new pay rates were tied to... Does anyone have the contract details?

 

[michael707767]

You would think the negotiators would consider this point because anyone who understands Accounting 101 would avoid anything tied to profits... This story still sounds a bit fishy to me - I'll wait to hear more details before I believe it. This would be a MAJOR NEGOTIATING BLUNDER if true but I need more details on what exactly the new pay rates were tied to... Does anyone have the contract details?

Here it is, from the contract:

"the composite hourly pay rates determined by increasing the January 1, 2007 composite hourly pay rates by 0.5% for
each 0.25% that operating margin for 2007 exceeds 6.0%.
Note: Increases to composite hourly pay rates will not exceed 6.0%."
​

​

 

[Mookie]

I hope ya'll read that article in the USA today comic book about your CEO. i don't have it in front of me, but the alpa guy from NWA didn't seem like he trusted him too much...

 

[Frank Lorenzo]

If we honestly didn't pass the number, should we be truely upset? I want a raise just like the next guy, but if you don't pass the agreed upon number, then you just might not get it.

I think all of the other Delta pilots should heed the sage wisdom of the General.

This is all about trust, and if you can't trust airline management, who can you trust?

Unfortunately, the hoards of bean counters deep within the bowels of Delta headquarters came up with the final number of .03% short. When I saw that, I said "aww shucks." I was really pulling for you guys.

There is a silver lining in this however. The money that would have gone to the pilots will be used as executive bonuses to retain the top tier talent that makes Delta the well oiled machine that it is. I have seen what happens to airlines that don't retain their talent pool, and it isn't pretty. Unfortunately, their are always headhunters out there gunning for airline executives. It is usually headhunters from industries right up airline executive's alley - used car lots, waste management, bowling alley owners, discount jewelers, dollar stores, or internet spam companies.

Always be vigilant, or you may lose sir Richard as fast as he came. Once again, thanks General for bringing some sensibility to your co-workers. Shame on the rest of you for ever doubting the angelic management of Delta Airlines.

Salt of the Earth I tell you.

 

[GuppyWN]

And, I have a feeling upgrading to bigger equipment or transitioning to the left seat will still increase our pay,
Bye Bye--General Lee

Yeah. Lifestyle and schedule be damned! Just bid up. What about the people that are already there? Or that are single parents and need particular days off? Or? Or? Bidding up isn't everyones solution.

If in fact accounting massaged the numbers to not give you the raise you deserved it might very well cost them more than 4%. Screw me once, shame on you. Screw me twice, shame on me.

Gup

 

[9rj9]

so funny

Those havard grads in the crysyal palace have done it again. Make millions of dollars and you get 2% restitution, that doesn't even keep up with inflation. Hell most grandmas got a better raise from social Security. You guys continued to get suckered, but hey you could just work harder like the American guys for an extra buck.
So how great was selling out your retirement and pay now. clowns

 

[737 Pylt]

Those havard grads in the crysyal palace have done it again. Make millions of dollars and you get 2% restitution, that doesn't even keep up with inflation. Hell most grandmas got a better raise from social Security. You guys continued to get suckered, but hey you could just work harder like the American guys for an extra buck.
So how great was selling out your retirement and pay now. clowns

I'm sorry, you're at the wrong forum.
The lav drivers/cleaners forum is on another web page. Besides isnt this the time you're usually trolling the young men's undewear page at walmart?
Please do the world a favor and drive your tricycle into heavy traffic!
Good night d1ckhead!

737

 

[jke406]

I second that.