Delta pay cuts not enough ?

[~~~^~~~]

Re: Re: Re: What should Delta pilots get in return?

Say it loud now, so we all can understand. Hasn't that been the objective all along? Even as you and the "rest" repeatedly denied it? Say it again, then. How about just GIVE ME!!

Yes, when your airline is aquired by another airline, it is the best outcome for all involved.

Now that there are cuts to be made, you want us to take one for the team. So are we on the team, or not? If I'm on the team I need a number and a jersey.

 

[General Lee]

Fins,

Many corporations own several units--like Disney. If Disney (the Corporation) was doing bad, then I bet all of the units would take cuts. Your unit is profitable right now, but that doesn't mean the "corporation" isn't out of the woods. You should know better.
Now I hope everything improves, and I think it will, but lack of wanting to help does show that infact you are not a team player.
You want to be on the team, but not when times require alittle give back. So, I guess you only want a piece when times are good? Whatever.

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[bladeusa]

All I have heard for the last two years from Delta folks is that we are seperate companies, we are separate companies, we are separtate companies!! You are Comair. You Are ASA. We are Delta. If you want to be one of us, turn in an application and a resume.
But now we are suddenly a part of the Delta family, fellow employees, and should share part of the burden.
I feel deeply for what is happening at Delta mainline. I am against concessions for anyone especially when management is lining their pockets.
However...like you have said in the past, my paycheck does not say Delta Airlines and until it does, I will not "share" any burden.
I am open to working together with mainline and doing what I/we can to help pilots, but don't piss down my back and tell me it's raining.

exactly correct... couldnt have been said any better....

 

[Heavy Set]

ASA/Comair should reduce to Mesa level

Jeckel,

Your argument is misguided. If the United States were attacked by Mexico, would you claim that you don't have to defend it because you live in Georgia? Do you see the logic in that statement? In this case, the US represents mother Delta.

ASA and Comair are wholly-owned divisions of Delta. Both contribute revenues and costs to the total equation. It is unfair to target Delta mainline pilots as the ONLY SOURCE of employee wage cuts. The ONLY SOURCE? That is not teamwork and that does not hold the other employee groups accountable for their cost-control.

So, if Delta pilots have to reduce their wages to "peer" level (i.e., UAL and AMR) to be compeititve, I suggest that Comair and ASA pilots should ALSO REDUCE THEIR WAGES TO PEER LEVEL. Mesa and Chataqua have low RJ rates - let's suggest that ASA and Comair reduce their wage levels commensurate with the mainline reduction to finally come in line with "competitive rates." That would go a LONG WAY to improve the cost-position of the mother company. It would be the only FAIR thing to do if wage concessions are absolutely necessary - right?

 

[Freight Dog]

Not part of the Delta family, but here at Aloha, everyone from pilots to rampers took 10% paycuts across the board in order to get the ATSB loan. Management also took 10% pay cut. Island Air management (Aloha's wholly-owned regional subsidiary) took 10% cut. They did not ask employee groups at Island Air for pay cuts, but then again, Island Air pay rates are quite a bit lower than say those at ASA/CMR. New-hire rampers and CSA's at Island Air make minimum wage, so it'd be illegal for them to take a pay cut...

ASA and CMR may be profitable, but if Delta declared Chapter 11, wouldn't your contracts be also on the chopping block in front of the judge?

Just an observation from an outsider..

 

[sleepy]

This is pointless. DAL can't ask ASA and Comair for concessions. Only ASA and Comair management can ask for concessions. Both of us are very profitable right now (always have been), so management can't even think about doing so. The DAL management and pilots both have a vested interest in making sure that our three companies stay seperate, so DAL and Delts's ALPA MEC will never insist that we accept the same concessions that mainline employees accept. That would pull their whole (separate company) house of cards down.

DAL pilots will accept concessions. ASA will get a small pay raise in our next contract (Comair + 1% or something like that). DAL pilots will get some RJ's on the mainline for their furloughed pilots who can't find a job to fling elsewhere. The DCI whipsaw will continue to spin. We will still be debating this crap 10 years from now.

 

[P38JLightning]

peace treaty from general?

General, you said: "We understand your pain, but a 22% paycut for us would hurt a lot more than a 5% paycut for you. You guys can't give anything, even a small gesture?"


I think most Comair/ASA pilots would be more than willing to help the team, if there was any reason to believe we were part of a team in the first place.

Perhaps dropping the blackball against your union brothers at Comair (many of whom do not support the MEC's stance regarding hiring furloughs without resigning their number) would be a good start. Pref hiring with real numbers or percentages for Comair/ASA pilots would be another team building stepping stone. Besides it would flame the Comair MEC big time. Remember, having pilots junior to them and their RJDC brothers eventualy go to Delta "ahead of" them was probably the main reason they nixed the furlough for pref hiring deal in the first place. Your blackball is exactly what they've wanted for a long time.

We could put some of this crap behind us and all pull together for the same team for once. What do you think?

 

[Heavy Set]

P38,

I like your thinking - you are looking at the situation as a "whole" vs. separate pieces. Although I am not a Delta pilot, I know a lot of Delta pilots who were former ASA or Comair pilots. I think they would agree that some form of flow-through might be appropriate - they have it now at AMR (although the Eagle guys will be stuck for awhile due to the new contract) and used to have it at Continental... But, of course, Comair's recent reluctance to help furloughed Delta guys has not helped...

As Sleepy would tell us, we are going around in circles. In any case, restoring Delta to its financial glory will require A LOT more than just reducing mainline pilot wages.... It will require a unified effort and teamwork - and a huge cutback on executive greed....

 

[FLB717]

Heavy I saw that you would love to work on the 717 but let me give you some advice. I was a CMR guy and was treated very poorly by many DALPA pilots because I was CMR. Some were great but they were a minority. I was told "we own you" or we are NOT the same company " but now really junior pilots at DALPA want those commuter scum to give concesions? Sure pay off my 10K debt for walking the picket line and Ill think about it.The attitude of we are not the same replaced by help us out just doesnt fly. After 9/11 our SENIOR pilots pushed for and got a temp paycut so that Junior guys like me would not be cut. Why have the DALPA boys not done the same. Could it be "Well as long as I get mine" Now it seems to be that they want to take what was not rightfuly thiers. As far as some saying we tried to give Comair/ASA a flow through and they turned it down, well no Sh*t. It was based on a percentage if people based on the number of current and furture pilots at Delta. And anyone hired for around 6-8 years would go in the middle of the combined list, yet if cuts were made it would have been and instrant flow down. No I wonder why that was turned down.I hope you were being sarcastic about reducing wages to those of Mesa et al. United rates on the 737-500 are now lower than those for us on the 717. And we are profitable (not much). But we are just a LCC and are bringing down the field, you rally want to be one of us? I for one NEVER want to see ALPA at AAI. We have first rate Union and a great contract all without ALPA. And we support and like and want our brothers from Air Wiskey flying with us. Go figure, I quess I never be a REAL MAINLINE PILOT.

 

[NYRANGERS]

Heavy I saw that you would love to work on the 717 but let me give you some advice. I was a CMR guy and was treated very poorly by many DALPA pilots because I was CMR. Some were great but they were a minority. I was told "we own you" or we are NOT the same company " but now really junior pilots at DALPA want those commuter scum to give concesions? Sure pay off my 10K debt for walking the picket line and Ill think about it.The attitude of we are not the same replaced by help us out just doesnt fly. After 9/11 our SENIOR pilots pushed for and got a temp paycut so that Junior guys like me would not be cut. Why have the DALPA boys not done the same. Could it be "Well as long as I get mine" Now it seems to be that they want to take what was not rightfuly thiers. As far as some saying we tried to give Comair/ASA a flow through and they turned it down, well no Sh*t. It was based on a percentage if people based on the number of current and furture pilots at Delta. And anyone hired for around 6-8 years would go in the middle of the combined list, yet if cuts were made it would have been and instrant flow down. No I wonder why that was turned down.I hope you were being sarcastic about reducing wages to those of Mesa et al. United rates on the 737-500 are now lower than those for us on the 717. And we are profitable (not much). But we are just a LCC and are bringing down the field, you rally want to be one of us? I for one NEVER want to see ALPA at AAI. We have first rate Union and a great contract all without ALPA. And we support and like and want our brothers from Air Wiskey flying with us. Go figure, I quess I never be a REAL MAINLINE PILOT.

Dude, are you drunk or do you always write like that?

Sorry just busting your stones.

I rally wish you luck I quess.

 

[WhiteCloud]

Re: What should Delta pilots get in return?

I don't buy the argument that just because you don't make much money you should be exempt from contributing to the betterment of your company. Where is the teamwork?

Sure, everyone should do their job to the best of their ability. As for paycuts, shouldn't there be some kind of minimum pay that an employee would not have to drop below?

 

[100LL... Again!]

Posted by the General:
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We understand your pain, but a 22% paycut for us would hurt a lot more than a 5% paycut for you.
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Can you explain what you meant by this?

 

[General Lee]

100LL...again,

Almost everyone has been affected by 9-11 and the associated aftermath, you included. We all are taking a hit, some worse than others. My point was that even a small percentage could help. We are probably going to take a big hit, which is wrong if NOBODY ELSE takes a hit at this company.

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[Freight Dog]

Isn't it funny how we are all pitted against each other when management asks for paycuts and then line themselves up for bonuses that they pay themselves out of cash saved by furloughs and paycuts?

This whole thread is ridiculous

 

[Heavy Set]

It's ironic...

Isn't it ironic that Sleepy, 100LL and other Comair & ASA guys express their interest in joining Delta via flow-through, etc. when times are good (in essence unify the entire operation) and THEN claim that they should not be held to wage cuts (to the benefit of the overall company) when the going gets bad? It's selective association... It is completely obvious.

Flip Flop. Flip Flop. Flip Flop............ I am not a Delta pilot - but I think this issue demonstrates a complete lack of teamwork or accountability. Freight Dog is right - management would rather have all groups pitted against each other - distract everyone from their own misdeeds... That is why the Delta pilot union is the ONLY LABOR GROUP TARGETED FOR PAY CUTS - to dissuade the other groups from unionizing. It is not fair and the DALPA people will fight it.