Delta/NWA Seniority List Negotiation Tidbits

[General Lee]

I'd much rather live in MSP than ATL, and I don't work for NWA.

You must be CLE based.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[JAM-BRO]

GL

You are so full of crap. You talk about warm WX bases. Which ones? ATL, ATL and DFW. Oops, sorry, you ran out of DAL with your tail between your legs. Where did you learn that, from your newfound french buddies at Air France. SLC ain't no warm wx base. Here's the latest wx : SLC 0153 32009KT 10SM FEW050 SCT080 01/M07 A3004 RMK AO2 SLP184 T00061067. 34F!!! That's really tropical and warm. DTW has 16 744s and the majority of 330 flying. You keep bringing up the 777s, but you only got 8 with some deliveries coming. Commuters will do whatever they need to do. I took one of your guys to LGA the other day. I mentioned that it would be nice to fly out of home soon. His eyes opened up wide and said "HELL YES!!!!" It goes both ways. DAL commuters will go north if it works for them and NWA guys will go south. BIG DEAL.......

As per our merger options, at least we have some. You "ain't got none". Inside that narrow little head of yours, you know it and it bugs the hell out of you. We are "it" for you guys. We have that Golden Share, which gives us options. If it don't happen with you guys, well so be it. We can dance with CAL. You can't. You will have the same problems with your "super seniority". You call our group unreasonable and imprerialistic, but we are not for sale. CAL and NWA have not had a major exodus of the top 2000 pilots. DOH will work just fine. In the end, it seems that the one going to the dance without a partner is gonna be you... Good luck.

How many pilots do you have commuting? That is the key here, not how many high paying positions you have in DTW. There are plenty of commuters in FLA or AZ for you guys, and with your DOH scheme that is in fact ridiculous, you guys would "clean up." Not gonna happen. A mass exodus would happen regardless of what you are spouting, and we all know it. ATL is closer than DTW or MSP for the FLA commuters, and new 777s would be suit your guys just fine I am sure...

If we don't merge with you guys, fine with ME!

Here is your problem, though. Steenland says consolidation is inevitable. If not with DAL (which has financial backing from Air France--which is better than a hedge fund with no real real want in owning an airline for an airline's sake), then who? CAL? CAL pilots would object to your Imperialist views too. AMR? ORD is between MSP and DTW---not gonna happen. What next? Steenland wants to retire on Lake Minnetonka.

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[Fly4hire]

Thanks for the info. Our MD88s carry 146 I believe, and the MD90s are close.
Bye Bye--General Lee

DC9-88's, DC9-90's

 

[JAM-BRO]

Do we need your stronghold in the Pacific? Not really. Our 777s overfly NRT now, and we are getting more. It would be nice to have a connection hub there I guess, but not necessary for survival.

Bye Bye--General Lee

No you don't, but if you want something similar to our presence there, it will take a long, long time. Put it this way, every destination takes up 3 planes. With the 777s you got coming(8), you can maybe do 3(half-assedly). We have multiple destinations out of NRT. With 787s coming, we will add more flights to we don't fly to yet.

 

[123]

How many pilots do you have commuting? That is the key here, not how many high paying positions you have in DTW. There are plenty of commuters in FLA or AZ for you guys, and with your DOH scheme that is in fact ridiculous, you guys would "clean up." Not gonna happen. A mass exodus would happen regardless of what you are spouting, and we all know it. ATL is closer than DTW or MSP for the FLA commuters, and new 777s would be suit your guys just fine I am sure...

Bye Bye--General Lee

General,

What are you going to do when they switch the equiopment around in order to align operational efficiencies (i.e. large DC 9 base in ATL). Are bidding equipment or bases?
I am also guessing that the new 787's (what 68 of them) would suit your guys just fine also uke:

 

[DTW320]

Originally Posted by NuGuy
Heyas F4H,

Absolutely accurate.

ABSOLUTELY.....NOT.

What the "general" convienently forgets is that the one thing that NWA hubs DO lack lack is worthwhile LCC competition. DTW has a VERY small splash of SWA and Tranny with Spirit in full speed rewind.

That's great, and it really is your only good thing about your cool hubs and old domestic planes. You do hold fortress hubs, which is good. Your old planes, though, need work. Anderson may have loved them when Oil was cheaper, but not now. And you are starting to park the DC9s (30 -30s this year, right?). It won't get any better with high oil.

Anderson STILL loves 'em. One of your DALPA brothers posted on another thread that your management was more likely to keep more DC9's than ours.

MSP? A touch of Sun Country and Tranny. No SWA in sight. Do we have SWA at any of our hubs? A little in SLC, and a bit in LAX, but that is it too. Airtran is our competitior in ATL, and is trying to be yours in MSP. The thing is that Airtran can't get any more gates in ATL or MSP currently.

OK, got it. Airtran is coming to hub and spoke out of MSP just like they have poached your ATL domestic. Is that the theory you want to hang your "must wear" hat on?

MEM? Some Tranny flights, and that's about it.

IND? Hardly a "hub", but both ATA and Tranny couldn't leave fast enough. Your IND is an RJ hub mainly. How many mainline flights do you have out of there a day anyway?

Mainline flights to LAX,TPA,MCO,CUN,FLL,LAS,LGA

DAL? Ooooh, hmmm, lots of yield busting Tranny in their own house there, as well as JB in JFK and SWA at SLC.

Airtran does not compete with any of our INTL flights, and a lot of our domestic pax are connecting onto our numerous INTL flights. We have more INTL flights from ATL than you do in all of the United States. (any of your hubs, combined) We control 70% of the traffic at the busiest airport in the world. And yet you only derive 55% of your revenue from ATL vs 63% of NWA's from MSP. You control Detroit and MSP, places nobody wants to visit for fun. Wow. Southwest does compete with us at SLC, but often on one flight a day to certain cities. There are no extra gates in SLC for them to use either. Controlled growth.

DAL couldn't give their 100 seat flying away fast enough. On top of that, they just about GAVE those very airplanes away to a competitor that promptly used them to destroy DAL yields in their own "fortress hub". Nothing like handing a burglar the gun with which he shoots you.

We have 76 seaters doing 100 seat markets right now, filling the planes. You have old DC9s that are being parked this year (30 of them).Leaving 68 remaining. Sounds like your 100 seat market is going away too. How many people does a DC9-40 or -50 hold?110 and 125. We have 737-700s coming this year, which will regain some of that market, along with a new carpet smell. A BIG selling point on Pricline.com. Funny how those "old" a/c at NWA produced such a radically higher profit margin than DAL. How do those DC9s smell?So aircraft smell is now a customer factor? Gee, and I thought it was things like dispatch reliability and the fact that the DC9 overheads are FAR larger than DL DC9-88's. Yeah, passengers hate that. Like the 1960s? Who did we give our airplanes to?VALUEJET, you moron. I don't know what you mean?Yeah, no kidding Einstein. Again, we own 70% of the largest airport in the world. Again, you're an idiot. Ranked by revenue, ATL is #4 behind LAX,LAS,and ORD. But hey, I'm really not interested in how you define "largest". ATL makes MSP and DTW look like St Cloud. By what measure? Profitability of the dominate airline based there? Hmmmmm?

It makes the guy who made the call to re-manufacture the -9s at NWA for a mere $2 mil a copy versus $18-22 mil per RJ or 717 look pretty smart. Had DAL done the same thing, think about how many MORE DAL pilots there would be. In the end analysis, it's all about the guys ON YOUR PROPERTY. One more airplane, even the small ones, means 10-16 more guys, and 5-8 more upgrades, and one less airplane flown by people trying to drag your wages down.

We are looking at getting fairly new (anything is fairly new compared to your old DC9s) MD90s that are now readily available. 100 are out there (Saudia just put 28 up for sale)How do you think THEY smell?, and they are newer and can carry more people, farther, than your old embarrassing planes. The only thing embarrassing is DAL's operating margin and cash on hand as a % of expenses.Really, people who say it is "a real pilot's plane" are confused. And guess what? We are getting NEW planes. We are hiring 100 this month alone. We are doing this while you are ditching planes, and hiring a bit for attrition. You have old planes (DC9s and 742s) and they will be gone soon. You know better, yet you spew the same drivel over and over despite being educated about the superior NWA scope clause that prevents them from "going away".We are getting 3 777LRs this year, and 6 in the first three months of next year. Do you know how many pilots that will take? They are LRs, meaning LONG RANGE. That means 2 Captains and 2 FOs per flight.You mean like NWA has done for 50+ years? Australia just opened up open skies, and we have the rights to go to Singapore, New Zealand, and Samoa. Where is the 787 in the flight test process? It hasn't started yet? Bummer. Where is your position in the delivery line? Bummer.

As far as the cold North places, like OMA, FSD, FAR (which NWA has been serving since 1928) and the like, the DAL boyos' new hero, RA, said it best himself "they may be cold and dark, but they're all OURS". It isn't about the size of your airplane, but the size of the yield. MOT might be cold, and the walkarounds might suck, but the full flights of full fare paying passengers makes for a healthy bottom line, as do the FULL flights from NRT to other Asia cities, filled with Japanese passengers.

The great thing is that all of the LCCs out there KNOW where the highest fares are, and as they expand and have to put planes somewhere, they will. They may enter OMA (like SWA has) and take your connecting passengers away, so they don't go through MSP and go through MDW instead. They will look for opportunities, and you will be faced with the same thing the rest of us are. The LCCs have to put their new planes somewhere. And I think it is great that you are Tokyo's favorite airline.....riiight. Somehow I think JAL and ANA think otherwise. They do have a heck of a lot more flights to those same cities you go to from NRT, while you throw on one A330, etc. Don't lie to yourself, and the rest of us.Yeah, you're right. Yet YOUR management wants to merge with us DESPITE our lousy Asia operation

Dumber than a box of rocks. Hilarious

 

[Diesel-9]

Please keep the facts off of here. Destroys 99% of the arguments. Isn't it sad to go thru ATL. Many retired guys with a couple million in the bank to show for it. When was DAL's last strike?

 

[123]

Dumber than a box of rocks. Hilarious

Don't let it get you down, some of these yahoos a mullish determination to have their own way, and there is no amount of factual information that can change their mindset.

 

[Redmeat]

Dumber than a box of rocks. Hilarious

What I don't understand is why a redneck would like a double breasted coat. Is it a confederate thang?

 

[Superpilot92]

Its been awfully quite lately maybe it is the calm before the storm?