Delta needs some damage control

[JungleJetFO]

You guys are missing the point.

Rather than explain anything -- you have to board within 15 minutes of flight time or you risk surrendering your seat -- his co-agent commenced putting us on the next flight.

You guys are missing the point here. Peter King understood he blew it by showing up late but he didn't like the way he was treated after the fact. He was Comair's customer and instead of showing a little compassion, they mocked him. All they had to do was say a few words to show they were going to do what they could, instead he came out of it feeling that they were glad he missed the flight. It's all about perception.

 

[TonyC]

Apologies are free

Let me get this straight, some clown who happens to write a column for CNN is angry that a DCI flght wasn't held while his little princess went to stuff her face with snacks?

No, you did NOT get it straight. Mr. King realizes that 15 minutes is 15 minutes, and he never suggests that the problem was closing the doors on time. His complaint is the treatment. Allow me to refresh your memory with excerpts from his article.

"Flight's closed," the gate agent announced. Rather than explain anything -- you have to board within 15 minutes of flight time or you risk surrendering your seat -- his co-agent commenced putting us on the next flight.

Mary Beth begged for them to open the door. The two guys said nothing. Stone cold. The second agent just continued typing furiously. I saw how unresponsive they were and knew we were cooked. I knew the flight was full, and there were two standbys, or more, and figured he'd just given away our seats at 3:45 on the nose, even with me running to get Mary Beth.

Anyway, I finally spoke up and said, basically, that you guys saw me run to get her, and the South Bend airport is no bigger than a postage stamp, and, really, you knew I'd be right back, and you gave away the two seats to standbys anyway? "Sir, if you don't want seats on the next flight, you can take your business elsewhere," Idiot No. 2 said. I simmered. He printed out the tickets for the later flight, handed them to me, and the biggest two aviation numbskills in Indiana history walked outside to close up the commuter flight.

... Idiot number 2 replied: "Would you like us to call security?"

At this point, the two agents walked outside, and then the first guy stood behind the plate-glass door and made faces at us -- raised eyebrows and phony smiles, head moving smugly from side to side -- and announced loudly and mockingly, in a sing-song way: "Good-bye! Good-bye! Enjoy your flights!''

Was Mr. King upset that he missed the flight? I'm certain that he was. Had things been handled correctly, he would have still been upset as he waited for the next flight, and he would have been more vigilant in supervising his daughter's pretzel cravings as the time for that flight drew near, and that would have been the end of it.

But the embiciles at the counter changed that. All one had to say was, "I'm sorry, Mr. King, we had to close the flight. It's the company rule, and I'm not allowed to make any exceptions. I'll be more than happy to schedule you on our next flight. Can I do that for you?"

Mr. King would have walked away from the podium mad at himself, perhaps mad at his daughter, but not mad at Delta. It's all a matter of customer service, which was not provided that day.

Can you even imagine a Customer Service Representative standing behind a glass door and making faces at you? I'd be incensed. Not only did they choose to NOT be polite, they chose to be incredibly rude.

 

[ACE]

Lets remember we are hearing one side of the story here. If everything in that story is true, than I hope the CMR agents are punished. However, people tend to embelish and leave out certain aspects of the truth.

If they really are Comair people, I wonder if they could "transfer" to another section of the DAL corporation without losing their date of hire seniority as gate agents? I bet ASA would allow that--because they are nice people. But they wouldn't be allowed to go to Comair if they were Delta or ASA gate agents, because Comair is full of "special people."

General, are you ever going to get over it and sing a new tune. If you and your Delta compadres have so much control over Comair as all of you seem to claim, then come over and take jobs. STOP WHINING and do something about it, but remember "there will be CRM problems". It works both ways.

 

[FlyComAirJets]

Sometimes the customer aint always right

Hanging around the ticket counter, giving the gate agents a hard time and then villifying working station agents as "idiots" does not strike me as the actions of a reasonable person only seeking an apology.

We all know from personnal experience that when attempting to jumpseat or non rev that the name of game is Kiss the Agent's A$$. It does not matter who is 'right' or 'wrong,' the Gate Agent rules the gate. I could regale you with the stories of being wronged by these individuals including one on my honeymoon, but it does not change the simple fact that when it comes time to pass through the Golden Boarding Gate, they are ones IN COMPLETE CHARGE.

I know, it's not fair, it's just the way it is. Delta used to be famous for holding flights for last minute passengers and promptly got nailed for having a lower on time departure rate that its competitors. So they changed their boarding procedures and this is what you get.

I bet if Mr. King were more reasonable in his hehavior, the agents would have been more inclined to accomodate his royal entourage. Interesting note, he writes a column called "Monday Morning Quarterback." Looks like he is true to his name.

 

[General Lee]

Did he tell them he would be back soon with his daughter, or did he just leave to look for her? I would have tried to be friendly and then stated my intentions. I really hope they didn't make faces behind the window, though. Also, he states he will not fly "Delta" for a year, and the Comair people (who are owned by Delta) are the ones who supposedly did this.......That is too bad, but I am sure there are cranky "Delta" people out there too.

Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[KLJ]

My Boycott

My wife and I had a similar experience with Delta Airlines 15 years ago. At the time, I wrote a letter to the company, and I got a form letter back which basically said, "Too bad, so sad."

As the originator of this thread did, I decided to boycott Delta, except I made it a lifelong boycott. I would estimate over the 15 year boycott of ours, Delta has lost the opportunity to garner around $10,000/year of our travel dollars (we both used to travel quite a bit). It may not be much in the big scheme of things, but once you add in my boycott to others, my little dollars do add up.

Last time I checked, Delta could use the revenue.

For many years, I slugged it out as a business traveler, and you can bet my experiences with the "trained customer service professionals" at Delta, American, United, and USAir (to name a few) were a factor in my future job search.

In fact, the only airline who always treated me right, is the one I now work for!

 

[General Lee]

Thanks KLJ for that great report. I have flown Southwest as a passenger between LAS and LAX and they lost my luggage twice. I swore up and down that I would never pay for another ticket again---and now I just Jumpseat on you for free and don't check luggage. I think that may have cost you over $500 a year--for atleast the last 5 years---wow!!!! In other words dude---crap happens---thanks for you patronage.

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[FurloughedAgain]

Boycot Southwest

I'm with the General on this one. My wife absolutely REFUSES to fly on Southwest. She flies twice a month for business and simply cant stand the constant songs, games, and other distractions. She would rather quietly read a book or magazine or even sleep.

She also finds the high-speed taxiing uncomfortable and a little bit frightening.

And you know how it goes -- if Mama Ain't Happy, Then Nobody Happy.

Therefore, when we buy tickets for our yearly vacation we avoid Southwest. I believe over the course of the last ten years that has cost them our business (between vacation and her business travel) to the tune of around $29,000

 

[canyonblue]

She also finds the high-speed taxiing uncomfortable and a little bit frightening.

If she flew on Delta even a parked aircraft would frighten her. I can never tell if they are taxiing or the earth is just rotating..

 

[General Lee]

Parked Airplanes? Oh yeah--you must be talking about the 11 MD-11's---because all of the other ones are coming out or are out of the desert---dumping more capacity on the market. Sounds like a good plan to me.

Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[TonyC]

Re: Sometimes the customer aint always right

We all know from personnal experience that when attempting to jumpseat or non rev that...

No, no, no. Nice try, Charlie, but it won't wash on a weekday. This individual was not non-revving or jumpseating. He was a PAYING PASSENGER - - the reason a company is in business - - the CUSTOMER. This has nothing at all to do with how we grovel when we're non-revving or jumpseating.

the name of game is Kiss the Agent's A$$. It does not matter who is 'right' or 'wrong,' the Gate Agent rules the gate.

I take it this is the Institutionalized attitude representative of your company? Tell me, is this policy printed on the tickets, or does it appear somewhere on the company website? Is this Delta policy, or just the policy of the feeder?

Does this demand carry over to the cockpit and cabin crews as well? I mean, should the customer bow before the Captain and thank HRH for allowing him to buy a ticket on his airplane?

I bet if Mr. King were more reasonable in his hehavior, the agents would have been more inclined to accomodate his royal entourage.

What, exactly, did Mr. King do that was unreasonable? Be careful as you re-read the article. Be very careful to not confuse what Mr. King was thinking with what he actually said or did. If you don't read much, you might not have developed an appreciation of the value of this avenue of communication. (For example, you won't know while you're watching your Saturday morning cartoons what the characters are thinking unless they put those ballons over there heads, and you might have to read that stuff real fast.) And don't confuse what the gentleman in the boarding area said or did with what Mr. King said or did. (You might consider getting more practice reading - - it's a tremendous tool for communicating.)

 

[General Lee]

Tony C.,

It has been my experience that it is best to talk to the gate agents before leaving the gate area if the flight is closing soon. Also, he could have maybe paged his daughter, or had the gate people do it when they weren't busy. Never leave the gate area without informing people. I don't remember him stating that, and I DID read the article.

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[TonyC]

It has been my experience that it is best to talk to the gate agents before leaving the gate area if the flight is closing soon. Also, he could have maybe paged his daughter, or had the gate people do it when they weren't busy. Never leave the gate area without informing people. I don't remember him stating that, and I DID read the article.

Bye Bye--General Lee

Originally posted by 250scp (quoting Peter King on CNNsi)
Well, she tarried, and finally, at 3:40, I told the agent to page her, which he did, and then told the guy I was running to find her.

I'll admit - - he should have ASKED the agent to page her, not TELL him. I don't see that as a reason to flame on the guy, though.

 

[General Lee]

Tony C.,

We are all trying to be more passenger friendly these days, and somethimes it doesn't happen. These gate agents seem like they were jerks, but ASKING to page his daughter while he stayed at the gate would have been the smart thing to do, and he is supposedly a SMART guy, right? If the gate agents made stupid faces through the window---then they should be fired, but when you have hungry standby's waiting to get on the plane and the other passengers aren't there----what should you do? Those standbys could have missed the previous flight and need to get somewhere too---who knows? His article may have left out some important details he didn't want to share with the public.....Like his reasons for not asking for a free page. I really can't say much else because I wasn't there.....

Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[TonyC]

These gate agents seem like they were jerks, but ASKING to page his daughter while he stayed at the gate would have been the smart thing to do, and he is supposedly a SMART guy, right?

I agree.

You said he should have had his daughter paged. He did.

You said he should have informed people before he left the gate area. He did.

You said you didn't remember him stating those things, and you HAD read the article.

To refresh your memory, I was simply posting the portion of his article where he DID have his daughter paged, and he DID tell the gate agent he was running to find her.

Again, the only crime I see that he comitted was telling the gate agent to page his daughter instead of asking the gate agent.

 

[General Lee]

Tony C,

I don't know if you non-rev much, but when I do---i just hate it when somebody waits until the last minute to show up, instead of being there on time. Yes, he paid for their tickets---but he should have said something more to his daughter---she was doing what again? Getting yogurt pretzels? Does she go to Notre Dame? It took her how long again in the South Bend airport? She was probably trolling for dudes.....I think her dad needs to keep better tabs on her, especially when they have to catch a flight.....Is a "yogurt pretzel" a new code name for trolling for sex or dudes? Do girls today need "yogurt pretzels" to feel older? I feel old now myself....(Dam.n that Britney Spears and her influence on the young girls of America!!!)

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[FlyComAirJets]

Hey TonyC,
It is really interesting to see the varying opinions over one person's rant. We try to dispute one another's opinion by accusing each other of not reading it thoroughly enough. I think we all see different angles here by reading between the lines.

Apparently the subtlety of my point sailed completely over your purple and orange head so I will try it again a little more slowly. I understand that these were revenue passengers, our primary reason for being in business. As an observer who has had to travel many times primarily as a non rev and has dealt with gate agents who have absolutely no incentive to accomodate me, I have found that being patient, kind, and respectful goes a long way in securing passage. As the old saying goes, you get more bees with honey... But what I read between the lines here was something quite a bit more confrontational.

It's just classic passive aggressive behavior which is why these gate agents locked up on this guy, IMHO. How else would you explain not one but two people closing out the flight on him just one minute late? I certainly don't support that, heck, I have taxied back to the gate to get late passengers on many occasions. But buying a ticket does not entail someone the right to berate a service employee. He does not say that he called them names out lound but then, no one EVER admits that. There are two sides, at least, to every story. I wonder if the gate agents get to post a critique of Mr. King's behavior on the web. Is that the behavior of a reasonable person?

But, thanks for the advice to "get more practice reading," perhaps you might even want to consider getting more practice writing, then you might (just might) be capable of expressing a coherent thought yourself. Cheers!

 

[TonyC]

Tony C,

I don't know if you non-rev much, but when I do---i just hate it when somebody waits until the last minute to show up, instead of being there on time. Yes, he paid for their tickets---but he should have said something more to his daughter---she was doing what again? Getting yogurt pretzels? Does she go to Notre Dame? It took her how long again in the South Bend airport? She was probably trolling for dudes.....I think her dad needs to keep better tabs on her, especially when they have to catch a flight.....Is a "yogurt pretzel" a new code name for trolling for sex or dudes? Do girls today need "yogurt pretzels" to feel older? I feel old now myself....(Dam.n that Britney Spears and her influence on the young girls of America!!!)

Bye Bye--General Lee

OK, you got me. I don't non-rev much. In fact, I don't jumpseat much these days, either - - one of the luxuries of living in domicile. I'm still missing something here, and I don't think my lack of groveling to gate agents in the recent past is blinding me. What would have been the harm in the gate agent saying "I'm sorry, we had to close the flight?"

Sometimes that's all it takes to diffuse a tense situation - - just "I'm sorry." Whether you really are sorry, or not - - isn't that what customer service is about? The customer?

 

[KLJ]

I have flown Southwest as a passenger between LAS and LAX and they lost my luggage twice. I swore up and down that I would never pay for another ticket again---and now I just Jumpseat on you for free and don't check luggage.

Bye Bye--General Lee

General,

Losing your luggage from LAS to LAX would seem to be impossible -- losing it TWICE is amazing! What are the odds? You'd think someone did it to you on purpose! Just kidding -- sorry we lost your luggage, and of course, you're welcome on the jumpseat anytime.

Reminds me of an infamous story at SWA. One of our senior flight attendants was having trouble with an irate businessman who was having to gate-check his bag. He asked her if she was gonna make sure it got downstairs by taking it down herself, and she said, "Yes, I am." She took his bag, turned around and tossed it out the provisioning door! I'd love to do that ... once!

My point was, and is, if you treat someone badly enough, you'll lose more in future dollars than you would in just biting the bullet and making them happy right now. Especially, when people have a choice ...

 

[TonyC]

Apparently the subtlety of my point sailed completely over your purple and orange head so I will try it again a little more slowly.

There was nothing subtle about your accusation that Mr. King acted unreasonably. Again I ask, what, exactly, did Mr. King do that was unreasonable? You can launch a personal attack on me, but that doesn't answer the question. (Although it DOES go to the point I raised about the Institutional attitude that we must kiss the Agent's posterior, and that the Gate Agent rules.)

But what I read between the lines here was something quite a bit more confrontational.

Given the visibility that this man has, I can't imagine his ability to fabricate TOO much without the risk of being called on it. Comair would be all over the place with witnesses that would be called to coroborate the gate agents' account, and he would be sued for libel or defamation. You can read between lines, or you can read the words themselves. He recounted how his daughter begged them to open the door and "the two guys said nothing. Stone cold. The second agent just continued typing furiously. I saw how unresponsive they were and knew we were cooked." Then he says "I finally spoke up..." That means he had been silent to that point. That means he had not been talking. That means he had not been calling anybody names. He finally spoke up and "said, basically, that you guys saw me run to get her, and the South Bend airport is no bigger than a postage stamp, and, really, you knew I'd be right back, and you gave away the two seats to standbys anyway?" Their response?? "Sir, if you don't want seats on the next flight, you can take your business elsewhere," Which lines are you reading between? It sounds to me more like you're making stuff up.

But buying a ticket does not entail someone the right to berate a service employee. He does not say that he called them names out lound but then, no one EVER admits that. There are two sides, at least, to every story. I wonder if the gate agents get to post a critique of Mr. King's behavior on the web. Is that the behavior of a reasonable person?

If he called them names, if he provoked the incident, then the gate agents should receive legal support from their company to sue Mr. King for everything he is worth, and maybe some of what CNN is worth, too. Otherwise, you can keep your accusations to yourself, and Mr. King is owed an apology.

But, thanks for the advice to "get more practice reading," perhaps you might even want to consider getting more practice writing, then you might (just might) be capable of expressing a coherent thought yourself. Cheers!

Somehow I can see you standing behind that glass door making childish faces. I guess it IS part of the corporate culture.