DELTA may recall

[wms]

Hopefully everyone gets their jobs back. Glad we could help with the furloughees and the RPMs.

All the possiblities of what could happen now are mind boggling. Anything from mergers, to DAL getting 70s which would give us a higher bar to shoot for in negotiations, to DAL furloughees being replaced by DCI furloughees. I hope that whatever happens it works out for everyone, including the company, pax and shareholders.

 

[Vortilon]

Ranger,

Aw c'mon get the number right....7666 was the most junior 737 guy on the last AE award.

 

[NYRANGERS]

Ranger,

Aw c'mon get the number right....7666 was the most junior 737 guy on the last AE award.

Yea, I know. I could not -10300-7666-176(over 60 years old pilots still on the seniority list).

 

[MedFlyer]

Delta may need to ease up on their all or nothing concession stance. Negotiate a pay cut (that the union is already willing to give) and secure financing for some 100 seat jets. Delta admitted thier mistake after 9/11, of taking too much capacity out and allowing the LCC's to fill the void. Hitting the pre 9/11 trigger means that pax are comming back (albeit at reduced fares), the trend shows continuous return of the pax and hotels are experiencing an upsurge of business bookings.

Delta needs to make a concessionary deal with us, honor our contract and once we have an agreement, give productivity....and compete with a better product than we had.

NYR

100 seaters won't solve the problem in the short term. As the 100 seaters come on-line, DL will dump the 732's as they are brutally expensive to operate.

Name me one successful company where the company is forced to keep employees it does not need? If DL wants to compete with the LCC's, they are going to have to get lean and mean. It doesn't matter how good or bad management is....carrying around excess employees is a guaranteed path to destruction. Why would any shareholder invest in a company that has to carry around employees that it does not need???

It's great to bring guys back, but pointless in the bigger picture. If anything, this decision only encourages DL to run the company through CH11 because it would allow DL to eliminate the no furlough clause.

 

[no_land_3]

100 seaters won't solve the problem in the short term. As the 100 seaters come on-line, DL will dump the 732's as they are brutally expensive to operate.

Name me one successful company where the company is forced to keep employees it does not need? If DL wants to compete with the LCC's, they are going to have to get lean and mean. It doesn't matter how good or bad management is....carrying around excess employees is a guaranteed path to destruction. Why would any shareholder invest in a company that has to carry around employees that it does not need???

It's great to bring guys back, but pointless in the bigger picture. If anything, this decision only encourages DL to run the company through CH11 because it would allow DL to eliminate the no furlough clause.

MedFlyer,

With all due respect, DL had 2 1/2 years to plan for this recall properly. Instead, they kept adding to our mountain of debt and outsourcing our jobs.

In regards to being "lean and mean", we are much leaner (#s wise) and to get mean, DL needs to expand mainline flying to compete with the LCCs, not shrink.

As far as the "bigger picture", c'mon man, you're a pilot, you know that we are never privy to the "big picture".


I am amazed at how many people think whether or not DL goes CH11 rests soley on the pilot group. False. Grinstein is doing a great job making folks believe that.


land_on_3

 

[NYRANGERS]

Name me one successful company where the company is forced to keep employees it does not need? If DL wants to compete with the LCC's, they are going to have to get lean and mean. It doesn't matter how good or bad management is....carrying around excess employees is a guaranteed path to destruction. Why would any shareholder invest in a company that has to carry around employees that it does not need???

Maybe so, but which contract has furlough protection? Delta may not need 1060 more pilots, yet. Excess pilots does not have to mean only Delta pilots.

While I don't agree with your premise and I don't think there will be a need to furlough DCI pilots. Delta must honor our contract, the 1060 Delta pilots may not be the excess pilots you speak of. You may find yourself to be an "excess pilot". Lets hope it doesn't come to that. But like you said "carrying around excess employees is a guaranteed path to destruction. Why would any shareholder invest in a company that has to carry around employees that it does not need???" So you would be ok with that?


NYR

 

[ATR-DRIVR]

NYRANGERS,
while we did hire some, including furloughed guys, we have just now started to hire again. We did not hire 3000 pilots. No jab intended.
Hope to see you in the terminal sometime.

 

[~~~^~~~]

The number is much larger than 1,060. There are still the Gulf War II 200 that are being paid twice what I make without flying. In addition, Delta management is looking to increase productivity from around 70 hours a month to 83, or so. My half baked guess is that Delta is still overstaffed by about 1,500 to 1,600 numbers.

The arbitrator's ruling did not consider that many of the RPM's to trigger a recall would be flown by DCI. So the question is - now what do we do?

Here is one idea. I make about $60K. The upgrades for current DCI orders are about 125 pilots. You could replace me with one of the $120,000 a year Delta bench warmers, let me sit at home for a year and collect my $60,000 for doing nothing. Not counting training, Delta saves $60,000 plus bene's!

Its a joke, but the truth is that Delta Management and ALPA are beginning to have a powerful incentive for scope war II. The first scope war was badly lost by all involved. This war will likely just involve the Delta MEC working out deals involving ASA pilots' jobs while the ASA pilots' representatives are locked out of the negotiations.

But if ASA pilots could get furlough protection, I'd be the first one in line to "job share" with my Delta buddy.

 

[NYRANGERS]

The number is much larger than 1,060. There are still the Gulf War II 200 that are being paid twice what I make without flying. In addition, Delta management is looking to increase productivity from around 70 hours a month to 83, or so. My half baked guess is that Delta is still overstaffed by about 1,500 to 1,600 numbers.

The arbitrator's ruling did not consider that many of the RPM's to trigger a recall would be flown by DCI. So the question is - now what do we do?

Here is one idea. I make about $60K. The upgrades for current DCI orders are about 125 pilots. You could replace me with one of the $120,000 a year Delta bench warmers, let me sit at home for a year and collect my $60,000 for doing nothing. Not counting training, Delta saves $60,000 plus bene's!

Its a joke, but the truth is that Delta Management and ALPA are beginning to have a powerful incentive for scope war II. The first scope war was badly lost by all involved. This war will likely just involve the Delta MEC working out deals involving ASA pilots' jobs while the ASA pilots' representatives are locked out of the negotiations.

But if ASA pilots could get furlough protection, I'd be the first one in line to "job share" with my Delta buddy.

I really don't feel like getting too into this argument......but....for arguments sake........

If we negotiate pay rates that average $30,000 more a year than say 1060 DCI pilots, that would equate to $.26 or 26 cents per pax to cover the difference. It could be done.

Something to think about,

NYR (an excess Delta pilot.....with protection)

 

[rjcap]

I believe this forces Grinstein to put up or shut up.

I am sure Delta mgmt will do nothing on this until a judge or arbitrator applies enough legal presure to force mgmt's hand.

Chapter 11 here we come.

 

[Heavy Set]

I heard that a DALPA spokeswoman mentioned 30-50 furloughees recalled per month likely. This hasn't been confirmed but it sounds like a reasonable number. My question - where will they put them given that 30-40 airplanes have been collecting sand in the California desert?

 

[spanky2]

Fins,
Of the 250 pilots from FM II, only 70-75 are currently unassigned.

 

[sidesaddle]

recall delusions

So the trigger was reached...Big deal. The company is in debt to it's eyeballs, they are hemoraging millions every quarter, and Jet Blue, SWA, and Air Tran are gaining market share at a tremendous rate.

DALPA and Delta are fighting over the crumbs of an increasingly shrinking pie. What matters more than ANYTHING is the company returning to profitabilty and gaining customers. Then there will be money for recall, to expand and compete with, and for everyone to squabble over. Until then, grievances, rulings, management power struggles, and all the rest of it mean diddly.

I certainly have no illusions about being recalled anytime soon. IMHO the company still is not clear about its strategy or priorities and the union is still griping about Ron Allen. Light at the end of the tunnel? I hope it happens but I don't see it yet.

 

[FlyingSig]

Re: recall delusions

I certainly have no illusions about being recalled anytime soon. IMHO the company still is not clear about its strategy or priorities and the union is still griping about Ron Allen.

I'd say it's still a legit gripe considering Delta is still paying the guy....



.... anyway, mostly I agree with you, I'm not holding my breath that this means anything to me (actually, I'm hoping all the contract crap gets sorted out before I get any phone calls because I have a pretty stable job now finally). I'm a little annoyed that Karen is giving numbers to the media before ALPA even meets with the dark side but considering the "meeting" that was published on the code-a-phone was "cancelled" it wouldn't surprise me if an agreement hasn't aready been reached and she just slipped.



.... to close though, I choose the option that other fellow came up with about picking the thing that annoys Comair pilots the most. I'd do that job for 30% less (relax, it's a joke)

 

[NYRANGERS]

Re: Re: recall delusions

I'd say it's still a legit gripe considering Delta is still paying the guy....



.... anyway, mostly I agree with you, I'm not holding my breath that this means anything to me (actually, I'm hoping all the contract crap gets sorted out before I get any phone calls because I have a pretty stable job now finally). I'm a little annoyed that Karen is giving numbers to the media before ALPA even meets with the dark side but considering the "meeting" that was published on the code-a-phone was "cancelled" it wouldn't surprise me if an agreement hasn't aready been reached and she just slipped.



.... to close though, I choose the option that other fellow came up with about picking the thing that annoys Comair pilots the most. I'd do that job for 30% less (relax, it's a joke)

Karen's office responded to her quote. They said she never gave any numbers, such as 30-50. They also said that that particular reporter has a history of misquotes.

 

[FDJ2]

The arbitrator's ruling did not consider that many of the RPM's to trigger a recall would be flown by DCI. So the question is - now what do we do?

Actually the arbitrator did exactly that.

"we are hereby ordering a procedure designed to require that the recall process commence at the point system-wide ridership, as measured by Revenue Passenger Miles (RPM’s) is equal to that existing prior to September 11, 2001. "

"The term “system-wide” is intended to encompass Delta mainline flying and all Delta Connection carriers."

 

[General Lee]

Fins,

I know what we do---we give any future 70 seaters to our furloughs. Do you have any suggestions of where to put all of these fine pilots? I personally hope we get negotiating, take some sort of a pay cut that would help the company but not "take us for a ride", and order some 100 seaters for the returning pilots. In the mean time, what new aircraft will the "Delta family" be getting? Hmmmmmmm. I also think we should staple you guys to the bottom and have one list.....(with fences for protection of DCI guys)


Bye Bye--General Lee