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Delta long haul...has a lot to learn

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CatYaaak

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 10, 2002
Posts
809
So I rode as a pax on a Delta ATL-CDG 777 the other night, and I was wondering....is there any company-provided instruction to Captains with no common sense regarding protocol for interaction with pax? When not to?

Please disseminate the following points amongst the clueless;

1) After hurry-up boarding for a late departure due to behind-schedule inbound epuipment, accompanied by admonitions to get seated and turn off all electronics, inform the F/As and pax through the same P/A announcing a subsequent mechanical delay that it's OK to use phones while you sit there at the gate for another hour.

You see, not everyone going to Paris (or wherever) is there to gawk at the Eiffel Tower. Believe it or not, a lot of pax are making connections at CDG (or wherever) and a 90-minute to 2 hour delay in ATL means many flights will be missed. Pax would like to be able to inform others at their ultimate destinations of this fact, not 9 hours later when they arrive in Paris when they are allowed to use their phones again.

2) For a long-haul, nightime, overwater flight that arrives at 0800 (scheduled anyway) pax don't need a rambling, 5-minute long PA after being airborn for 90 minutes detailing the flight plan and every point of non-interest they will be passing over or abeam by 500 miles. For one thing, everything outside is shrouded in darkness. For another, in an effort to arrive on the right side of the clock most people will be trying to sleep by the time we pass Canada, and lastly, every seat is equipped with an Airshow for the awake and curious for this expressed purpose.

3) And because people ARE trying to sleep, stop flipping the seat belt sign on and off during the wee hours with every ripple or bump along the route if your F/As are going to make announcements every time instead of just walking through the trying-to-sleep cabin to visibly check them. This is why on many airlines for similar flights a request is made early to buckle your belt outside your blanket if you're sleeping...so they can visibly check rather than wake people up. Of course, with a 100 decible PA you mights as well blow an airhorn.

You're awake in the cockpit because you adjusted your schedule to work at night. Many people in the cabin had to work all day long before getting on your plane. They'd prefer not to arrive at their connection city having been awake for 24+ hours.

Worse, please refrain from making "I turned the seat belt sign on" P/As yourself with more lengthy and detailed descriptions of minor turbulence ahead. Pax get it...the seat belt/lawsuit thing. Save P/As from the cockpit for the really bad stuff that could actually hurl them about. They're trying to sleep, remember?

4) When announcing arrival concourses, please don't use the phonetic alphabet. To say "wer're arriving at terminal 2 Charlie" sounds lame and confuses them. Say "2 Cee". P/As are not like transmitting on HF and we can differentiate between "Bee and Dee and Cee". If your P/A is so unreadable, write it up or speak more clearly.

I'd complain about the food, but that's a dead horse.
 
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HAAAAA. Just flew a redeye -- I always make a welcome PA before pushback, one very short PA at alt, then another short one with only weather prior to descent. Nothing in between (only legacies, old captains and dorks give the "and if you look out the right side" PAs). Besides, don't want to interrupt LiveTV. But then I am a Jetbl-uber pilot. I rock. No, I am not swafo.

Sometimes I hug all the sleepy hot chics as they deplane in order to make sure they are awake and let them know how appreciated they are as jb customers. Safety AND customer service!
 
CatYaaak said:
I was wondering....is there any company-provided instruction to Captains with no common sense regarding protocol for interaction with pax? When not to?
Remember, you're not flying on an award-winning airline. If you want discreet and professional service, try a foreign airline.
 
maybe you could become a PA announcement consultant to the airlines, your post is a good start for a training manual

shheeesh
 
I agree. Once you make the PA announcement about the seatbelt usage any subsuquent activation should require only a "Fasten Seatbelts please" PA. No long winded PA in the middle of the night, airshow is there for a route perspective. If you want to give the details of the flight, do it just before pushback...say 10 minutes before push. Those that want to listen will and those that don't will tune you out.

Of course the opposite of all this is the RJ guys that never make a PA or turn the seat belt sign off at all. This is not occuring on Redeyes but on flights at Noon.

In the case of the DL flight you are luck they were talking on the PA and not transmitting on the HF or on guard. The old joke about DL is that if your position becomes doubtful overwater and you spot a DL jet. Turn 90 degrees to his course and you will be back in the right direction. I think they had more NAV bust than any other carrier.

Does anyone have that picture taken from the CAL jet of the DL 1011 that almost hit them over the Atlantic?
 
Hey Yaak and LT,

Ever heard of the FAA and FARs ... and possible company policies?

It is so easy to spot the Delta rejects.

Yawn .. you are boring.
 
CatYaaak said:
Pax get it...the seat belt/lawsuit thing.

CatYaaak said:
4) When announcing arrival concourses, please don't use the phonetic alphabet. To say "wer're arriving at terminal 2 Charlie" sounds lame and confuses them. Say "2 Cee". P/As are not like transmitting on HF and we can differentiate between "Bee and Dee and Cee". If your P/A is so unreadable, write it up or speak more clearly.
As far as the seatbelt sign/lawsuit thing......NO passengers do not get it. That's why people like me have to constantly remind the mindless idiots in the
back about it. YOU get it because you are involved in aviation, the majority of passengers are not.

And yes I say Terminal D as in "David" because I get sick and tired of telling every 4th or 5th passenger off the plane which terminal we're in. News flash for you, most of the mindless idiots in the back "hear" the announcements, but they don't listen to them. You could tell them five times in a row where we are parking and half of them will still ask you when they get off.

Sorry you had a crappy flight across the pond, but what are we supposed to do?
 
Catyaak:

You have a few valid points- I always try to give the pax an updated ETA before the cell phones go off, so they can update the people they are meeting on the other end, and I don't make any unnecessary PA's during night flights . . . . but the seatbelt sign announcement is an FAR, so direct that part of your rant to the appropriate bureaucrats.

Sounds like being in France rubbed off on you, or did a Frenchman do that while exiting the WC? Merdes!
 
spanky2 said:
Hey Yaak and LT,

Ever heard of the FAA and FARs ... and possible company policies?

It is so easy to spot the Delta rejects.

Yawn .. you are boring.

Spanky...I've never had the desire to spend a flying career busing the flip-flop crowd in and out of Orlando/Disneyworld. Please read LT's post regarding satisfying the FAR's. A short "fasten seat belts please" will suffice enroute rather than a long drawn out "ladies and gentlemen this is Captain Irritant Ive just turned on the seatbelt sign due to..blah blah blah". 99% of the people in a seated, sleeping cabin already have them on anyway because you covered that the first time you turned the thing off after reaching cruise.

And if the Delta "possible company policy" you mention refers to irritating and pi$$ing off it's paying customers, then you merely confirm what I've suspected for a long time now.

LT...you should be hired as a P/A ettiquette consultant.

Report...I do fly foreign airlines frequently (perhaps 15-20 commute-crossings as a pax per year over both oceans and numerous airlines to points beyond) and thus have many points of reference, especially when it involves transferring onto the U.S. airline's intn'l code/share counterpart, or vice versa, for an immediate comparison. You know, AA to BA etc. Excluding the Asian long-haul carriers (Cathay, Singapore, etc and not including Quantas) which are markedly better by a degree, usually there is not much of a difference in most U.S./Euro long-hauls given that every airline has it's goofs and glitches from time to time.

But although I'm happily, vehemently anti-French in most things, sadly there is no starker contrast between bad vs. good on long haul in-flight treatement than the Delta-Air France combination. For years over many trips I tried to ignore it, giving Delta the benefit of the doubt, but the disparity is too flagrant and consistent to be even a probability-blowing string of flukes.

The French...got that?...the FRENCH (and believe me it physically pains me to say it) have it all over Delta, and in things that have nothing to do with FARs. Unlike thier country or Delta aircraft, Air France's aircraft are spotless when I board. Their F/As are gracious and attentive. I have never been bored or blugeoned by incessant, never-ending P/As from the cockpit in the middle of the night. Whether that's by design or the pilots are too French-lazy, matters not to me...I like it.

Granted, Delta's sub-par food and seats in every class aren't the fault of the crews, but many things are directly under their control. Air France was smart to use Delta as a code share...it makes them look extremely good.

Bavarian Uber-pilot...sounds like your customer service is top-notch. Yes, I agree it's good to hug the hot chicks awake.
 
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The absolute worst for long, drawn out, irrelevant PA's is a guy from Comair. He's their communication committee chairman and does their hotline announcements. I asked a former Comair pilot once what was the deal with this guy and his unusual voice inflections. He said that this guy was a former radio personality and that he trys to act like he's talking on the air when he makes his PA announcements. He probably even covers his ear with his hand when he talks. I've had that "pleasure" of being pax on two of his flights.
 
MJG said:
As far as the seatbelt sign/lawsuit thing......NO passengers do not get it. That's why people like me have to constantly remind the mindless idiots in the
back about it. YOU get it because you are involved in aviation, the majority of passengers are not.

And yes I say Terminal D as in "David" because I get sick and tired of telling every 4th or 5th passenger off the plane which terminal we're in. News flash for you, most of the mindless idiots in the back "hear" the announcements, but they don't listen to them. You could tell them five times in a row where we are parking and half of them will still ask you when they get off.

Sorry you had a crappy flight across the pond, but what are we supposed to do?

MJG,

It's pretty sad that you can't take the time and tell them with a smile which terminal they're in instead of exuding your patronizing attitude. That must sell so well to those ultimately paying your salary!

And half of those "idiots" in back probably didn't board as such, but deplane acting like them due to fatigue that resulted from your sleep-interrupting P/A dissertations. They are dumber for having been on your aircraft. So you can yak to them over a speaker from inside a cockpit, but you're above exchanging a pleasantry face-to-face as they deplane? Nice

What are you supposed to do? How about using a little less aviationspeak and more common sense.
 
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Bavarian Chef said:
Sometimes I hug all the sleepy hot chics as they deplane in order to make sure they are awake and let them know how appreciated they are as jb customers. Safety AND customer service!


You sound like one creepy dude....
 
I don't do PAs before 0700 or after 2200. I got that idea from my wife traveling with our kids...and an FO furld. from a major. The late night PAs in the middle of the flight or so would startle my youngest minime...crying babies on a plane...bad joojoo. The FO said they had a policy or something to not do PAs late at night. Sooooooo, I'll try to say something at the gate during that time frame.
 
ReportCanoa said:
Remember, you're not flying on an award-winning airline. If you want discreet and professional service, try a foreign airline.

I have rode on a ton of airlines and the best service by far has been on the Asian carriers.
 
Boeing747Driver said:
I have rode on a ton of airlines and the best service by far has been on the Asian carriers.


Slanty eyes....they stay more focused
 
I only make long-winded PA's when I notice a know-it-all or holier-than-thou commuter boarding the flight.

I've had deplaning pax on the same flight both thank and criticize the brevity of my PA's. I've come to the conclusion that the marketplace ("Earth") contains travelers of many varieties. Some are "road warriors" that appreciate quiet...and some are nervous flyers who often appreciate more information or more detailed explanations of routine and non-routine events.
 
Occam's Razor said:
I only make long-winded PA's when I notice a know-it-all or holier-than-thou commuter boarding the flight.

I've had deplaning pax on the same flight both thank and criticize the brevity of my PA's. I've come to the conclusion that the marketplace ("Earth") contains travelers of many varieties. Some are "road warriors" that appreciate quiet...and some are nervous flyers who often appreciate more information or more detailed explanations of routine and non-routine events.

So you'll subject the other 300 pax to the same long-windedness in order to show how much more you know than a single commuter. Thanks.

Travelers come in many varieties, but on a eve-departing-early-morn-arriving 9-hour flight overwater with absolutely nothing to see about 99% of them are of one variety; the Wanting-to-sleep kind.

Surely even you know this is the assumption. They do dim all the cabin lights, after all.

Headfake has it right. May those of you who find this notion of night flight = brevity too difficult to fathom or inconvenient to adapt to find yourselves some night as a pax seated next to the screaming babies who keep getting awakened every hour by some clueless captain up front.
 
OTOH, there are some of us that just don't have a good PA technique.

What do I mean?

If your PA's include any of the following words, you might want to work on your spiel:

"lost"
"scrotum"
"parachute"
"dead"
"food poisoning"
"crash"
"non-surviable"
"hung-over"
 
CatYaaak said:
So you'll subject the other 300 pax to the same long-windedness in order to show how much more you know than a single commuter. Thanks.

Nah, I'm one of the "brevity is better" types...but for your failure to discern my tongue firmly planted in my cheek, I'll make an exception for you.

CatYaaak said:
Travelers come in many varieties, but on a eve-departing-early-morn-arriving 9-hour flight overwater with absolutely nothing to see about 99% of them are of one variety; the Wanting-to-sleep kind.

In that comfortable seat we provide you? Got it!

CatYaaak said:
Surely even you know this is the assumption. They do dim all the cabin lights, after all.

Our pax don't eat in the dark. The meal service flying across salt water is usually right after top-of-climb. The meat packer from Omaha in 14C going to Paris on vacation doesn't mind my PA's if the alternative is listening to you masticate (in public!).

CatYaaak said:
Headfake has it right. May those of you who find this notion of night flight = brevity too difficult to fathom or inconvenient to adapt to find yourselves some night as a pax seated next to the screaming babies who keep getting awakened every hour by some clueless captain up front.

Get rich, and
Buy a Gulfstream.

or,

Enjoy public transportation.
 
Occam's Razor said:
OTOH, there are some of us that just don't have a good PA technique.

What do I mean?

If your PA's include any of the following words, you might want to work on your spiel:

"lost"
"scrotum"
"parachute"
"dead"
"food poisoning"
"crash"
"non-surviable"
"hung-over"

And I'd add "So just sit back, relax, and enjoy the flight". There's hundreds of thousands of words in the English Dictionary....how about inventing a new standard phrase at least once every 2 decades, or at least mixing it up a bit.

When I hear a PA ending in anything else besides the "Sit back.." thing, I'm stunned, then silently congratulate the PAer, and instantly know it's going to be a good flight.
 
I get to try first, Occam!

"Ladies and Gentlemen, welcome Bankrupt Flight 12, service to East Bajesus.

In the back, your purser is Roberto. He's a little hung over, so no loud noises please. Also, you can discreetly notify when his unnaturally large scrotum decends from his tight shorts.

Since I've decided to illegally accept an A route today to save my airline a buck, any ditching will be unsurvivalable. Your seat cushion isn't an option, as after the 40000th fart, it loses all bouyancy.

I'd avoid the fish, as food poisoning has become rampant. However, I have to continually punish my FO with my Atkins breath, so the protein bar will do me.

SOOOO, just crash back in your seats unvip the more uncomfortable zippers on your old parachute pants, and enjoy your flight."
 
Occam's Razor said:
I only make long-winded PA's when I notice a know-it-all or holier-than-thou commuter boarding the flight.

I've had deplaning pax on the same flight both thank and criticize the brevity of my PA's. I've come to the conclusion that the marketplace ("Earth") contains travelers of many varieties. Some are "road warriors" that appreciate quiet...and some are nervous flyers who often appreciate more information or more detailed explanations of routine and non-routine events.

I think that passenger might have actually been me. I meant to criticize you more than thank you though. Instead of making everyone else suffer with your long winded PA's, why dont you just come out and explain the universe to the "holier than thou" commuter who you are trying to impress anyway? Let the rest of us catch some sleep please.
 
Occam's Razor said:
Nah, I'm one of the "brevity is better" types...but for your failure to discern my tongue firmly planted in my cheek, I'll make an exception for you.

In that comfortable seat we provide you? Got it!

Our pax don't eat in the dark. The meal service flying across salt water is usually right after top-of-climb. The meat packer from Omaha in 14C going to Paris on vacation doesn't mind my PA's if the alternative is listening to you masticate (in public!).

Get rich, and
Buy a Gulfstream.

or,

Enjoy public transportation.

I was taught early to chew with my mouth closed, and when I get to work and on one of our Gulfstreams, I practice what I preach.

But if I were rich, I'd build a overwater train to Europe and supply the demand for those of us who'd rather ride for 2 days in peacable clickedy-clack comfort and arrive fresh than spend 9 hours of sleep-time listening to Captain Yappy, because it will take a full extra day to recover from the trip fatigue anyway.
 
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AceCrackshot said:
I get to try first, Occam!

"Ladies and Gentlemen, welcome Bankrupt Flight 12, service to East Bajesus.

In the back, your purser is Roberto. He's a little hung over, so no loud noises please. Also, you can discreetly notify when his unnaturally large scrotum decends from his tight shorts.

Since I've decided to illegally accept an A route today to save my airline a buck, any ditching will be unsurvivalable. Your seat cushion isn't an option, as after the 40000th fart, it loses all bouyancy.

I'd avoid the fish, as food poisoning has become rampant. However, I have to continually punish my FO with my Atkins breath, so the protein bar will do me.

SOOOO, just crash back in your seats unvip the more uncomfortable zippers on your old parachute pants, and enjoy your flight."

B-

You left out "lost" and "dead".

Keep trying!
 
Guitar rocker said:
I think that passenger might have actually been me. I meant to criticize you more than thank you though. Instead of making everyone else suffer with your long winded PA's, why dont you just come out and explain the universe to the "holier than thou" commuter who you are trying to impress anyway? Let the rest of us catch some sleep please.

You are two people at once?

(I'm gonna assume the s/n "Sybil" was taken then...)

Now try reading for comprehension.
 
Occam's Razor said:
You are two people at once?

(I'm gonna assume the s/n "Sybil" was taken then...)

Now try reading for comprehension.

You sure do seem so proud and stuck on yourself if you have to try and impress someone that perhaps may know more than you do. Razor, I am sure that ego of yours is so big that you would love nothing more than to come out of the cockpit with your hat and glasses on and just try and impress everyone.

Keep doing your long winded speeches for the one person you just have to impress and ruin the ride for everyone else. Thanks sport.
 
Occam's Razor said:
You are two people at once?

(I'm gonna assume the s/n "Sybil" was taken then...)

Now try reading for comprehension.

Mmmm, did you not read what I wrote? I thanked you for NOT making it any painfully longer than it was and then snapped at you for keeping me awake. I also asked you to refrain from having to impress just one person that you picked from the crowd.

In all seriousness, why do you have to try so hard to impress someone? What is THAT all about? If it's an ego thing, I guess....but otherwise I just dont get it. That is why some people think pilots are so arrogant and above everyone else. It only takes one such as yourself to create such a false perception.
 
CatYaaak said:
I was taught early to chew with my mouth closed, and when I get to work and on one of our Gulfstreams, I practice what I preach.

But if I were rich, I'd build a overwater train to Europe and supply the demand for those of us who'd rather ride for 2 days in peacable clickedy-clack comfort and arrive fresh than spend 9 hours of sleep-time listening to Captain Yappy, because it will take a full extra day to recover from the trip fatigue anyway.

CatYaak, your absolutely right. Some people and their ego can get in the way of everything else. All in an effort to show who is superior to anyone else in the aircraft.
 

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