Delta and possible BK

[ATR-DRIVR]

You know les, most of the people on these forums put their info about where they work, time etc. I always wondered why you didn't......Not happy where you are? That would be my first guess after watching your name-calling, insulting post.
My first response still stands....you should go check with the doc again....quickly.

 

[General Lee]

AMF,

Ahahahahahahahhahahahah. Enjoy! I thought it was a good comeback. Your comeback was equally great. Have a great day---I will.

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[SMMustang]

I'd much rather be in the bottom 10-20% of seniority at SWA than Delta.

I agree with you, yes, but the forward looking people would rather be in the bottom 10-20% of JBLU rather than SWA...and in 15-20 years they would rather be in the bottom 10-20% of FUTUREBLUEWESTJET THE NEW LOW COST CARRIER. This is what the walmart effect will have.

Two of those four still exist and it will be down to one soon. You can complain all you want about the LCCs being like Walmart. But Walmart took over and put many other stores out of business, good luck fighting them.

Walmart is now having problems with unions and other items of a carrier that is no longer growing at a huge pace. Would you rather work for Walmart and get min wage and 100 shares that grow at 10% a year, or Future mart for min and 50 shares that will grow at 25% a year for the forseeable future.

What was the growth of JBLU v SWA last year?

I fly for a legecy carrier, but own stock in JBLU and it is the only stock I own, so I'm talking out both sides of my mouth here.

What I'm saying, is be careful what you wish for. Nobody...and that is nobody sits on top the airline heap for too long and that includes SWA. For SWA to remain the LCC it NEEDS legacy carriers to undercut. If all the legacy carriers belly up. SWA will thrive, probably for the remainder of our lifetime, but then it will belly up too to other new LCCs.

But if you are in it for yourself and yourself alone, which most of us are if we are honest with ourselves, why not go to a legacy carrier and get paid as much as you can for as little work possible? Granted it is a day late and a $ short for that option. If my dream was to serve others I'd be in the Peace Corps (seriously, I've considered the PC and may do that after retirement) or on AD still.

My carrier is in a mess just like the others, but it is still a better life style than flying for a LCC otherwise I would've jumped. I've done the research, and flying for an airline isn't worth it if it means flying until I'm dead tired, I've done the commuter thing, and I know what it means to fly 80+ hours a month. My other job pays just as well, if not better. But you have to understand, I have 3 kids and got a legecy job to spend time with them, not to see how much flying I can do in a month.

Now, I wouldn't buy my carriers stock, it is too risky and the future isn't guarenteed like you said. As a matter of fact, I wouldn't buy SWA stock, a terrorist attack will crush SWA from the market analysis I've seen. If you are afraid of flying-drive. That is another reason JB is in a nice position, because the legs are too long to drive.

PS, to see true humility and shame us all, read the story on Fern Holland. She's a hero of mine

http://www.newsok.com/?fern_holland_home

 

[FlyBoeingJets]

But if you are in it for yourself and yourself alone, which most of us are if we are honest with ourselves, why not go to a legacy carrier and get paid as much as you can for as little work possible? Granted it is a day late and a $ short for that option. If my dream was to serve others I'd be in the Peace Corps (seriously, I've considered the PC and may do that after retirement) or on AD still.


PS, to see true humility and shame us all, read the story on Fern Holland. She's a hero of mine

http://www.newsok.com/?fern_holland_home

You are right, we need more people like Fern Holland.

 

[350DRIVER]

T45Flyer,

I appreciate the concern but will not be looking for any lor's down the line, nice try at a comeback though.

Give me a break. Delta is a more respected carrier by whom?

I would say by a fair shair of people, pilots, etc. Take a look at the differences in the pax that board your "greyhound in the sky" versus those that pay the extra to go Delta and to be pampered. It was always comical to see the SWA gates at HOU on a busy friday afternoon. Hey though if you enjoy flying for peanuts, doing 5 to 7 legs a day, etc, etc, then enjoy. For as much money as SWA makes and the compensation that the flight attendants, pilots, etc, get? I like the word "class", something that Delta does have..

5. Losers like you. Yes. See all your General azz kissing looking for a LOR someday.

No a$$ kissing at all, just mainly pointing out that DAL is a much better, well rounded, more respected carrier which has quite a bit of "class" something that you folks lack in all aspects. You guys are nothing more than a greyhound in the sky so your pointless arguments have no bearing on anything. If DAL catered to the weak of society and those you couldn't afford anything more than $99.00 each way anywhere that they flew to then they would be in the same boat, fortunately they will never swoop to this level.

SWA makes a lot of money, I never argued that point.. Other than the "money" issue that is all you have on Delta.


3 5 0

 

[jetflyer]

Anyone notice the anger going on in this thread?

I think people are getting scared. FEAR is beginning to set in.

These are some of the questions a lot of people associated with Delta are starting to ask:
Will I lose my job in the next 5 years?? Will I lose my pension? Will I lose my house? Will I lose my boat?

People are getting afraid now that Delta may be the next Pan Am, the next Eastern, or the next Braniff.

I think management is winning their war, slightly, to make the Delta pilots look like the bad guys. I think people all throughout the Delta family people are starting to blame the pilots. I personally don't think it's their faults and think we should all give a little to save our arses!

Let's all just hope the previous questions, can be answered with a big NO, and good luck DELTA!

Jet

 

[Boeingman]

I sure wish we had that DBA "FlyDeltasJets" around to get his high and mighty opinion.

FDJ.....if you're lurking, I guess my predictions are coming home to roost. April 1st is what your 2 year anniversary on the street?

Aside from that blowhard, I wish all of Delta's family the best. This is going to become a fight for their lives with a intransigent CEO who is only focusing on one thing and from one group of employees.

 

[SMMustang]

Boeingman,

and whatever happened to UAL78 and all the UAL posts that used to be on this board. Humility and dignity needs to be practiced at all times because at some point we will all look like a fool for some reason or another. Trust me I know...been making big mistakes and wrong choices in my life for a long time. The answer is to look at 2+years of furlough as the best time in my life to kick the wife out the door and really get to know my kids. It has been a blast and I wouldn't have traded it for the world. How many at SWA or JBLU can take 2-3 years off because I have a newborn and want to stay home? 9/11 gave me that opportunity and I'm embracing it all I can. Because you know once us furloughees go back to work, we most likely will work for the rest of our lives and never have this wonderful opportunity to play with our kids, get a degree, collect unemployment, write a novel, chase whatever dream we had outside of aviation we had.

 

[Boeingman]

Boeingman,

and whatever happened to UAL78 and all the UAL posts that used to be on this board. Humility and dignity needs to be practiced at all times because at some point we will all look like a fool for some reason or another. Trust me I know...been making big mistakes and wrong choices in my life for a long time. The answer is to look at 2+years of furlough as the best time in my life to kick the wife out the door and really get to know my kids. It has been a blast and I wouldn't have traded it for the world. How many at SWA or JBLU can take 2-3 years off because I have a newborn and want to stay home? 9/11 gave me that opportunity and I'm embracing it all I can. Because you know once us furloughees go back to work, we most likely will work for the rest of our lives and never have this wonderful opportunity to play with our kids, get a degree, collect unemployment, write a novel, chase whatever dream we had outside of aviation we had.

Mustang, I am happy for you and I wish a speedy return. I do understand where you're coming from and I agree, but with this particular individual I digress.

His posts were of a constant mocking of my company, our contract, fellow pilots and my personal side business. The arrogance and attiutde were quite irritating to say the least.

I had (correctly) pointed out that DAL is not furlough proof and they would be suffering financially (eventually) like all carriers at some point in time. I also correctly predicted the DAL contract would be under attack by management. The replies were, shall we say interesting but none the less just as arrogant.

Since I can never say I told you so to my wife......I had to vent here! I do however feel that he needed a true reality check and since 4/1 has passed, again, it was worthy of mention.

Take care, good luck.

Just curious though, what is the time limit of recall at DAL?

 

[FlyComAirJets]

A Delta buddy of mine said in addition to the %30 percent wage cuts, DL management wants work rules that account for another %20 percent. %50 percent! Upfront. Who can afford that? Pro athletes in the sunset of their careers usually retire when offered half their previous rate. It just confounds me that DL management takes this provocative all-or-nothing stance.

Being villified by their fellow employees who should not be fooled into thinking their "near industry standard" wages are immune. If DL pilots take significant pay cuts, you can bet your sweet backside that EVERY non-contract employee group will have new scales imposed on them in a New York second. Oh, but that's the Delta pilots' fault because they called for all stakeholders to share the pain. Riiiiiight.

 

[General Lee]

Flycomairjets,

I am glad that you actually see what is going on here. It is ridiculous. Finally some one other than a Delta mainline pilot can see what is going on here. Now, I do believe also that we should give some pay back--probably a good chunk----to help the company get refinancing. But, everyone should participate somehow. I will say it again---the mainline pilots should take the lion's share---but what about management, the stews (more than 3%), mechanics (haven't taken a percentage cut yet I believe), and ground people? I know that everyone likes to say that those groups have given up money with the higher premiums for health care---well we would give that up too I am sure. (then add a % pay cut and other benies) The health premiums thing is a given. They will also say they need productivity gains---well, we have 3000 less pilots than pre-9-11, and we will have a chunk retire when we get the cuts. We have over 500 Capts that have more than 25 years with Delta and probably will bail if the cuts are really high.

I hope they actually sit down eventually and negotiate. I think they will after the "Master Plan" is given in July. That will give Dalpa a better view of what Grinstein wants to do.

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[Boeingman]

General:


Honestly, I don't see why DALALPA just doesn't walk from the negotiations until Gerald decides that everyone should kick in.

If not, you're just subsidizing the concessions from other groups the company doesn't have the balls to confront.

What was it that Mullin said? "A contract is a contract".

 

[General Lee]

Boeingman,

I know---and you can see this crap too---I am glad. But, we are ready to give some back as an investment---in our company. Apparently they won't even negotiate. Isn't that their fiduciary responsibility to the stock holders? We have our annual stock holder meeting later this month in ATL---and it will be interesting.
This management team doesn't want extra unions--and they are targeting the only one on the property. I hope they give in and come to the table......(We are willing to come in early---mid-contract for talks--we didn't even have to. And, our first offer was just that--not a final offer or we would have left the process all together....)

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[Boeingman]

Boeingman,

I know---and you can see this crap too---I am glad.

I can see it very clearly. And honestly, every DAL pilot should be insulted at how your management is only targeting ALPA.

But, we are ready to give some back as an investment---in our company. Apparently they won't even negotiate.

Which in a nutshell says it all. Time to tell them to pound sand. A line needs to be drawn sooner or later. For the pilots to even attempt to continue to negotiate anything after this process and the road management has taken is going to eventually cost you guys more in the long run.

And you're dead to rights it is an investment in your future. They cetainly had no problem investing in those ridiculous mangement retention and retirement programs.

Isn't that their fiduciary responsibility to the stock holders? We have our annual stock holder meeting later this month in ATL---and it will be interesting.

Absolutely their responsibility. They walked away from a willing labor union to give them a check for what 13.5% right off the rip for nothing in return. Incredulous.

You guys should be show up en masse at the board meeting.

This management team doesn't want extra unions--and they are targeting the only one on the property.

And they are making a big mistake in the long run. This if allowed to continue will make the pilots burn with resentment. Management WILL come back for more. A precedent will be set.

I hope they give in and come to the table......(We are willing to come in early---mid-contract for talks--we didn't even have to. And, our first offer was just that--not a final offer or we would have left the process all together....)

Bye Bye--General Lee

Screw them if they don't. It is obvious the position they are taking. Let DAL bleed a litttle more and they will return with more candor and willingness to work with the pilots.

 

[General Lee]

Boeingman,

I think they are doing a good job of scaring some pilots---but not the union pilots with the books. I can see the pay gap between the other majors, and I am willing to negotiate for lower. But, it really isn't right to target one group--when everyone at this airline has a stake in this. I am glad that you see this and it sounds like you have good insight into this process. I don't know if I would tell them to pound sand, but I hope they come around eventually and we can work something out. Take care.

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[Boeingman]

Boeingman,

I think they are doing a good job of scaring some pilots---but not the union pilots with the books. I can see the pay gap between the other majors, and I am willing to negotiate for lower. But, it really isn't right to target one group--when everyone at this airline has a stake in this. I am glad that you see this and it sounds like you have good insight into this process. I don't know if I would tell them to pound sand, but I hope they come around eventually and we can work something out. Take care.

Bye Bye--General Lee

Thanks for your comments.

You're right General they are attempting to split the ranks and cause division amongst the pilots. Typical management tactics.

The only thing I mean about telling them to pound sand is not on a "permanent" basis, but until Gerald gets a bit more reasonable in negotiations and the burden is for all to share. Including management.

Until then, if I was in the MEC, my response would be "A contract is a contract". Besides, I don't see DAL managment ponying up anything.

Another thing, I would tell your MEC that their last best and final offer should have the $15 million Mullin took figured back in. After all, wasn't that a retention for him? OK, I'm dreaming but it sure would be nice.

 

[Maynard]

huh?

You don't get a bunch of posts from SWA pilots because we are busy kicking @ss, and enjoying our time off. Please keep spending all of your time off flaming each other on this INTERVIEW FORUM. This is an interview forum, right? BTW, we are interviewing...and hiring.

 

[General Lee]

Maynard, I paid a donation to this forum, and I can do whatever I want. Take care.

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[XRMEFLYER]

I can do whatever I want.

nana nana booboo! Sounds like the response of a 6 year old.

 

[spanky2]

XRM,
Dude...you really need to get over the rejection from your Delta mainline interview.

Carry on.