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Delta and JAL

Networ-King

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Good to see Delta is doing so well that they're in talks to invest in another airline......

Delta In Talks To Buy Big JAL Stake - Report

September 11, 2009
Delta Air Lines is in talks to invest in struggling Japan Airlines (JAL) and become its biggest shareholder, Japanese media said Friday.
Public broadcaster NHK and Kyodo news said Delta was in talks to invest several tens of billions of yen in JAL, Asia's largest airline by revenue, as part of a business alliance.
"I can't verify what has been reported by NHK and can't comment further at this time," said a JAL spokeswoman.
JAL is headed for its second straight loss this business year and is restructuring under state supervision after receiving a JPY100 billion credit facility backed by the government.
JAL and Delta are also talking about code-sharing on international flights, Kyodo and NHK said.
JAL reported a JPY50.9 billion operating loss for the year to March 2009 and has forecast a JPY59 billion loss for the current year, as it struggles to control costs and suffers along with other airlines due to a slump in global travel.

(Reuters)
 

FBN0223

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Code-sharing? Now Delta just needs Moak to sign a LOA so that JAL could do all the Asia flying. Shouldn't be a problem. When it comes to LOAs, Moak's pen is always at-the-ready.
 

ACL65PILOT

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Code-sharing? Now Delta just needs Moak to sign a LOA so that JAL could do all the Asia flying. Shouldn't be a problem. When it comes to LOAs, Moak's pen is always at-the-ready.


Do not get me started. This has some serious implications. This is not your garden variety Joint Venture. This is a majority stake in a major foreign airline, that is part of another alliance.

The stakes are much bigger for us as a group with this one.


Also remember that JAL has a cargo entity, much like AF. We need to be way ahead of this.
 

Scope out RJ's

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Good to see Delta is doing so well that they're in talks to invest in another airline......

:laugh:
At least it's not ASA!
I wonder if joe merchant and his gang of girls can help the JAL pilots form the JADC:laugh:!
 

johnsonrod

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Perhaps Delta could invest in its own F'ING business and people.... Maybe they'll base the aged DC9s out of Narita.
 

BILL LUMBERG

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This is pi$$-poor garbage......

Spend all the money before 2012 then cry poor.....even with JetA at a 5 year low, they are crying about costs.

Mgmt: "Ya wanna Strike?? Ok, we got all of our codehares in place....Go for it!!!"

They are breaking the bank and making us more and more a virtual airline.....
 

JonnyKnoxville

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Delta management is just positioning Delta to be THE global airline in this quickly changing industry. This has nothing to do with labor, it is all about building an empire.

Dalpa just needs to focus on positioning the Delta Pilots to be the ones in those cockpits and, in my opinion, should start with the companies that Delta already owns (Mesaba, Comair, and Compass).
 

ACL65PILOT

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That they are. What this move is, is exactly like Air France buying KLM. It now provides two dominant carriers for both stake holders in the worlds two largest airlines. Add Virgin Blue if they can change a few things in their agreement with the Aussies and we have a world airline that no one will be able to beat.

The landmines as I see them are: If Japan, US and EU go in to a total open skies, it totally undermines all labor. They will just route passengers a different way, on an existing route, and there is nothing anyone can do about it.

It will provide a great route structure for the corporate entity, but limit opportunities for pilots, unless we take the next step and joint forces as a worldwide pilot group. It will take a lot of humility etc, to get it done, but the profession is in danger if we don't.
 

ACL65PILOT

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Delta management is just positioning Delta to be THE global airline in this quickly changing industry. This has nothing to do with labor, it is all about building an empire.

Dalpa just needs to focus on positioning the Delta Pilots to be the ones in those cockpits and, in my opinion, should start with the companies that Delta already owns (Mesaba, Comair, and Compass).



True to a point. We need to be very careful how the JV's are worded, because if they are poorly worded, it could provide a work around to even the best efforts.

You are correct thinking that this is not about labor. It is a thought but it was not their first one when starting the deal. It is about Nation Building.
 

General Lee

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Read the article, and breathe deeply.....

AP Source: Delta considers ties to Japan Airlines

AP Source: Delta Air Lines weighs making cash infusion, business ties with Japan Airlines
  • On Friday September 11, 2009, 12:46 pm EDT
ATLANTA (AP) -- Delta Air Lines Inc. is considering making a cash infusion of a couple hundred million dollars to aid struggling Japan Airlines Corp., a person briefed on the talks said Friday.
In exchange for the infusion, the person said the world's biggest airline operator could get a stake in Japan Airlines, an expanded presence in Japan and coveted access to the closest airport to the Tokyo business center.




The talks between the two carriers were in their preliminary stage, and it was unclear what form a partnership between Delta and Japan Airlines might take, said the person, who asked not to be identified by name because of the sensitivity of the discussions.
"There's definite interest on both sides," the person said.
Delta subsidiary Northwest Airlines has a history with Japan Airlines, having handled flight operations for the Japanese carrier in the early 1950s, according to JAL's Web site.

A Delta spokesman declined to comment. JAL spokesman Satoru Tanaka said the airline was considering various tie-ups with a wide variety of potential partners but nothing had been decided.

Japan Airlines already has a codeshare agreement with American Airlines as part of its participation in the oneworld alliance. Delta's SkyTeam alliance currently doesn't have a Japanese partner. An American spokesman declined to speculate on how a Delta-Japan Airlines deal might impact American's relationship with Japan Airlines.

"We would not routinely comment on the media rumors and speculation involving one of our oneworld partners," American spokesman Tim Smith said. "We obviously would note that JAL has been a very good partner for both American and oneworld."

Among U.S. carriers, Atlanta-based Delta has a relatively large Japan presence by virtue of its acquisition last year of Northwest, but its market share there is still dwarfed by that of Japanese carriers. In the Tokyo market, Delta operates from Narita Airport, the main international airport.
Delta has not been allowed to serve Haneda Airport, a mostly domestic airport that is much closer to the center of Tokyo. The U.S. and Japanese governments have been in talks about air service between the countries, though it is unclear how those talks will turn out.
A key benefit for Japan Airlines, Asia's biggest airline group, to a deal with Delta would be money.
Hit by plummeting demand in a slumping global economy and swine flu fears, JAL incurred its biggest-ever quarterly net loss of 99 billion yen ($1 billion) in the three months to June.

The airline has forecast a net loss of 63 billion yen for the current fiscal year to March 2010. As part of restructuring, JAL plans to cut the number of flights and slash costs by 53 billion yen during the current fiscal year and another 100 billion yen in the next fiscal year.
Another motivation for Japan Airlines in talking to Delta about a tie-up could be Northwest's long history of airline operations in Japan. That experience could benefit JAL, said aviation consultant Mark Kiefer of CRA International in Boston.

"I think certainly in terms of the position they are in financially, it's in their interest to entertain really any kind of offers that might come their way," Kiefer said of Japan Airlines. "Whether or not they are also in talks with American, I don't know. It wouldn't surprise me to learn that they were."
American's Smith declined to say whether his airline also was talking to Japan Airlines about making a cash infusion in the carrier.

Kiefer said a hookup with Japan Airlines could be good for Delta.
"In general, you would expect these kinds of investments or arrangements to have some potential upside in being able to generate additional traffic and revenue for both airlines, but Delta in particular," Kiefer said.
Delta has cash to invest, though most major U.S. carriers have been trying to preserve their cash because of big revenue declines due to a steep dropoff in demand for air travel amid the global economic downturn.
As of June 30, Delta had $5.4 billion in unrestricted liquidity, including $4.9 billion in cash, cash equivalents and short-term investments and $500 million available under a line of credit. Delta said previously it expects the total figure to fall to $5 billion by the end of the third quarter, which ends Sept. 30.

Delta shares rose 5 cents to $8.15 in afternoon trading Friday.


Lee Moak better watch this one.


Bye Bye--General Lee
 

GogglesPisano

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enough
Has the AF-KLM JV created pilot jobs at DL, or destroyed them?

Would we be operating more flights across the pond without the codeshare, or less?

Would NWA have ever flown PDX-AMS or EWR-AMS or AMS-BOM without their KLM JV?

According to DALPA, the AF-KLM JV is a win-win for DL pilots. Is this the truth? Who knows.

Let's not forget which airline now has the cheapest pilots in the JV. I assume this will not change when JAL enters the picture.
 

General Lee

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Has the AF-KLM JV created pilot jobs at DL, or destroyed them?

Would we be operating more flights across the pond without the codeshare, or less?

Would NWA have ever flown PDX-AMS or EWR-AMS or AMS-BOM without their KLM JV?

According to DALPA, the AF-KLM JV is a win-win for DL pilots. Is this the truth? Who knows.

Let's not forget which airline now has the cheapest pilots in the JV. I assume this will not change when JAL enters the picture.

Well, the JV has helped, and even though people tout our lack of expansion due to it, we have added some routes. We WERE going to expand a lot more this last Summer (PIT, BWI, RDU to CDG) (We did PIT), the economy stopped that. Apparently we may give AF our JFK to Manchester route in January and JFK to CDG is also theirs now, although we have just taken over their PHL to CDG leg starting next month (part of CVG 6 day trip). I think it is about even so far. The managements look at the routes, and they figure out which plane type fits. We are the only ones with the smaller 757s (compared to AF and KLM fleets), so we may get a lot of the thinner routes, like PHL to CDG this Winter.


Bye Bye--General Lee
 
Last edited:

ACL65PILOT

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AP Source: Delta considers ties to Japan Airlines

AP Source: Delta Air Lines weighs making cash infusion, business ties with Japan Airlines
  • On Friday September 11, 2009, 12:46 pm EDT
ATLANTA (AP) -- Delta Air Lines Inc. is considering making a cash infusion of a couple hundred million dollars to aid struggling Japan Airlines Corp., a person briefed on the talks said Friday.
In exchange for the infusion, the person said the world's biggest airline operator could get a stake in Japan Airlines, an expanded presence in Japan and coveted access to the closest airport to the Tokyo business center.




The talks between the two carriers were in their preliminary stage, and it was unclear what form a partnership between Delta and Japan Airlines might take, said the person, who asked not to be identified by name because of the sensitivity of the discussions.
"There's definite interest on both sides," the person said.
Delta subsidiary Northwest Airlines has a history with Japan Airlines, having handled flight operations for the Japanese carrier in the early 1950s, according to JAL's Web site.

A Delta spokesman declined to comment. JAL spokesman Satoru Tanaka said the airline was considering various tie-ups with a wide variety of potential partners but nothing had been decided.

Japan Airlines already has a codeshare agreement with American Airlines as part of its participation in the oneworld alliance. Delta's SkyTeam alliance currently doesn't have a Japanese partner. An American spokesman declined to speculate on how a Delta-Japan Airlines deal might impact American's relationship with Japan Airlines.

"We would not routinely comment on the media rumors and speculation involving one of our oneworld partners," American spokesman Tim Smith said. "We obviously would note that JAL has been a very good partner for both American and oneworld."

Among U.S. carriers, Atlanta-based Delta has a relatively large Japan presence by virtue of its acquisition last year of Northwest, but its market share there is still dwarfed by that of Japanese carriers. In the Tokyo market, Delta operates from Narita Airport, the main international airport.
Delta has not been allowed to serve Haneda Airport, a mostly domestic airport that is much closer to the center of Tokyo. The U.S. and Japanese governments have been in talks about air service between the countries, though it is unclear how those talks will turn out.
A key benefit for Japan Airlines, Asia's biggest airline group, to a deal with Delta would be money.
Hit by plummeting demand in a slumping global economy and swine flu fears, JAL incurred its biggest-ever quarterly net loss of 99 billion yen ($1 billion) in the three months to June.

The airline has forecast a net loss of 63 billion yen for the current fiscal year to March 2010. As part of restructuring, JAL plans to cut the number of flights and slash costs by 53 billion yen during the current fiscal year and another 100 billion yen in the next fiscal year.
Another motivation for Japan Airlines in talking to Delta about a tie-up could be Northwest's long history of airline operations in Japan. That experience could benefit JAL, said aviation consultant Mark Kiefer of CRA International in Boston.

"I think certainly in terms of the position they are in financially, it's in their interest to entertain really any kind of offers that might come their way," Kiefer said of Japan Airlines. "Whether or not they are also in talks with American, I don't know. It wouldn't surprise me to learn that they were."
American's Smith declined to say whether his airline also was talking to Japan Airlines about making a cash infusion in the carrier.

Kiefer said a hookup with Japan Airlines could be good for Delta.
"In general, you would expect these kinds of investments or arrangements to have some potential upside in being able to generate additional traffic and revenue for both airlines, but Delta in particular," Kiefer said.
Delta has cash to invest, though most major U.S. carriers have been trying to preserve their cash because of big revenue declines due to a steep dropoff in demand for air travel amid the global economic downturn.
As of June 30, Delta had $5.4 billion in unrestricted liquidity, including $4.9 billion in cash, cash equivalents and short-term investments and $500 million available under a line of credit. Delta said previously it expects the total figure to fall to $5 billion by the end of the third quarter, which ends Sept. 30.

Delta shares rose 5 cents to $8.15 in afternoon trading Friday.


Lee Moak better watch this one.



Bye Bye--General Lee


That is the point. There is potential for a huge upside for DAL and the DAL pilots, but if DALPA is not very very careful, it would have wide reaching implications for the group.
 

General Lee

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That is the point. There is potential for a huge upside for DAL and the DAL pilots, but if DALPA is not very very careful, it would have wide reaching implications for the group.

If Lee Moak didn't make sure he protected us with specific language, I would be surprised to say the least. It better have only upside potential. And, there better be something more in it for us, like a more 76 seaters..... oh wait, nevermind.........how about a Compass Staple and a little bit more....


Bye Bye--General Lee
 

ACL65PILOT

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If Lee Moak didn't make sure he protected us with specific language, I would be surprised to say the least. It better have only upside potential. And, there better be something more in it for us, like a more 76 seaters..... oh wait, nevermind.........how about a Compass Staple and a little bit more....


Bye Bye--General Lee

To say the least.

I am sure they are deciding the CPS representational fate today as well.
 

michael707767

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If Lee Moak didn't make sure he protected us with specific language, I would be surprised to say the least. It better have only upside potential. And, there better be something more in it for us, like a more 76 seaters..... oh wait, nevermind.........how about a Compass Staple and a little bit more....

Yeah, let's count on Moak to do the right thing and protect the Delta pilots.

Moak never drew a line he could not erase.
 

RedRum

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Enough
N.E.R.D. = Northwest Employees Refinancing Delta

I'm glad the 3.7B scooped up by Delta Air Lines is being put to good use. I just don't understand why we can't get our own house in order first. Aren't we in the middle of a merger right now?

Maybe if we stopped hemorrhaging money, this type of news wouldn't sound so strange.
 
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