DELTA and ASA What will happen?

[ASA_Aviator]

VoiceofReason and Goahead,

You guys might need to consider the long term view. If you don't mind staying at your current company forever, then it's easier to cross a picket line than if you think you might ever want to be hired by another ALPA carrier. I've heard that there are still captains who fly with the blacklist in their flight bags.

Additionally, I've heard that during the UAL strike, pilots who crossed the picket line had mysterious phone calls go to their spouses in which a woman claimed to be having an affair with their pilot husband. I believe that there was also some violence.

I'm not saying that is right or that it should happen or will happen, but it is a possibility that you have to consider.

Oh yeah, like anyone with half a brain would respond to that low-life threat crap. The first ALPA a hole that threatens me will learn that I don't play games, especially with ignorant union thugs.

We should dump the union, and think for ourselves. Why are we paying stupid unionites our good money to do something we can do for ourselves. Form an in-house union if we must, but stay away from the national corrupt thugs. I might as well just buy a house an East Point. At least I know what I'm getting there.

"Possibility I should consider" my a ss. Take your empty threats elsewhere.

 

[General Lee]

General

Here is a thought...

Lets say all this works out, no agreement made on scope, yaddaa yaddaa yaddaa..

What would keep Delta from "codesharing" flights with over 70 seats to another carrier? What would keep (insert regional here) from flying say CRJ 900s or ERJ-190s under their own code, and have them operate as a Delta codeshare flight. There is my bet right there to escape the scope clause, and still reap the benefits.

I think our guys could figure that out first. Scope covers DCI flying and code shares--- and other things like INTL block hours.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[General Lee]

General Lee, Me cago en tu puta madre, maricon.

Ch*pa me cabron.

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[FlyingSig]

Unless the Company immediately gives in to the DAL pilots, it will have to liquidate, thus ending the 3rd largest airline in the US and 76 years of aviation history.

But it was ok for you to cause the layoff and financial strain to well over a thousand Comair employees when you wanted a big fat raise back during your strike? Talk about kettle calling the pot black.

And what if the company immdiately does give in to us greedy DAL pilots? Why do you incinuate that would be a bad thing? After all, we're talking about a whole 4 days reveune that us greedy pilots want to keep to ourselves and our familys... oh yeah, maybe because if the company wins you might get some of "yours" back from your own concessions in the form of those "measly 9 seats".

 

[Pogue Mahone]

The first ALPA a hole that threatens me will learn that I don't play games, especially with ignorant union thugs.

Ooooooohhhhhh! Watch out, he doesn't play games.

Dork

 

[blueridge71]

Oh yeah, like anyone with half a brain would respond to that low-life threat crap. The first ALPA a hole that threatens me will learn that I don't play games, especially with ignorant union thugs.

We should dump the union, and think for ourselves. Why are we paying stupid unionites our good money to do something we can do for ourselves. Form an in-house union if we must, but stay away from the national corrupt thugs. I might as well just buy a house an East Point. At least I know what I'm getting there.

"Possibility I should consider" my a ss. Take your empty threats elsewhere.

That wasn't a threat and I'm not a unionist. I share many of your opinions on ALPA. I was merely pointing out the reality of the industry.

Union members get really sensitive about people who cross picket lines.

If you want to cross, go ahead. But with the exception of NW mechanics and CAL pilots, people who cross picket lines are normally expendable after the strike from management's point of view. You can be loyal to them, but I would not expect much loyalty in return.

 

[~~~^~~~]

SkyWest announced its intent to issue nearly $100 million in an IPO. They might be going shopping.

 

[blueridge71]

Can it be an IPO if they already have stock on the market?

Anyhoo, that is all that JA needs: another POd pilot group.

 

[General Lee]

SkyWest announced its intent to issue nearly $100 million in an IPO. They might be going shopping.

I think that article said they were paying off $90 million in debt from the ASA purchase.

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[surplus1]

But it was ok for you to cause the layoff and financial strain to well over a thousand Comair employees when you wanted a big fat raise back during your strike? Talk about kettle calling the pot black.

When we went on strike our company had just been acquired by your company and was doing quite well. It still would be had your company not destroyed it along with yours. A very different scenario -- apples to oranges.

And what if the company immdiately does give in to us greedy DAL pilots? Why do you incinuate that would be a bad thing? After all, we're talking about a whole 4 days reveune that us greedy pilots want to keep to ourselves and our familys... oh yeah, maybe because if the company wins you might get some of "yours" back from your own concessions in the form of those "measly 9 seats".

No, I would NOT think it a bad think if they gave in to you any more than I would think it a bad thing if you gave in to them. I would think either decision pragmatic.

I know it would be a penny-wise and dollar-foolish thing if either one of you forces a 76-year-old company to shut down in order to satisfy your mutual egos.

Not too long ago you conceded over a billion dollars per year to help save your failing company. It was a bitter bill but an intelligent move. It would be stupid to destroy it now over less than 10 seats in an airframe you will never fly anyway.

We have not given up as much as you in percentage but our pilots have conceded more than 1/4 of what was already very minimal, in two separate concessions, for the same reason that you did; an effort to survive.

Whose fault it is, is not relavant at this point in time. Management's acceptance of 100% blame will NOT change reality. Why the battles were lost makes good conversation at the local pub, but it won't win the war. Destroying your airline will guarantee that you LOSE the war, and so will we.

I don't want to lose the war over a bad decision that you make any more than you would want to lose it over a bad decision that I make. That's just common sense.

I my opinion, it's a better decision to settle the dispute and live to fight another day; even if you can't tdo it "your way". Regardless of how immediately painful the settlement will be, losing everything forever will be even more painful and terminal. It is not smart to lose all the equity in your house because you know that bump in the mortgage rate is "unfair".

Sometimes we have to eat that ole S**t sandwich for a short time rather than eat Ramen noodles for a very long time. Those who can't palate the sandwich will not be prevented from eating Ramen if they prefer to do so.

While I admire hard bargaining it is also true that "you gotta know when to hold 'em, know when to fold 'em." Right now, you don't even have a pair and the enemy does have a flush. If you stay in the game, the time will come when you have a full house again and they only have a straight.

Emotional decisions don't win this game.

 

[FlyingSig]

When we went on strike our company had just been acquired by your company and was doing quite well. It still would be had your company not destroyed it along with yours. A very different scenario -- apples to oranges.

No sir, that is as apples to apples as it gets. You threatened to strike knowing full well the impact it would have on your coworkers. Your actions caused them to be furloughed. The circumstances behind those actions matter not to those that were or will be affected.

Not too long ago you conceded over a billion dollars per year to help save your failing company. It was a bitter bill but an intelligent move. It would be stupid to destroy it now over less than 10 seats in an airframe you will never fly anyway.

Hardly the issue that will cause a strike, but I know you're smarter then that, you're just trying to push your own adjenda. THE issue, for those following along, is Delta management's choice to reject the contract rather then negotiate a contract. It's not the differances that will cause this strike, it's the action of tearing up our current contract.

We have not given up as much as you in percentage but our pilots have conceded more than 1/4 of what was already very minimal, in two separate concessions, for the same reason that you did; an effort to survive.

And when they come back for round 2 just they have for us... and when in round 2 they chose to use the courts rather then negotiate (just like your Flight Attendents face) - then what will you say? If you had truly wanted to save your company you would not have put a me-too clause in your concessions hinging on other work groups. You would have just given. That's what we did in round 1 because we really did care about saving the company and not just our personal bacon.

Management's acceptance of 100% blame will NOT change reality. Why the battles were lost makes good conversation at the local pub, but it won't win the war.

Wrong again. Acceptence of blame means dropping the 1113. When we can start fighting together as a company is when the war will be one. Until they drop the civil war the company will go nowhere anyway.

I my opinion, it's a better decision to settle the dispute and live to fight another day; even if you can't tdo it "your way". Regardless of how immediately painful the settlement will be, losing everything forever will be even more painful and terminal.

It's not a settlement when it is imposed on you.

While I admire hard bargaining it is also true that "you gotta know when to hold 'em, know when to fold 'em."

This is not a bluff. The other side wins nothing and in fact looses much more then I could ever dream of should they try to call our cards. Like you said, it might be a bitter pill for them to fold 'em over $140 million, but if they really want Delta to survive, then they need to negotiate a settlement and not impose terms.

Emotional decisions don't win this game.

Which is why you should take a step back and put yourself in our shoes instead of worrying about your 79 seater and your job security. I'd be willing to bet that poker hand you'd do the same thing.

 

[HarryParatestes]

Hey General Lee,
I took a leave of absense from Wendy's to work for CMR. After the Strike and Fall of Delta, you can clean the bathrooms. I have seniority.


just pulling yer chain there General.

 

[Halo_RJdriver]

"I say NOT"

I think our current position, which won't change much at all, is that we will allow some more 70 seaters to your fleets. IF you want to put first class seats in them, then go ahead. SkyWest flies CR7s with 3 classes---First, econ plus, and econ(for UAL). They only have 66 seats though, but I bet they are nice. CHQ would probably get some more E170s, and some pax I know really like them. Anything larger can be flown by us, since we have 475 furloughs still out there. IF they are recalled and we still need pilots, I say hire exclusively from ASA and CHQ. There you go fins, your dream of flying bigger planes with a DL logo or flag on the tail will become a reality. We have shrunk by 4000 pilots (10000-4000= 6000) and now have how many RJs? Could we lose more pilots to larger RJs? Oh yea. I won't vote for a TA with scope erosion. I bet over 50.1% won't either, and Lee Moak already stated that mainline will fly planes with more than 70 seats. He can reject any TA before we even get to see it.

Bye Bye--General Lee

Just when you make a little sense you come up with some godawful idea to include sihitfcukingTACO!!!! You may have a point giving preferential hiring to ASA but WTF has SihtbagTAco done for you and DAL??? Who is flying the the majority of mainline routes longer than 2 hours out of SLC and now DFW this summer??? SithbagscuttleTAco! Get real. Genral Flea. Don't cater to people like guppykiller and their filthy E180's.

I would rather fly Valujet than anything to do with repulick, scuttle butt, and all their other lavish names that are borderline alter ego.

Assuming you win your scope as we all hope it could be a great 2006. If you don't then good luck on your job as the new blue juice vendor for valujet!

 

[propjockey]

Somebody wasn't paying attention...

The other side wins nothing and in fact looses much more then I could ever dream of should they try to call our cards. Like you said, it might be a bitter pill for them to fold 'em over $140 million, but if they really want Delta to survive, then they need to negotiate a settlement and not impose terms.

Really? This is copied from my earlier post, and I stand by it (emphasis added):

Executives are always going to take care of themselves! Always, always, always!! You cannot hurt them. Even when you put them in jail they're out in a few months with most of their millions securely tucked away in offshore accounts. Putting Delta under will only hurt you and the ones you love.

 

[DrunkIrishman]

Halo-

There is no difference in what CHQ does from what ASA does. Cutting down CHQ while saying ASA is understandable is ignorant. Both companies fly equipment on DAL code. I believe both MEC's agreed to "help" furloughees.