Delta/Alaska, alliance---then acquisition of Alaska?? Article

[Superpilot92]

That's right, and that is what is fair. If you are at the bottom of a list, you should still be at the bottom of a combined list (really? so where is the last original DAL pilot on the DAL proposed list?). That is relative seniority. (is that relative seniority?)
Bye Bye--General Lee

unfortunately thats not the case. The last Original DAL pilot is 500+ numbers from the bottom. Relative position sounds nice in theory but it wasn't carried through with the DAL proposal. ALL DAL pilots getting a positive bump in seniority and ALL NWA pilots getting a negative bump in seniority combined with 500 NWA pilots stapled doesnt co-inside with your relative seniority position. Had they done a 7/5 ratio or something that ACTUALLY carried relative seniority it might have been more entertained.

 

[Noserider76]

Had they done a 7/5 ratio or something that ACTUALLY carried relative seniority it might have been more entertained.

You wanted us to propose a 7/5 ratio while you proposed DOH with 10 year fences?

 

[General Lee]

unfortunately thats not the case. The last Original DAL pilot is 500+ numbers from the bottom. Relative position sounds nice in theory but it wasn't carried through with the DAL proposal. ALL DAL pilots getting a positive bump in seniority and ALL NWA pilots getting a negative bump in seniority combined with 500 NWA pilots stapled doesnt co-inside with your relative seniority position. Had they done a 7/5 ratio or something that ACTUALLY carried relative seniority it might have been more entertained.

There is a reason for that, and I can't really get into that here. It has added credibility to our stance as of late, though.

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[Superpilot92]

You wanted us to propose a 7/5 ratio while you proposed DOH with 10 year fences?

No I didnt But in reality that is how a real "relative" list would look.

Hopefully the arbitrators find the medium ground. :beer:

 

[Superpilot92]

There is a reason for that, and I can't really get into that here. It has added credibility to our stance as of late, though.

Bye Bye--General Lee

well first the staple job was because of "dc9s going away", "furlough jets", etc. and now that thats not the case the argument is because of "pay" A staple is never a fair way to do anything, especially in a merger of "two equals"

 

[xray678]

No I didnt But in reality that is how a real "relative" list would look.

You are right. But DALPA did not propose a relative list, did they?

 

[xray678]

well first the staple job was because of "dc9s going away", "furlough jets", etc. and now that thats not the case the argument is because of "pay" A staple is never a fair way to do anything, especially in a merger of "two equals"

know what, I agree with you. But if you can't staple a bunch to the bottom because their equipment is the smallest, then you can't staple a bunch to the top because their equipment is the biggest.

 

[nwaredtail]

know what, I agree with you. But if you can't staple a bunch to the bottom because their equipment is the smallest, then you can't staple a bunch to the top because their equipment is the biggest.

Don't forget, they think they can do what they want because of the "we are delta" factor. Basically relative seniority with "a little extra for us" type scenario.

 

[General Lee]

Don't forget, they think they can do what they want because of the "we are delta" factor. Basically relative seniority with "a little extra for us" type scenario.

That is not what Nicelau did. He put the top 500 all USAir East because they brought something unique to the merger, even though that side was part of the "failing airline." While neither of us are failing, Delta is bringing growth(actual orders that will fly soon), more actual widebodies flying, higher pay, and a larger fleet in general. NWA, otoh, is full of older planes that pay the least on our combined pay scale, and have some planes that very well could be on the way out soon (some of those 742Fs look like they may be going away....). That is why we did that, and we also added some proof to our proposal last week. (during mediation with the arbitrator present) We'll see.......


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[ImbracableCrunk]

Why is this thread taxiing with it's flaps down?

or

What's all this about Northwest and Delta merging? When did that happen? Someone should start a thread!

 

[Fubijaakr]

Amen. All this SLI backchat should be on a DeltaWest thread.

 

[turbodriver]

If this ever happens, SHOOT ME NOW, PLEASE!!

I welcome a merger with Delta.

 

[tico]

I would rather swallow my AR-15 then spend a day under the guise of those homos that where the Titanic captain uniforms

 

[ACL65PILOT]

Not that I am the spelling police, but it is Wear not WHERE.

 

[number11]

Hey, here is Noserider's chart. If you want to refute any of it, please try.


Here's a rough comparison of age 65 retirements (the only sure thing) through 2028.

NW DL
2013 70 60
2014 96 75
2015 167 89
2016 183 136
2017 199 157
2018 230 218
2019 256 272
2020 285 348
2021 295 478
2022 343 567
2023 314 549
2024 283 544
2025 182 472
2026 180 422
2027 152 318
2028 122 311

Using 5300 NW pilots and 7500 DL pilots.

Over 20 years: NW DL
Total 3357 5016
Percentage 63.3% 66.9%

Over 10 years:
Total 945 735
Percentage 17.8% 9.8%

Years 10-20 2019-2028
NW DL
Total 2412 4281
Percentage 45.5% 57.1%

A few observations:

- Higher percentage of NW retirements in first 10 years.

- Higher percentage of DL retirements in years 10-20 and beyond.

- NW pilots will benefit from access to a larger, higher paying fleet at integration (ex fences).

- DL pilots will be exposed to a generally smaller, lower paying fleet at integration as well as the oldest aircraft in the combined fleet.

- 10 year fences seem timed precisely to allow NW pilots take advantage of their retirements then share the large increase in DL retirements.

- Any dynamic system would have to allow NW pilots to benefit from their retirements then DL pilots to benefit from their's. We'd be looking at a 20-25 dynamic list, fighting over who gets what new equipment the whole way.



Bye Bye--General Lee

01, quick question I came up on this list wondering why it starts at 2013! Do you have any numbers from 09-12? Just wondering!

 

[ACL65PILOT]

2013 is +5 for age 65.

Technically DAL will have two guys retire in December of 2012. One guy that made it by two days, and one that made it by about a week.

 

[SEVEN]

I hate to resurrect the General's old thread, but how close is Delta's acquisition of Alaska? Is it still on Anderson's to-do-list? Although with the Democrats in control, it is unlikely that the DOT will approve it. Thoughts.......

 

[General Lee]

I hate to resurrect the General's old thread, but how close is Delta's acquisition of Alaska? Is it still on Anderson's to-do-list? Although with the Democrats in control, it is unlikely that the DOT will approve it. Thoughts.......

Why would the DOT not approve it? There is NO overlap at all except between the various hubs. That's it. DL has a "close" code-share with them now, and they are moving into DL gates in ATL, MSP, and will be taking terminal 6 in LAX next to the DL planes in 5 and 6. If UAL and USAir get together, then AA or CAL may try something to grab some flying out West, and AK seems to be a logical choice. If that happens, I bet DL would try to protect the "close" code-share. SWA may try to throw something out there too, but they have a lot of overlap, and it is unlikely the DOT would approve that one.


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[SEVEN]

Why would the DOT not approve it? There is NO overlap at all except between the various hubs. That's it. DL has a "close" code-share with them now, and they are moving into DL gates in ATL, MSP, and will be taking terminal 6 in LAX next to the DL planes in 5 and 6. If UAL and USAir get together, then AA or CAL may try something to grab some flying out West, and AK seems to be a logical choice. If that happens, I bet DL would try to protect the "close" code-share. SWA may try to throw something out there too, but they have a lot of overlap, and it is unlikely the DOT would approve that one.


Bye Bye---General Lee

Not sure about the DOT. But if there were a DAL/Alaska purchase, Delta would be a massive force in the continental US. With the NWA merger and the Alaska purchase, they would control the west and east coast markets as well as the majority of the mid-states. Not sure if this will fly. Could be wrong though. I sold my DAL stock a few months back for a 35% gain...maybe I should buy some more. If a purchase takes place, I would not be surprised if it hits $20 a share.

 

[Mea25000]

ALK stock is almost $44.00 a share... Delta can not afford us!