Delta Air Lines 7/02/07 Class Breakdown

[ExFokkerFlyer]

Did they cross a picket line? No, therefore they aren't scabs. You know, some people have mouths to feed, don't criticize somebody's job choice unless you have walked in their shoes guys. Have a problem with GoJet? Fine, hold it against management, not the employees.

BTW, I don't work at GoJet... I just get tired of the word 'scab' being thrown around indescriminantly.

Anyway, this is all OT anyway and has been covered ad naseum already.

 

[eaglefly]

Cliff notes.....

Terrorist attacks.....
Multiple bankruptcies....
Multiple mainline scope clause violations by regionals trying to fly larger and larger equipment.....
One regional who is paying fines to a mainline carrier because of scope violations creates another carrier to avoid such nonsense.... (GoJets)
Regional pilots get POed because someone else is going to be doing "their" flying.....Pot meet kettle.
Regional pilots swear death oath than none of these "scabs" will ever get another job....

GoJet pilots get jobs at JB, CAL, and now DAL. It seems noone gives a #$#%.

A350

Pretty good summation of the future of this industry.

Marginal future because..............no one cares anymore. Every man for himself now.

ALPA set the bar when they welcomed the CAL pilots back with open arms just for the cash.

Might as well scab, cause nobody gives a damn anymore.....................

 

[On Your Six]

Cliff notes.....

Terrorist attacks.....
Multiple bankruptcies....
Multiple mainline scope clause violations by regionals trying to fly larger and larger equipment.....
One regional who is paying fines to a mainline carrier because of scope violations creates another carrier to avoid such nonsense.... (GoJets)
Regional pilots get POed because someone else is going to be doing "their" flying.....Pot meet kettle.
Regional pilots swear death oath than none of these "scabs" will ever get another job....

GoJet pilots get jobs at JB, CAL, and now DAL. It seems noone gives a #$#%.

A350

I understand why GoJet pilots are loved and fully accepted at JB - but the recent GJ pilot at DAL does not make much sense.

Well, you will always have an outlier. Clearly the GJ pilot at DAL knows someone at the top - daddy must be a 777 check airman....

 

[~~~^~~~]

Actually, there was a little more to it than that. I don't have my notes in front of me, someone feel free to update this if I've forgotten some detail.

As some have mentioned, GoJets was formed as an end run around mainline & regional scope restrictions (and it worked). The Certificate had the exact same people, management, maintenance, etc... as Trans States. We are not just talking alter ego, we are talking the exact same.

So the TSA pilots watched this parallel seniority list pop up on their property, a list with zero longevity. ALPA did the right thing and fought for a single carrier petition. (It has been done elsewhere, refer to Republic Airlines where Chautauqua, Republic, MidAtlantic and Shuttle America operate with the same seniority list and it is probably as fair a system as can be run across multiple certificates, heck, even Freedom / Mesa got one list)

The GoJets pilots fought ALPA because obviously they would have to give up their instant seniority.

So they aren't scabs, but they fought for alter ego replacement of an established seniority list on the property. I guess the only difference is an active strike at the time of the replacement. That is a distinction without a whole lot of difference.

Teamsters aligned with management and the GoJets pilots to defeat ALPA. The TSA pilots have not had an easy time of it, since the NMB has sanctioned their replacement with pilots who have no longevity (cheaper).

There are several very bad precedents set here:
(1) The NMB ruled that scope clauses alone were sufficient to determine that an airline is not "operationally integrated" to a sufficient degree to enforce single carrier findings.
(2) The idea that pilots should be safe from being replaced by their own airline has been dealt a serious blow because nothing more than external contract language can be used to deny a single carrier petition.

GoJets harms our profession. These pilots are replacement workers. They have not earned the label "scab," but the distinction is only the fact that the affected pilots were not on strike when the replacement occurred.

Do GoJets pilots get hired elsewhere? Sure. Did Eastern and Continental scabs get hired elsewhere? Sure... and at some airlines who would be embarrassed to admit it. But none of us has to cheer for them....

Delta has hired some really good, deserving, folks and you have to focus on supporting & helping the good guys.

Sorry about the thread creep.

 

[On Your Six]

The problem is stupidity. GoJet pilots willingly go there knowing they will be the outcasts of the industry (sorta like the Skybus pilots). They know they will be shunned by most other pilots in the industry. And yet they demand respect despite the fact that they know they will be viewed as parriahs. Why would any sane pilot go to GoJet when other viable regionals exists (Coex, RPA, Eagle, Horizon, etc.)? It's called stupidity and an absence of long-range thinking...

In this case, a GoJet pilot is hired by Delta because he/she has a parent who works there. Nepotism is nothing new in the airline business, but it should be viewed as an isolated incident. Sure, Jet Blue will hire you regardless of your background so long as you meet the minimums - that is the message A350 is sending...

 

[~~~^~~~]

Why would any sane pilot go to GoJet when other viable regionals exists (Coex, RPA, Eagle, Horizon, etc.)? It's called stupidity and an absence of long-range thinking...

Because of the instant Captain upgrade at an established airline. It might be excellent long range thinking if the ticket is PIC time. But obviously it harms the thousand or so folks that just got passed on the seniority list at that carrier.

It is a career version of breaking in the line.

You are correct to make an issue of it and such behavior should not be rewarded. Just my humble opinion.

 

[Hose A. Jiminez]

So were these guys all hired off the street or did they leave the bottom of the list at TSA for a higher spot at GJ?

 

[GogglesPisano]

How many new hires this year to date?

 

[~~~^~~~]

How many new hires this year to date?

130 - according to someone in class this week. Supposed to continue hiring at 50 a month through 2008, but no official announcements yet. But just look what is coming, at least 8 777's, at least 10 757's, at least 10 737's and possibly 20 something MD90's and possibly some sort of 100 seater on the horizon. That is around 350 pilots' worth of airplanes that are not on the property yet. Anyone have better intel on this?

 

[Tantrum]

We were told they would have to staff those new 777s with about 17 crews per plane as they would all be doing ultra long haul stuff with two complete crews for each leg. That alone is 272 new hires. The 757s are all slated to be international as well, so expect the staffing level to be high on those as well. With just the planes scheduled to come online in the next 1.5 years, I can easily see at least 500 new hires.