Delta Air Lines 7/02/07 Class Breakdown

[ExFokkerFlyer]

Did they cross a picket line? No, therefore they aren't scabs. You know, some people have mouths to feed, don't criticize somebody's job choice unless you have walked in their shoes guys. Have a problem with GoJet? Fine, hold it against management, not the employees.

BTW, I don't work at GoJet... I just get tired of the word 'scab' being thrown around indescriminantly.

Anyway, this is all OT anyway and has been covered ad naseum already.

 

[eaglefly]

Cliff notes.....

Terrorist attacks.....
Multiple bankruptcies....
Multiple mainline scope clause violations by regionals trying to fly larger and larger equipment.....
One regional who is paying fines to a mainline carrier because of scope violations creates another carrier to avoid such nonsense.... (GoJets)
Regional pilots get POed because someone else is going to be doing "their" flying.....Pot meet kettle.
Regional pilots swear death oath than none of these "scabs" will ever get another job....

GoJet pilots get jobs at JB, CAL, and now DAL. It seems noone gives a #$#%.

A350

Pretty good summation of the future of this industry.

Marginal future because..............no one cares anymore. Every man for himself now.

ALPA set the bar when they welcomed the CAL pilots back with open arms just for the cash.

Might as well scab, cause nobody gives a damn anymore.....................

 

[On Your Six]

Cliff notes.....

Terrorist attacks.....
Multiple bankruptcies....
Multiple mainline scope clause violations by regionals trying to fly larger and larger equipment.....
One regional who is paying fines to a mainline carrier because of scope violations creates another carrier to avoid such nonsense.... (GoJets)
Regional pilots get POed because someone else is going to be doing "their" flying.....Pot meet kettle.
Regional pilots swear death oath than none of these "scabs" will ever get another job....

GoJet pilots get jobs at JB, CAL, and now DAL. It seems noone gives a #$#%.

A350

I understand why GoJet pilots are loved and fully accepted at JB - but the recent GJ pilot at DAL does not make much sense.

Well, you will always have an outlier. Clearly the GJ pilot at DAL knows someone at the top - daddy must be a 777 check airman....

 

[~~~^~~~]

Actually, there was a little more to it than that. I don't have my notes in front of me, someone feel free to update this if I've forgotten some detail.

As some have mentioned, GoJets was formed as an end run around mainline & regional scope restrictions (and it worked). The Certificate had the exact same people, management, maintenance, etc... as Trans States. We are not just talking alter ego, we are talking the exact same.

So the TSA pilots watched this parallel seniority list pop up on their property, a list with zero longevity. ALPA did the right thing and fought for a single carrier petition. (It has been done elsewhere, refer to Republic Airlines where Chautauqua, Republic, MidAtlantic and Shuttle America operate with the same seniority list and it is probably as fair a system as can be run across multiple certificates, heck, even Freedom / Mesa got one list)

The GoJets pilots fought ALPA because obviously they would have to give up their instant seniority.

So they aren't scabs, but they fought for alter ego replacement of an established seniority list on the property. I guess the only difference is an active strike at the time of the replacement. That is a distinction without a whole lot of difference.

Teamsters aligned with management and the GoJets pilots to defeat ALPA. The TSA pilots have not had an easy time of it, since the NMB has sanctioned their replacement with pilots who have no longevity (cheaper).

There are several very bad precedents set here:
(1) The NMB ruled that scope clauses alone were sufficient to determine that an airline is not "operationally integrated" to a sufficient degree to enforce single carrier findings.
(2) The idea that pilots should be safe from being replaced by their own airline has been dealt a serious blow because nothing more than external contract language can be used to deny a single carrier petition.

GoJets harms our profession. These pilots are replacement workers. They have not earned the label "scab," but the distinction is only the fact that the affected pilots were not on strike when the replacement occurred.

Do GoJets pilots get hired elsewhere? Sure. Did Eastern and Continental scabs get hired elsewhere? Sure... and at some airlines who would be embarrassed to admit it. But none of us has to cheer for them....

Delta has hired some really good, deserving, folks and you have to focus on supporting & helping the good guys.

Sorry about the thread creep.

 

[On Your Six]

The problem is stupidity. GoJet pilots willingly go there knowing they will be the outcasts of the industry (sorta like the Skybus pilots). They know they will be shunned by most other pilots in the industry. And yet they demand respect despite the fact that they know they will be viewed as parriahs. Why would any sane pilot go to GoJet when other viable regionals exists (Coex, RPA, Eagle, Horizon, etc.)? It's called stupidity and an absence of long-range thinking...

In this case, a GoJet pilot is hired by Delta because he/she has a parent who works there. Nepotism is nothing new in the airline business, but it should be viewed as an isolated incident. Sure, Jet Blue will hire you regardless of your background so long as you meet the minimums - that is the message A350 is sending...

 

[~~~^~~~]

Why would any sane pilot go to GoJet when other viable regionals exists (Coex, RPA, Eagle, Horizon, etc.)? It's called stupidity and an absence of long-range thinking...

Because of the instant Captain upgrade at an established airline. It might be excellent long range thinking if the ticket is PIC time. But obviously it harms the thousand or so folks that just got passed on the seniority list at that carrier.

It is a career version of breaking in the line.

You are correct to make an issue of it and such behavior should not be rewarded. Just my humble opinion.

 

[Hose A. Jiminez]

So were these guys all hired off the street or did they leave the bottom of the list at TSA for a higher spot at GJ?

 

[GogglesPisano]

How many new hires this year to date?

 

[~~~^~~~]

How many new hires this year to date?

130 - according to someone in class this week. Supposed to continue hiring at 50 a month through 2008, but no official announcements yet. But just look what is coming, at least 8 777's, at least 10 757's, at least 10 737's and possibly 20 something MD90's and possibly some sort of 100 seater on the horizon. That is around 350 pilots' worth of airplanes that are not on the property yet. Anyone have better intel on this?

 

[Tantrum]

We were told they would have to staff those new 777s with about 17 crews per plane as they would all be doing ultra long haul stuff with two complete crews for each leg. That alone is 272 new hires. The 757s are all slated to be international as well, so expect the staffing level to be high on those as well. With just the planes scheduled to come online in the next 1.5 years, I can easily see at least 500 new hires.

 

[minrest]

i would think that you would need more that 17 pilots to staff a long haul 777. I would think the number would be more like 30. Anyone have any staffing formulas?

 

[ACL65PILOT]

It takes about six to seven crews per 777. That is four pilots per crew. So about 24-28 pilots per aircraft, plus instructors for each airframe. Basically there will be a large sucking sound when these birds come on property.
All of the routes that it will do are 12+ except LAX-ATL.

 

[ACL65PILOT]

500 is a very conservative number.
Also expect a 737 order is the mid to upper double digits in the near future. (700's and 800's) Of course the price will have to be right.

 

[Heavy Set]

130 - according to someone in class this week. Supposed to continue hiring at 50 a month through 2008, but no official announcements yet. But just look what is coming, at least 8 777's, at least 10 757's, at least 10 737's and possibly 20 something MD90's and possibly some sort of 100 seater on the horizon. That is around 350 pilots' worth of airplanes that are not on the property yet. Anyone have better intel on this?

My friends there said 15 777s by 2010, 13-15 ex TWA 757s, 20 or more 737-700s, and possibly some MD90s from China. They said they have heard rumors about a possible 100 seater also, but nothing concrete, along with a phantom 787 order. A lot of this could be announced by a new CEO that is appointed soon.

 

[Heavy Set]

It takes about six to seven crews per 777. That is four pilots per crew. So about 24-28 pilots per aircraft, plus instructors for each airframe. Basically there will be a large sucking sound when these birds come on property.
All of the routes that it will do are 12+ except LAX-ATL.

You have to remember that these new 777s will be LR versions, which means LONG RANGE. Long range means more crews because the trips will all be 14-15 hour legs, which means maybe two of those a month plus a Tel Aviv to bring you up to the cap or higher. If Delta does get that many LRs, there will be nonstops from ATL to Joburg, Mumbai, PEK (eventually), and many others. That will add hundreds of 777 FO and Capt slots, and if the flights are daily that means 28 pilots per week will fly each nonstop trip to each of those city pairings. I think there will be more than 24-28 pilots per 777LR, and you also have to have a few reserves available for each plane too. In other words, lots of pilots will be needed. And if Delta gets 787s and starts even more nonstop flights from ATL Worldport, then the numbers will increase even more.

 

[BILL LUMBERG]

500 is a very conservative number.
Also expect a 737 order is the mid to upper double digits in the near future. (700's and 800's) Of course the price will have to be right.

ACL65.......

BS flag raised on the 737 order........quite the contrary from a reliable source......

And what's this business we are hiring Comair Rouge?? General?? 737?? Good God!!! How did this happen??!?!?!

For the record, bring on every ASA pilot we can find, in fact, Go-jet guys were just paying their bills, the Comair scumbags didn't even give our furloughees a chance to pay theirs.........

 

[ACL65PILOT]

Funny. I hope that you are correct about the 737's I was told something exactly the opposite from someone in the fleet program.
I would be surprised to see it since they just sold a lot of their options, but then again nothing surprises me in this industry.
What does you source say? Many 100 seaters?

 

[BILL LUMBERG]

The 737 program shelved....Paris airshow was a major push by Jimmy W and the other legacies to get something on the board that the LCC's don't have......Newer tech and fuel savings OR settle for the 737-600 if the price comes down...WAY down which ain't gonna happen......not too keen on the 195....It's knock is according to 4'th floor studies is it can't carry 100 peoples bags due to bulk, not weight..

Don't listen to the DGS guys......they were/are in it for themselves.

 

[instructordude]

I'm proud a Gojeter made the cut!

 

[Scrapdog]

I'm proud a Gojeter made the cut!

Hey Maverick - for the love of God, please just STFU! You are a complete tool and a Gojeter that will never make the cut, besides making the worst cut of all and getting hired at the clown outfit you're currently with. Don't forget your floppy shoes next time you hop up in the RJ.

 

[capt. megadeth]

You said it Sweet cheeks!

Hey Maverick - for the love of God, please just STFU! You are a complete tool and a Gojeter that will never make the cut, besides making the worst cut of all and getting hired at the clown outfit you're currently with. Don't forget your floppy shoes next time you hop up in the RJ.

 

[737 Pylt]

I'm proud a Gojeter made the cut!

Yeah, with your sister....And he needed to go right to the doctor afterwards!
What do you guys do to each other there at Gay Jets?

737

 

[737 Pylt]

And what's this business we are hiring Comair Rouge?? General?? 737?? Good God!!! How did this happen??!?!?!

Quite dissapointing. I wonder if N2264J would be so kind as to send me his resume along with Dan and Jesse's. The bathrooms in the JFK terminal could use some re-painting/papering!:smash:

737

 

[Jeff Lebowski]

Former TSAer here...

i never post here, but this go jet bs has my blood boiling.

No one at TSA ever had to go to go jets to save their job. So this whole, "I had to do it for my family," stuff is nonsense.

Those who left TSA to go to go jets, as well as those who hired on there from the outside...

You knew exactly what you were doing.

You are scum.

You may not be scabs, but you screwed over fellow pilots whether you ever knew them or not.

I speak for all TSA alums (that didnt go to go jets) and present water skiers when i say that we will never forget what those go jet scum bags did to us.

Liken it to you best buddy sleeping with your girl.

Thats how it felt.

You scum bags aren't welcome in our jumpseats or at whatever airlines we might happen to get to.

I wouldn't p!$$ on a go jet pilot if they were on fire.

sincerely Jeff Lebowski (aka quietfrog)

F Go Jets.

 

[FmrFreightDog]

nevermind

 

[spongebob]

[quote=~~~^~~~;1364352

Delta has hired some really good, deserving, folks and you have to focus on supporting & helping the good guys.


Most people on this forum have not been here long enough to remember the anti mainline garbage spilled by ~~~^~~~ who now seems to love Delta.

Now that he could not get seniority handed to him by a judge, he rails against GoJet pilots who did what he and his buds attempted at Delta.

I hope he never sets foot in a Delta cockpit and because he only has the bolas to post in anonymity, he may slip by the hiring people (or already has).

What a two faced hypocrite.

SB

 

[N2264J]

As far as Comair goes, I would say the same. If it were up to the actual line pilots...

And there you have it - it isn't.

Management hires the pilots and cares not a whit about an internal union dispute.

And Comair pilots aren't concerned at all about the intimidation tactics and empty threats of the ignorant, backwater forum bullies who brandish their manhood here.

 

[Hamfighter]

Rumors of Chinese MD90's. The Chinese like RJ's. Maybe you could swap....

That's actually the plan, "if the price is right."

 

[On Your Six]

And there you have it - it isn't.

Management hires the pilots and cares not a whit about an internal union dispute.

And Comair pilots aren't concerned at all about the intimidation tactics and empty threats of the ignorant, backwater forum bullies who brandish their manhood here.

Wrong. I know pilots involved in the process - the ones involved in the interviews. They have a say and they have opinions. Don't forget that.

 

[N2264J]

Wrong. I know pilots involved in the process - the ones involved in the interviews. They have a say and they have opinions. Don't forget that.

They're management pilots doing management's bidding. Delta will hire those who fit the profile and couldn't care less about an internal union scrabble.

Comair did as well as the Air Force in this batch and better than the Navy and Marines. Give it a rest.