Delta 777-300ER ?

[Airboss]

Looks like it could be a possibilty. This is from a flight ops letter.


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Did You Know​

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Did you know that on the B-777-​

[FONT=TimesNewRoman,Bold]300ER [/FONT]you turn the ground cameras on by depressing a switch on the DSP. (It’s where the spare slot is on our DSP). There are three ground cameras that are used to monitor your ground track during taxi. The cameras for the main gear are located on either side of the horizontal stabilizer and are gyro based to stay focused on the main gear regardless of stabilizer position. The nose gear camera is located on the belly of the airplane and is on a hard mount. The cameras will operate in flight and the view of the contrails coming off the back of the engines is really cool. So​

why am I telling you this? If you cannot read between the lines, you will figure it out later.​

 

[Tomct]

Um Yeah....they have to exit BK FIRST and HOPE that Boeing will give them an opportunity for an 300ER. Last I heard, American was the ONLY U.S. carrier that had the option for the 300. Plus, Delta has NEVER been one to go big on Large aircraft. The L-1011, I believe that they had 35 max. MD-11...18 max and 747...8 aircraft, I think. I may have to look that one up. Only time will tell! The definition of Large Aircraft in this case, does NOT include the 767, even though it is a HEAVY aircraft. Let's say aircraft over 600,000 lbs and above~!

 

[michael707767]

Looks like it could be a possibilty. This is from a flight ops letter.

what flight ops letter would that be, cause I have looked at everything I can find from flight ops and on the flight ops page of the Delta Net and I don't see anything like this.

 

[Pat Fabin]

I think you will be very suprised by Delta (in a good way) in the coming months. Delta will be out of BK next year along with some very nice fleet expansion. We will definitely have to hire at that point.

Flame away!

ps...that little blurb is at the end of this months 777 CLCP newsletter. Click 777 on DLNET. Those guys normally are pretty informed.

 

[michael707767]

ps...that little blurb is at the end of this months 777 CLCP newsletter. Click 777 on DLNET. Those guys normally are pretty informed.

ok, I take back my last post. I did in fact find it. Last paragraph of the 777 CLCP letter. Interesting

 

[FDJ2]

Um Yeah....they have to exit BK FIRST and HOPE that Boeing will give them an opportunity for an 300ER.

Where is it written in stone that DAL can not purchase aircraft while in BK, or modify existing orders?

 

[johnsonrod]

Um Yeah....they have to exit BK FIRST and HOPE that Boeing will give them an opportunity for an 300ER. Last I heard, American was the ONLY U.S. carrier that had the option for the 300. Plus, Delta has NEVER been one to go big on Large aircraft. The L-1011, I believe that they had 35 max. MD-11...18 max and 747...8 aircraft, I think. I may have to look that one up. Only time will tell! The definition of Large Aircraft in this case, does NOT include the 767, even though it is a HEAVY aircraft. Let's say aircraft over 600,000 lbs and above~!

Just look at Air Canada... It was near liquidation at one point and it ordered 777s and 787s. Delta has proven routes and considerable infrastructure set up - it has a predictable cash flow on its international routes and that is what is needed to justify the financing going forward.

 

[Tomct]

Okay, so they MIGHT be able to get some aircraft, but they have NEVER been big on "LARGE" Aircraft. I.E. Very Conservative!! That came from a friend of mine that has been at BiG D for over 15 YEARS. I was asking HIM why Delta did not buy a boat load of 777's like everyone else did! That was his statement! Discuss!!!!!

 

[General Lee]

Okay, so they MIGHT be able to get some aircraft, but they have NEVER been big on "LARGE" Aircraft. I.E. Very Conservative!! That came from a friend of mine that has been at BiG D for over 15 YEARS. I was asking HIM why Delta did not buy a boat load of 777's like everyone else did! That was his statement! Discuss!!!!!

We might be able to find some used aircraft on the market at very good lease rates to cover for domestic 767s going to the INTL side too. A lot of airlines overseas are getting rid of their MD80 type aircraft and going Airbus. Finnair just announced the intention to sell their MD80s. Iberia and some airlines in Tiawan are getting rid of MD88s and MD90s. Southwest and Airtran have cornered the new 737-700 market for the next few years, and other airlines around the world are going for new Airbi. That would leave a glut in used aircraft that could fill the gap until we could get newer aircraft like 737-700s. That is where I see some expansion possible, and the lease rates would likely be lower per month than new CR7s. Some of those ex TWA 757s may also be leased from what I have heard too. We shall see......


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[johnsonrod]

Okay, so they MIGHT be able to get some aircraft, but they have NEVER been big on "LARGE" Aircraft. I.E. Very Conservative!! That came from a friend of mine that has been at BiG D for over 15 YEARS. I was asking HIM why Delta did not buy a boat load of 777's like everyone else did! That was his statement! Discuss!!!!!

Of course, Delta was never this focused on international flying either. Now that all of the "money" is to be found flying internationally (without SWA and Jet Blue), it is important to secure appropriate aircraft for the job. Delta is far more internationally focused now - that's the difference...

 

[GogglesPisano]

They had 56 L1011's at one time in the late 90's.

 

[Tomct]

:0Sorry Goggles, that 35 figure was from a retired L-1011 Captain.

Johnsonrod, I agree with you. Delta is now focusing more on Intl flying and I HOPE that they LOAD UP on 777's and maybe they can get Primaris's 787 orders. I believe that would be VERY GOOD for Delta!

General, I agree with you about being able to find older aircraft, but would Delta really want those? More mx problems and they would have a HARD TIME competing against WN & B6. Those older 75's would be a GREAT BUY!! We shall see!

 

[80for80]

According to experts at Airliners.net Delta had 56 L1011s at it's height.

 

[Airboss]

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This was from MAY's 777 CLCP Newsletter.

Rumor of the Day​

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It is rumored the B-777 will be flying between JFK-BOM-JFK in the near future. There is no word on the routing, but the current Mumbai flights go over Iranian airspace where there is critical terrain. If for some reason the Iranian airspace is closed off to us, we do have over fly authority for the countries of Syria, Jordan, Lebanon, and Saudi Arabia. If we start flying the above flight segment, then we will have to give up a current destination in return. So, be careful what you ask for. Look for a November 1, 2006 start
up date and an increase in the thrust and gross weight. Rumor has it that the thrust will increase to 95,000 lbs. pre side and the max T/O weight will increase to 656,000 lbs.​

 

[720persecond]

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This was from MAY's 777 CLCP Newsletter.

Rumor of the Day​

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It is rumored the B-777 will be flying between JFK-BOM-JFK in the near future. There is no word on the routing, but the current Mumbai flights go over Iranian airspace where there is critical terrain. If for some reason the Iranian airspace is closed off to us, we do have over fly authority for the countries of Syria, Jordan, Lebanon, and Saudi Arabia. If we start flying the above flight segment, then we will have to give up a current destination in return. So, be careful what you ask for. Look for a November 1, 2006 start
up date and an increase in the thrust and gross weight. Rumor has it that the thrust will increase to 95,000 lbs. pre side and the max T/O weight will increase to 656,000 lbs.​

Congrats to your next flights. Sounds like exciting opportunities.
The highest mountain part is around Afghanistan/Pakistan/Northwest India. In a past life, we used to have escape routes, in case of engine failure/decompression with terrain at around 26,000-27,000 FT.

Oh and Bombay...Mumbai now...what a layover !

 

[satlol]

The definition of Large Aircraft in this case, does NOT include the 767, even though it is a HEAVY aircraft. Let's say aircraft over 600,000 lbs and above~!

Try telling that to some of the senior guys at my company that think the CRJ-700 is a "heavy" aircraft???

 

[Tomct]

Try telling that to some of the senior guys at my company that think the CRJ-700 is a "heavy" aircraft???

:laugh:Satlol, that is just SAD!!!

 

[Airboss]

Delta 777 July's newsletter....no announcement yet but.....

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It’s Never too Early to Start Studying​

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Weight Limitations

Model Max Taxi Max T/O Max Landing Max ZFW
B-777-200LR 768,000 766,000 492,000 461,000
B-777-300ER 777,000 775,000 554,000 524,000
The thrust rating for the LR is 110,100 lbs. per engine while the 300ER has a thrust rating of 115,300 lbs. per engine.​

 

[Tomct]

Airboss, that is because the 777 is packing "The Big Dawgs!!!" Gotta LOVE that power baby!

 

[SuperKooter]

Its funny that Air Frances owns the most 777 out of anyone. US carriers should be forced to only buy Boeing Products.

 

[G4G5]

Where is it written in stone that DAL can not purchase aircraft while in BK, or modify existing orders?

Correct me if I am wrong but the Bk judge would have to grant his approval and it's his job is to look out for the best interests of the creditors.

Even Johnny Cochran could justify why he needed new aircraft while he was trying to justify to the same judge why he can't pay his pension obligations, why every share holder should be happy their shares are worthless and why the creditors should only accept cents on a dollar.

While it may not be written in stone, it might as well be.

 

[n757st]

Its funny that Air Frances owns the most 777 out of anyone. US carriers should be forced to only buy Boeing Products.

Not trying to be a dork, but I think that Singapore is the largest operator, but soon it will be Emirates. <Dork mode off>

 

[Tomct]

Not trying to be a dork, but I think that Singapore is the largest operator, but soon it will be Emirates. <Dork mode off>

757, I believe that you are correct sir! Good to know that the Asian Carriers purchase the RIGHT kind of aircraft!!

 

[michael707767]

Correct me if I am wrong but the Bk judge would have to grant his approval and it's his job is to look out for the best interests of the creditors.

Even Johnny Cochran could justify why he needed new aircraft while he was trying to justify to the same judge why he can't pay his pension obligations, why every share holder should be happy their shares are worthless and why the creditors should only accept cents on a dollar. .

The judge is responsible for the creditors interests. It would be easy to make a case that new airplanes will increase revenue, which will allow Delta to pay more of their debts. How is that not in the creditors interest?

Further gettting a loan to buy a new aircraft is not the same thing as paying for the pension. First of all, no one is going to lend Delta money to pay the pensions. Second, money borrowed to pay for an aircraft is money invested in equipment which will generate revenue. Money paid to a pension generates no revenue. Last, same thing applies to the penions that applies to paying debts (yes I think the pension is a debt), by that I mean if a new airplane increases revenue, it means Delta has a better chance of paying for the pensions.

 

[G4G5]

It's been a while since my last accounting course.

What do you call it when you purchase something and you don't pay it off? I believe that it is refereed to as debt and goes on the books as debt. Find me a Bk judge that will let you increase debt in BK while trying to justify why you can't pay your bills.

When you have a credit rating of junk because you are BK, what type of interest rate do you think that you will get? What Bk judge is going to accept the worst possible terms from a bank so that DAL can buy new aircraft?

Creditors don't care about new aircraft they want THEIR MONEY! All of it not 30c on a dollar so that they can help fund the down payment to Boeing.

 

[michael707767]

It's been a while since my last accounting course.

What do you call it when you purchase something and you don't pay it off? I believe that it is refereed to as debt and goes on the books as debt. Find me a Bk judge that will let you increase debt in BK while trying to justify why you can't pay your bills.Creditors don't care about new aircraft they want THEIR MONEY! All of it not 30c on a dollar so that they can help fund the down payment to Boeing.

Been a while since I took accounting too, but I know for sure there have been airlines that took delivery of new airplanes while in bankruptcy. NWA being the most recent.

 

[G4G5]

It's a different situation, if (as in NWA's case) you are contractually obligated to the new aircraft prior to the BK. Once you enter BK you have 3 choices, you can chose to have the contract tossed out in BK court, leave it as is, or try to renegotiate it.

This is a huge difference because unlike DAL, NWA already had firm commitments to these aircraft.

 

[Pat Fabin]

G4G5,

Well they've asked for approval of the 10 757s...but then again they aren't scheduled for delivery until after we come out of BK.

I think if you can convince the BK court of your business plan, they'll approve things more often than not. Heck, UAL had no business plan for 3 years and I can't remember their judge saying no to any of their requests.

-PF

 

[michael707767]

This is a huge difference because unlike DAL, NWA already had firm commitments to these aircraft.

Delta had firm orders for 777s before they entered BK. They were able to defer some, but not all. As of yet, we have not seen anything firm beyond the 2 777s that are coming in 08, which again, were existing orders.

Delta also has firm orders for the 738, some of which they were able to defer, some they were not. If both Boeing and Delta are agreeable I see nothing wrong with converting some of the 738 orders to 777s if thats what will help bring in the most revenue for Delta.

Bottom line is like Pat Fabin said.....if you can provide sound business plan the judge will probably approve it.

 

[GogglesPisano]

DL will have to order a lot of new aircraft to keep up CAL. The MD88's and even the 757's are getting old and are no longer in production. They will need more fuel-efficient aircraft to go head to head with the Europeans in the trans-atlantic arena.

Unfortunately, this also means more debt.