Delay of 9E/XJ/9L list

[bri5150]

Why is it that it is always Colgan and Mesaba together against Pinnacle? Heck, Colgan and Pinnacle were already owned by the same holding company before this, and had a working relationship.

 

[Flyer1015]

Wait, 1500>1300ish? Hmmm. Maybe the leak was made to try and turn the 1300ish against XJ so they can get more votes? Naaahhhh....

Don't kid yourself. XJ has already shot themselves in the foot with all 1,350 Pinnacle pilots. Add the fact a vacancy closes in less than 48 hours, that is even less movement that XJ pilots can be exposed to. Especially the junior XJ guys. Oops!

 

[gojo]

Too true. I don't care what the final view was for XJ, 9E, or 9L. The final views won't matter, only Bloch's final award matters. But what you have now is an intentional, deliberate attempt by a certain group to try and screw the 9E group. XJ and 9L are already on a level playing field with class date DOH. 9E had the correction per LOA2V, but XJ is disputing it by using the two-part definition of date of hire under ALPA merger policy. Sorry, but there is no more unity. I have a copy of JMs email, and I see no unity in it. And if any XJ guy thinks that after this is over, you're gonna sweep elections, then you're as dumb as Palin during the 2008 campaign elections. 1,350 pilots (out of ~2900) are extremely POed at XJ's recent actions, both on May 23 and on June 2. There is no unity, and not only that, the XJ's dispute of intentionally trying to screw 9E over class date seniority is something 9Eers will not forget when it comes time for elections. The last person (or group) I want leading us is one who will bend over backwards to screw 1,350 pilots out of 2900 on integration. It's one thing if everyone was at Point B and Pinnacle was the only one trying to get Point A while others are left behind at B. But that's clearly not the case. XJ and 9L are already at point A, and Pinnacle still stuck at Point B, even though Letter V allows them to come to Point A like the others.

Flyer, I don't understand why you feel it's ok for one group to act this way and not the others. I'm not saying it is, but Since July 1st much of what I've been hearing from the Pinnacle side has to do with sticking it to the other guys. First there was the 98 LOA and how we should be integrated at 5:1 or if we are lucky 3:1 Then there was the picketing debacle when negotiations were going well. Colgan grew off the backs of Pinnacle pilots, and therefore should be stapeled, outrageous proposals during the SLI process that show a total disregard to Colgan and Mesaba pilots. I keep hearing that is was their job to protect their pilots, and that's why their propasals were so one sided, but before the process even started they agreed to try and find a fair and equitable solution for everyone, not just the 9E group. I know things have been said and done from people at all three companies, but when you speak of unity, your group has no room to talk

 

[Flyer1015]

Why is it that it is always Colgan and Mesaba together against Pinnacle?

Both Mesaba and Colgan already have their class date as DOH. They are arguing against Pinnacle getting class date as DOH. Instead, both want Pinnacle to use the sim date, and are trying to use ALPA's merger policy's two main definitions of date of hire to try and prove their case. So they are together against Pinnacle to try and screw them out of 2-3 months seniority on average.

 

[Flyer1015]

gojo, this is entirely separate. Each group, I will argue, fought hard for their own benefit. DOH benefits mostly XJ, relative benefits mostly Colgan, and stat/cat benefits 9E. But those methods could, and have been, poof! Gone. They are not the final award. Only Bloch's decision will be final. That could be anything. Instead, what you have, is two groups trying to now deliberately screw 9E out of seniority, by using definitions of date of hire.

 

[Flyer1015]

I'm still waiting for a Mesaba pilot to answer the impossible:

Not to mention, in the XJ's attempt to screw over 9E pilots on their seniority, do you realize what the other (impossible) alternative is? The only other alternative would be to align seniority date with sim date of hire. This would mean your sim date DOH would represent your seniority date, regardless of class seniority. This is the new re-alignment that would come if the XJ dispute was awarded. But think about it. The checkrides did not go in order. I went before 3 other older pilots simply because of the way training scheduling worked it out. Under the new method, you'd have to reorder the entire 9E list, and that is not allowed by ALPA bylaws. Not only that, you'd have many people jump over others they are currently junior to, because they took their sim checkride first. For example, I took mine before 3 guys did who are in my class and currently senior to me. If you XJ people want your wish and dispute to come out true, I would have to jump these 3 pilots in seniority and be considered more senior to them because of my "new" seniority being my date of hire on sim check date. This is against merger policy. You are in a catch-22.

The ONLY fair way, without having to go through the illegal mess above, is to accept Letter V and take every pilot's initial pilot newhire class date as their DOH. This is the only fair, clean way that will ensure that nothing gets ugly.

 

[CptMurf]

It was brought up, not entered as a dispute. Moral? Necessary? I think it wasn't moral to bring up something that your group already agreed to. Letter V and the Process/protocol agreement allows changes to a pilot's data until the SLI process is complete. The SLI process is not complete, therefore, per Letter V, Pinnacle pilots will have their DOHs adjusted to the date they commenced training. Class date. Disputing the OBVIOUS, printed in black ink on white paper, constitutes a CANNON fired in YOUR senority grab.

Which brings us full circle to my post on the original intent of the LOA. Forgive me if I don't accept Higneys statement. That's only 9Es side of it, I'm sure that was what his union was implying of wanted with the LOA. That does not mean that was what XJ was signing onto. Think about it... The car salesmen says he'll throw in an extended warranty, but the finance guy doesn't write it into the deal. Do you dispute it? Does that reopen negotiations? Is that a cannon fired, or are you just defending yourself?

 

[bri5150]

Don't kid yourself. XJ has already shot themselves in the foot with all 1,350 Pinnacle pilots. Add the fact a vacancy closes in less than 48 hours, that is even less movement that XJ pilots can be exposed to. Especially the junior XJ guys. Oops!

Yes, one vacancy missed is going to sway XJ pilots to vote for 9E's beautiful information leaking, JCBA sabotaging, staple wanting union leadership. How the hell do you know what was said in commitee meetings this last couple weeks anyways? It wasn't that long ago that it was stated 9E were losing those aircraft. Have they even met since then?

 

[Flyer1015]

Which brings us full circle to my post on the original intent of the LOA. Forgive me if I don't accept Higneys statement. That's only 9Es side of it, I'm sure that was what his union was implying of wanted with the LOA. That does not mean that was what XJ was signing onto. Think about it... The car salesmen says he'll throw in an extended warranty, but the finance guy doesn't write it into the deal. Do you dispute it? Does that reopen negotiations? Is that a cannon fired, or are you just defending yourself?

Higney is a rep who was physically sitting there. What more proof could you want? What you need to do is hold your reps accountable. Everything, in writing, both Letter V and Process/Protocol agreement, allow this change of sim date DOH to class date DOH. Why dispute the obvious?

 

[Flyer1015]

Yes, one vacancy missed is going to sway XJ pilots to vote for 9E's beautiful information leaking, JCBA sabotaging, staple wanting union leadership. How the hell do you know what was said in commitee meetings this last couple weeks anyways? It wasn't that long ago that it was stated 9E were losing those aircraft. Have they even met since then?

9E hasn't leaked any information. 9E has not sabotaged the JCBA. I recommend reading comprehension classes to your merger committee members, they are in dire need of it.