Degree - "NOT REQUIRED"

[pilotyip]

WWII, Vietnam

Most of the pilots who flew in WWII did not have degree; they performed feats in the air that showed they had extraordinary skill as pilots. How do you measure the pilot skill to hold a B-24 in formation at FL140 for nine hours? How do you measure flying 350 NM from your carrier using DR only and safely returns every time? How do you measure shooting down 5 enemy airplanes in 5 minute? These feats were performed by pilots without degrees. In Vietnam most of the helo drivers did not have degrees, does that mean they did not perform unbelievably in combat? My first PPC in the P-3 did not have a college degree, (former Navcad) he was one of the finest pilots I ever flew with. The degree has nothing to do wit flying an airplane.

 

[BarbrPole2theOM]

Those pilots that pay $100,000 for their degree then pursue their career are not the smartest, maybe the complete opposite. Wouldn't a smarter person pursue their regional airline job as fast as possible, maybe only getting their first two years done at a Community College, while building some flight time. Then getting on with a regional and slowly work on their degree while building quality time? Then you can be Captain and be finishing up you degree in time to apply to a major, while your buddy is just getting on with your regional as your first officer making nothing and trying to pay off his/her student loans. It's not about how smart your resume makes you look. It's about being qualified during the small windows of hiring at the majors. It's all about seniority.

 

[pilotyip]

Words of wisdom

barer pole has some great advice there.

 

[Tooslow]

Nope, aviators

 

[sleeve]

I was gonna write this long paragraph about how i have as much college under my belt as the guy with the degree who thinks he's better than me because I don't have one yet.. but then I thought F$^k it....I'd bet 10-1 that I can beat the shi.t out of him anyways.

 

[Tooslow]

I am just saying why someone would spend $100,000 when you can get same thing at some small university for $25,000. I spent 25 gs and there were guys in my class that had spent 100 gs. Same thing same place same time for 75 more?.

 

[BarbrPole2theOM]

If they discount you for getting that $25,000 degree, and say that the big name college means more, then the even better thing to do is to get the same degree that they paid $100,000 for and do it for the $25,000 - $30,000 range. Get your first two years done, get all your ratings, then finish up with Embry Riddle. They even give you credit for your flight time, and you don't have to pay for it. Gotta love it, $75,000 off. But then again, they are much better pilots then I am, so I better not rub it in.

 

[flyjen30]

Higher education should always be something to strive for. There is no reason why any of us should not want to raise the bar on our careers. Get out if you don't like it. Putting people down for doing the work involved in getting a degree (ie- Riddle) makes you sound bitter and small time.

 

[BarbrPole2theOM]

I am not trying to put people down. I spent the time and effort to get that degree, and I am proud of the work I did. The point I was trying to make is it does not make you a better pilot. A degree is an excellent way of broadening your horizon, however, if you use it as a way to discriminate against your fellow pilots and feel that they are lowering the bar, you did not learn much from college. Also by requiring it at the regional level, it slows down the process for those of us that love to fly and would rather be in an airplane, learning from real life experiance, then sitting in a classroom and learning about other subjects. By getting into the industry 2 years earlier, it also allows you two more years in your career which at current pay rates, could be $300,000 - $600,000.

 

[LR25]

Quote by Killjack.

" Riddle me this BATMAN" - why do three out of the four military flight schools require a four year degree?"



Next time you happen to meet an WWII veteran pilot, ask him what his major was in before he was sent off to flight school.

 

[Mugs]

"Okay fine, so I may not know what it's like to get wasted at a Frat house and go streaking through the Quad."

Come off it. If that's what you think college is all about, well then maybe its a very good thing you didn't waste anybody's time by attending one.

Fight it all you want, but the bottom line is that a college degree helps one get along in life. Not having one doesn't make you a bad person, and none of this has any bearing on flying skills in general. I just don't see how it could hurt the profession to require that airline pilots earn a degree first.

Doctors, Lawyers, TEACHERS...they all must complete a degree. Why shouldn't we?

I agree with you Herman.

The Florida and Arizona pilot mills can pump out all the non-college high school graduates that the industry will ever need. Why would any airline manager ever pay a decent wage / benefit package to someone with this background? There will always be plenty more eager beavers in the pipeline and where else would they go anyway? Welcome to the world of the indentured servant. But at least you might get a shot at 15 minutes of fame if FlightSafety puts your picture in one of its magazine ads. College? Who needs it.

 

[SYXDude]

" Riddle me this BATMAN" - why do three out of the four military flight schools require a four year degree? Why do the Majority of the "Major Airlines" require or prefer, applicants with Four year degrees?

It's all about supply and demand, man!! The only reason airlines require a degree is to cut down the number of resumes they have to go through.

Ding, ding, ding...we have a winner!

Why should HR go through 20,000 resumes for a pilot position when they can go through maybe 5000 instead? By requiring a degree, it's a filter to weed out people HR arbitrarily deems unfit or unworthy.

Ever wonder why SWA doesn't require a degree? They figured out that sometimes the best pilot for the job doesn't necessarily have the degree. And last time I checked, SWA was one of THE places pilots want to get hired.

So, I guess all those pilots at SWA without a degree should resign now.

Later

 

[VABB]

I am not a big conspiracy guy, but--- I have noticed in the last 4-5 years at the so called "Regional Airlines" that the majority of the pilots being hired only have a two year degree or none at all? While I do not believe it takes a "Rocket Scientist" to fly these jets, I do prefer a college graduate at the controls. It gives the career and the profession a more respectable position, and the ability to demand a professional pay scale. I believe that the Airlines are actually looking at hiring the two year degree or no degree applicant to fly their jets. This will allow them credibitly with the NMB during negotiations to throw out - well only 25% of the pilots at XYZ airline have a 4 year degree. So we should look at non professional payscale - and turn this into, forever, a 60,000 a year job. Just a thought - KJ

All you need is a GED and a check for $10,000.00 and that should get you in the door.

 

[pilotyip]

SYXdude right on

Smart companies to do not let a piece of paper, that has nothing to do with flying an airplane, stand in the way of hiring the right pilot.

 

[lawfly]

Degree-Not Required

I have undergraduate and graduate degrees and my own bias is in favor of a degree "requirement". I am not currently in a flying job, however. I'm posting to comment on licensing requirements. Some have commented on doctors, lawyers, teachers, etc. Degrees are required for licensure in those professions. The general eligibility requirements for the ATP, 61.153, do not currently include any formal (high school or college) education. Didn't the ATP eligibility requirements once include "high school or its equivalent"? Again, my own personal bias is in favor of degrees, and back when I was accumulating ratings and hours, a four year degree was required or strongly preferred by the majors and others. I am simply reminding all that the FARs, which govern pilot certification, do not require any diplomas or degrees. Obviously, higher education for pilots is a matter of personal choice and industry mandate or lack thereof.

 

[Daveman]

Hey, what about those "college educated" pro athletes. You know, they can barely form a sentence when being interviewed. Double negatives and such. Ya naw whut I'm seyn'. Gee, just think, if they only had an ATP they could be airline pilots. Howz about those PA announcements.

 

[FN FAL]

I am just saying why someone would spend $100,000 when you can get same thing at some small university for $25,000. I spent 25 gs and there were guys in my class that had spent 100 gs. Same thing same place same time for 75 more?

I hear you Tooslow! Bargain shopping can go a long way towards making the experience of an aviation career less painful...especially if you have to make use of a non-aviation related education to make ends meet after a furlough, losing interest in the career or a loss of medical.


I have been reading all the posts here and it is an interesting topic of conversation. I too feel that a degree does not make a pilot a better pilot...in general. However, I do feel the degree makes for a better employee.


I had an non-aviation related associate degree from way back in the 80's and when I stared out in aviation in the early 90's, I knew the associate would help. I am working on finishing my bachelor degree on-line now and I am having quite a lot of fun with it. It is hard work, interesting and it makes you think. Education is a lot more challenging and very different from when I went to school back in the 80's. Completing team assignments has been most challenging and at first, I did not like them. Now I cannot wait to meet my on-line classmates and see what is going to happen next. It is a great experience working on a project with people from all over, of different backgrounds, ethnicity and age. You learn a lot from them, and it is hard to get a team project done, having never actually met the team.


I chose a non-aviation related degree because I felt that I would pursue what interested me with more enthusiasm and I also felt that if I chose to seek a higher job in aviation, the degree would just be more a of means to an end. I also chose a degree that was non-aviation related, because I wanted to have other options available to me.


The employers asking for degrees are looking to find persons who have a well-rounded life experience, a higher education and a record of accomplishment showing ability to learn...they know that the degree is no guarantee of piloting skills.


Good luck to all of you, whether you have a degree or not! I hope that if you choose to get yourself enrolled in a continuing education program, you will have the patience and opportunity to see it through.

 

[Daveman]

"I have been reading all the posts here and it is an interesting topic of conversation. I too feel that a degree does not make a pilot a better pilot...in general. However, I do feel the degree makes for a better employee."
Quote from FNL.

I feel it's the PERSON that makes the better employee rather than a degree.
I've seen the under educated slob work 10 min.s over 'cause he took a long lunch.
Then I've had the big-wig on board braggin' how he "handled" business, as long as he was on a "private Jet".
I know you know what I'm sayin'.

 

[Mugs]

Smart companies to do not let a piece of paper, that has nothing to do with fklying an airplane, stand in the way of hiring the right pilot.

Smart pilots would never let that piece of paper from the FAA be the basket in which they throw all of their eggs into.

 

[pilotyip]

Mugs?

Smart pilots would never let that piece of paper from the FAA be the basket in which they throw all of their eggs into.

Please explain, did not copy your last

 

[FN FAL]

Smart pilots would never let that piece of paper from the FAA be the basket in which they throw all of their eggs into.

I got it! And I dropped out of the 12th grade...

 

[FN FAL]

"I have been reading all the posts here and it is an interesting topic of conversation. I too feel that a degree does not make a pilot a better pilot...in general. However, I do feel the degree makes for a better employee."
Quote from FNL.

I feel it's the PERSON that makes the better employee rather than a degree.
I've seen the under educated slob work 10 min.s over 'cause he took a long lunch.
Then I've had the big-wig on board braggin' how he "handled" business, as long as he was on a "private Jet".
I know you know what I'm sayin'.

It is, what it is.

 

[GVFlyer]

Degree or not degree, that is the question...

The trend is toward requiring a professional degree for a professional position - at least in the corporate / aircraft manufacturer's arena. I have never worked anywhere that didn't require a four-year degree for their pilots. Most corporate Human Resources directorates have a hard time understanding providing a six figure salary and benefits package to a high school grad.


GV

 

[Flyingdutchman]

The trend is toward requiring a professional degree for a professional position - at least in the corporate / aircraft manufacturer's arena. I have never worked anywhere that didn't require a four-year degree for their pilots. Most corporate Human Resources directorates have a hard time understanding providing a six figure salary and benefits package to a high school grad.


GV

They pay a type rated ATP not a 16 year old high school grad..

 

[Uncle Sparky]

They pay a type rated ATP not a 16 year old high school grad..

I know that you probably mean well but you're not helping the cause.

A 16 year old grad MIGHT BE desirable. They're called Prodigies!
Try 17-18 for the average age of graduation.

..........and it's witness......not whittness ..........WITLESS!

Correct me if I'm wrong but the College graduate and the High School laggard both take the same FAA written tests and checkrides don't they? While on the subject of prodigies, if I happen to be one and decide to CLEP all of my classes in order to obtain a degree, does that mean I should be paid less as well?

 

[FN FAL]

...if I happen to be one and decide to CLEP all of my classes in order to obtain a degree, does that mean I should be paid less as well?

No, but being a CLEPtomaniac could lead you to becoming introduced to the criminal justiced system. Then you'd be shaking hands with the sheriff.

 

[minitour]

So what I'm understanding is this:

Once I finish my training and start my CFI "carreer", I can go to PSU...get an interior design degree and right away I am more desireable to a Major Airline?

WTF does that have to do with flying an airplane?

-mini

 

[Uncle Sparky]

......better appreciation for cockpit ergonomics and awareness of seat
and carpet color conflicts........

 

[Uncle Sparky]

No, but being a CLEPtomaniac could lead you to becoming introduced to the criminal justiced system. Then you'd be shaking hands with the sheriff.

........not sure what those big words mean.......after I graduated high school I chose to enlist in the Marine Corps and forego college, therefore rendering my brain incapable of further development!

 

[minitour]

......better appreciation for cockpit ergonomics and awareness of seat
and carpet color conflicts........

LMAO

Thanks
minitour needed that

ACK
I just did the third person thing!

Pass me a beer.......

-mini