Defending Chautauqua

[mckpickle]

Here we go again!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Ya so whats your point? When our negotiators are told to go home because we are asking for more than CHQ or MESABA what the he1l do you expect. Just like the moron on the can in BTV who actually told me the CHQ DID raise the bar.

Learn where the bar is. Your looking up at it. And have made everyone elses job harder.

 

[low-key]

I just bought a big wheel of cheese to go with all this WHINE

 

[mckpickle]

I just bought a big wheel of cheese to go with all this WHINE

Ya well with what they are going to be paying all the regionals its going to be government cheese.

 

[low-key]

there was an FO about a year and a half ago on first year pay at a regional that did infact qualify for government cheese

 

[kepjet]

Ya so whats your point? When our negotiators are told to go home because we are asking for more than CHQ or MESABA what the he1l do you expect. Just like the moron on the can in BTV who actually told me the CHQ DID raise the bar.

Learn where the bar is. Your looking up at it. And have made everyone elses job harder.

You were talking to another guy sitting on the can? Gross!!!

Seriously, I hope you do get more than us, a lot more. Also, I hope that Express Jet does not try to start up an alter-ego carrier to "do the flying that can't be done on the present certificate" (Yeah, we heard that one before w/ Republic). That is the one which cost us in compensation because every time pay came up, so did Republic. How soon people forget the Republic mess.

I wouldn't put it past anyone's management to try this crap.

As for raising this "bar", we did in nearly all areas of our agreement. I agree that we should be getting more money, but I did not vote on our agreement based on compensation alone. We did get a significant raise AND scoped an alter-ego carrier. I am 100 percent willing to sacrafice a little compensation for job security!

On a lighter note, did you have a chance to try Junior's pizza (under the overpass from the Hampton Inn in BTV)? I would sugggest this place or a little Irish bar in Winooski for a Long Trail lager (van drivers know where it is) . Either way, stop talking to guys sitting on the can! They're just talking sh!t. Sorry, couldn't resist.

 

[T-Bird]

If there's anyone on here from the summer of 2001 you would aknowledge that we did soundly reject the first TA that was proposed to us. If I remember right it was pretty dang close to the pay we got with this new LOA, if not better, but it had a ton of loopholes in it that people weren't ready to accept. Why it took over 2 years to get another TA signed is a whole other story.

 

[Sam Fisher]

McPickle is right. Our NC was sent home by the NMB after management declined to respond to our last compensation proposal. We are down to Scope and Compensation. The very fact that Mesa and CHQ accepted rates as low as they did is why the NMB will be reluctant to let us go out over trying to get Comair rates. Mesa's wonderful contract was what started the tumble southward...with ACA and ARW. Yay. Nothing like making $32k/year as a 5th year FO. Woo hoo.

Sam

 

[Air Biscuit]

You were talking to another guy sitting on the can? Gross!!!

Seriously, I hope you do get more than us, a lot more. Also, I hope that Express Jet does not try to start up an alter-ego carrier to "do the flying that can't be done on the present certificate" (Yeah, we heard that one before w/ Republic). That is the one which cost us in compensation because every time pay came up, so did Republic. How soon people forget the Republic mess.

I wouldn't put it past anyone's management to try this crap.

As for raising this "bar", we did in nearly all areas of our agreement. I agree that we should be getting more money, but I did not vote on our agreement based on compensation alone. We did get a significant raise AND scoped an alter-ego carrier. I am 100 percent willing to sacrafice a little compensation for job security!

I couldn't give a rat's @ss about job security. Who in the he!! cares when you're being paid less than a freaking bus driver. You boys better wake up and realize that just because you love to fly doesn't mean you should do it for nothing and make your family suffer for it. Let them threaten to give away flying. It wouldn't bother me one iota. The fight at X-jet has just begun.

 

[mckpickle]

I couldn't give a rat's @ss about job security. Who in the he!! cares when you're being paid less than a freaking bus driver. You boys better wake up and realize that just because you love to fly doesn't mean you should do it for nothing and make your family suffer for it. Let them threaten to give away flying. It wouldn't bother me one iota. The fight at X-jet has just begun.

They can threaten to take the CAL flying all they want but CAL will be history like Eastern and TWA if we strike. We have more flights than they do!!!!! They put all their eggs in one basket and they are hosed if we walk.


Of course Mesa and CHQ would have been done too but who stood up there?

 

[kepjet]

I couldn't give a rat's @ss about job security. Who in the he!! cares when you're being paid less than a freaking bus driver. You boys better wake up and realize that just because you love to fly doesn't mean you should do it for nothing and make your family suffer for it. Let them threaten to give away flying. It wouldn't bother me one iota. The fight at X-jet has just begun.

Mr. Biscuit,

It's easy to say you don't care about job security but deep down inside you know you do, or at least would if XJET said they were starting another airline which would start the shift of flying from one group to another. That is what we were faced with. I hope you never have that happen to you guys. We gave up a sh1tload to get rid of Republic and still got a decent (not great)contract. Also, we are familiar with having a P.O.S. Mesa contract thrown in our faces duing negotiations. We did a helluva lot better than Mesa did. I also hope you do a helluva lot better than us.

Once again, I hope you guys get the deal you want.

Just a question, not meant to flame or anything, but what else is important to your pilot group other than compensation? Days off, junior manning, per diem, vacation/sick time, etc.? How much would you be willing to give on the above mentioned for better pay? Once again, no flame meant, I'm just curious.

 

[Sam Fisher]

Just a question, not meant to flame or anything, but what else is important to your pilot group other than compensation? Days off, junior manning, per diem, vacation/sick time, etc.? How much would you be willing to give on the above mentioned for better pay? Once again, no flame meant, I'm just curious.

Vacation - Our contract has one of, if not THE, best vacation provisions in the "regional industry." We can turn 7 days of vacation into as much as 24 straight days off (more if you bid right), while maintaining a 75 hour guarantee. Any trip touching a 7 day block of vacation gets dropped, and we maintain guarantee. So if you have a nice chunk of days off before and after those trips that drop, you're doing well for vacation.

Junior Manning - Yes, we have it, but you must be "available" for it.

"CA Smith, we are junior manning you."

"Sorry, I am unavailable."

Furthermore, in the new contract, if you are a reserve pilot and have your day off rolled, you will get 150% for the day that you work plus your day off restored. Not too shabby.

Per Diem - Still being negotiated, along with pay and scope. I anticipate that we won't see less than Comair, just as I anticipate not seeing less than Comair on days off or pay rates.

Days Off - 12 days off in the new contract for lineholders and currently still fighting for 12 days off for reserves.

Sick Bank - 5 hours per month put into a bank up to 640 hours. An additional 120 hours can be banked for catastrophic circumstances.

Scheduling - More or less done apparently. What I have been told at our LEC meetings has really impressed me. Significant improvements, especially in the area of reserve scheduling and trip trading/line improvement. I can't wait to read the whole section.

Retirement - New Retirement section is done but we have yet to see it. Given that our 401k match was already industry leading, and that they've told us they've restructured our match so that we have a "b fund" of sorts, I'm excited to see the improvements.

There is a lot more to list, but in short, these are all things that are already done and TA'd. All that is left is pay, scope, and per diem. I have faith, trust, and confidence in both my NC and our pilot group that we will be the best paid pilots flying 50 seat jets. Period.

As I said above, the Mesa and CHQ pilots did zero to further anyone else's chances of improving their lifestyle and W-2's. They bought growth and the binding of the holding company to their contract. I expect to see you guys complain about your contract in about 3 years when the growth stops.

Sam

 

[RegionalFA]

I expect to see you guys complain about your contract in about 3 years when the growth stops.

Sam [/B]

Good thing that's when the contract is up for renegotiations.

 

[AirBill]

There is a lot more to list, but in short, these are all things that are already done and TA'd. All that is left is pay, scope, and per diem. I have faith, trust, and confidence in both my NC and our pilot group that we will be the best paid pilots flying 50 seat jets. Period.

That's fine and dandy, but talk to me later when the thing's actually signed. I just have to say that those three open items are some pretty big ones. That's like saying, "The road's almost built; we just have to lay the concrete."

We got some major improvements in our QOL issues, but all anyone cares about is the money. Kudos to you guys if you are able to make your paychecks fatter, but watch out for the old crows on this board if you don't improve it enough for their liking.

 

[Sam Fisher]

Good thing that's when the contract is up for renegotiations.

That is an optomistic view at best and naive view at worst.

Contracts typically take 2 years to negotiate. We are almost 24 months into ours over at XJT. Just because it is "up for renegotiation" doesn't mean that your company management has any incentive to want to get a deal anytime soon. As I said, lets see what happens when the growth stops. Don't think you'll have 5 year FO's? I will put money on it that you do. But the tough part is that you guys only have a 4 year FO scale (but someone please correct me if I'm wrong).

Sam

 

[RegionalFA]

That is an optomistic view at best and naive view at worst.

Contracts typically take 2 years to negotiate. We are almost 24 months into ours over at XJT. Just because it is "up for renegotiation" doesn't mean that your company management has any incentive to want to get a deal anytime soon. As I said, lets see what happens when the growth stops. Don't think you'll have 5 year FO's? I will put money on it that you do. But the tough part is that you guys only have a 4 year FO scale (but someone please correct me if I'm wrong).

Sam

Ya think? Gee, I always thought we signed new contracts the day they end.

Right.

But, my guess is that no one will like their contract when it's up. G'luck on yours. CHQ is overall content with what they got considering the circumstances. THey improved on the items that impact their lives, recieved pay increases and managed to deal with the large obstacle that was staring them in the face at the time. Sure, everyone would love more money... who wouldn't.

Right now they raised their bar. Not all situations allow for large leaps -- not everyone is in a position to risk falling off the cliff. Comair worked out... if CHQ guys had pushed it they would likely not have faired so well. They likely would have found themselves on the street. That's not gonna help anyone either.

Everything else I want to say has already been said. Most of the contracts that you're comparing CHQ's to were negotiated prior to 9-11 in a much more favorable industry. To not believe that that has an impact on what can be accomplished is naive at best and blind at worst. They can only ask you to step back so far -- they can block progress a lot more easily.

In all honesty, g'luck with your negotiations. I hope you guys get everything you want... and everything you deserve.