Defending Chautauqua

[071qhc]

As a Chautauqua captain, I think there is quite a bit of hypocrisy on this message board. First of all, the name-calling which accompanied many of the Delta RFP responses was completely un-called for. The same people who hold us at CHQ in such disdain are the same ones singing the praises of Southwest, Jetblue, Airtran, etc. We at CHQ have a fair contract that places us (according to OUR union officials), at number three overall in the regional sector, behind Comair and Horizon, as far as compensation goes. I said OVERALL, meaning you have to look at the average pay scale across the WHOLE contract, covering ALL positions and aircraft types. Number three is not a bad postion to be in, given the environment. Also, it is a SHORT-TERM contract and CHQ will again be in negotiations in about 3 years. Also, not to mention NO junior manning, a 75 hour guarantee (correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't Comair have a 70 hour guarantee?). So, the same people who praise the low-cost majors and would love to fly for them,( realizing that the airline industry is Price-driven), attack us for our inherent lower COST-STRUCTURE (ERJ's are less expensive than CRJ's), even though, as I said, we are fairly compensated. Furthermore, Comair and ASA pilots had no say in the matter when mother Delta decided to purchase them. Honestly, do you think that an INDEPENDENT, Comair would have survived an almost 3 month strike? IF Comair were an independent contractor at the time of the strike, such as us at CHQ, or SkyWest, etc, that they alone could have sustained those million dollar losses without the PRE-9/11, BILLION dollar pockets of Delta, to absorb those losses? Anyone who is HONEST with themselves will realize that they would not. Furthermore if that strike had been resolved on september 12, 2001, would they have gotten those industry leading rates? ABSOLUTELY NOT!!! Also, are the same people who attack us going to attack DALPA when they take their pay cut? Did these same people attack the American pilots when they voted to accept their pay cut? So you see, you can't have it both ways. You can't praise Jetblue and Southwest (Who have ALWAYS had traditionally lower costs, including labor costs), and then attack us for those same lower costs (with fair pay). This industry is a business, designed to make money. The majors have had to learn the hard way that cost-structure matters. Who would have thought in the pre-dotcom burst, pre-recession, pre-9/11 late 90's and early 2000's, that the entire aviation industry would now be trying to emulate SOUTHWEST? I mean, they were always well respected for their business model and being the happy, scrappy little airline, but NOW, THEY are the standard bearer, because this industry now realizes that they are all in business to make money. Now, I'd appreciate grown-up responses to this post. Let's please not have a repeat of that other name-calling, hate filled Delta RFP thread, I'd really like to believe that we are all above that. Maybe we can all see that we really are all in a big fraternity of people who love to fly.

 

[Ivan Yankenoff]

where to begin?

Also, it is a SHORT-TERM contract

Four years is not short term. It is the average. 24-36 months is short term. A child can be conceived, born, learn to walk and talk in three years.

Also, not to mention NO junior manning

I've said before that if you do get JM'd and don't want to be it's your own fault.

(ERJ's are less expensive than CRJ's),

More the reason that your pay rates should be above Comairs.

Honestly, do you think that an INDEPENDENT, Comair would have survived an almost 3 month strike?

Comair management would have had to give in to ALPA because it wouldn't have had the resources to continue. You are assuming that if Comair was independent they would have had a 3 month strike. Flawed logic.

 

[OldManPilot]

where to begin?




Four years is not short term. It is the average. 24-36 months is short term. A child can be conceived, born, learn to walk and talk in three years.

Learn to read before you answer.. 3 yr. contract, not 4, but 3. but negotiations can begin 6 mo. prior to that.

 

[Ivan Yankenoff]

Contract term is 48 months. They begin negotiating in three years. So who's the one who can't educate themselves prior to responding.

 

[Mike man]

Well said 071qhc.

If Delta had not bought Comair or ASA we would not be having this discussion.

Last time I checked this isn't Russia. It is the USA and a free market economy. If Delta wants to survive in the long run they are going to need RJ's and people to fly them. And it looks to me like Delta has realized that.

 

[MetroSheriff]

but negotiations can begin 6 mo. prior to that.

I am sure management will be in a real hurry to open Section 6 6 months early.

 

[TWAER]

I'm sure they will.

 

[Lc130driver]

You can make all the excuses in the world why you voted in such a crappy contract. The fact is Mesa and chautauqua and Mesaba made it harder for any one else in the business to raise the bar. I don't know about anybody else, but I don't want to make around 50 or 60,000 a year. I am sure happy you are so proud to take over somebody else job.

I can't guarantee if express jet will raise the bar, but I will vote no on the first TA(unless it gives everything I want) but that is unlikely, so I don't have to worry about that.
We as a workforce has to work together to fix this problem. You will always have some group(mesa, chautauqua) or some other small piece of sh!t pilot group wanting to make 30,000-40000 a year crappy job.
We have to educate the people coming up in the ranks to not except a job with a company like mesa or chautauqua or any other piece of sh!t company.

Oh by the way Chautauqua is not even in the top three regionals. ExpressJet(COEX), Comair, and Eagle are the top three, actualy XJT is a major by definition, so I will guess ASA would be next inline.

LC130driver

 

[071qhc]

Wow, here we go with the profanity again, and those of you with negative comments about my post, apparently you did not read it very closely. First of all, I said we are number three in regional airline compensation, according to figures released by OUR Teamsters officials, (NOT the number three regional airline in size as someone mistakingly posted), when you look at the average pay scale over the ENTIRE contract, for all positions and aircraft types. Of course you can do your alpa.org "study" of one position and seniority year and come up with whatever numbers you want, but that is being very selective. You must look at the WHOLE contract. Second to those who say that the fact that ERJ's are less expensive than CRJ's means we should be making more than Comair; by that logic, a Southwest 737 captain should make more than a Delta 737 captain because Southwest's aircraft are cheaper to operate. Is that logical, NO because cheaper to operate means you pay your employees fairly then pass the savings onto your customers if you are a stand alone carrier like Southwest or Jetblue, or to your major partners if you are an independent carrier like CHQ. And to Lc130driver (and anyone else who feels the need to curse CHQ out), your lack of ability to make a point without resorting to profanity and cursing, shows your lack of maturity. It's so easy to hide behind your anonymity and hurl insults, isn't it? Please READ my first post and form reasoned, logical replies, based on thought, and not on anger. And try to respond to the ENTIRE post, because I made many points that the name-callers conveniently "forgot" to address. Don't try to be a lawyer and pick out one sentence you disagree with and try to rip it to shreads. And to WALPAPER, my source for my salary claims is The International Brotherhood of Teamsters, my union, who knows where your claims about those airlines that make more than us comes from? AND once again look at the average of the ENTIRE pay package over the WHOLE contract for ALL aircraft types and seniority, don't pick and choose, or nit-pick to try and make your case. And IVAN YANKENOFF, you are assuming that if Comair had been independent during the strike, that management would have caved in sooner and given the pilots the same pay scales they ended up with, that's highly doubtful, because they would not have had those deep Delta pockets to back them up. ALSO, with all this talk on these boards, I hope that COEX and ASA top Comair in their next contracts or I guess there will be name calling and insults hurled at them too, just like the insults are now being hurled at Mesaba. I for one have NOTHING against ANY pilot or airline, and I realize that each pilot group must evaluate their own situation, so lighten up folks. It's also obvious that this whole regional section of "Flightinfo.com", has become pretty useless from an info gathering and sharing perspective. It's just insult after insult, with emotion and anger, and not much thought. Also, it's pretty obvious that everyone on this board has their mind made up about every other airline that they "hate". I for one, really do hope that we all can get along and be civil toward each other, even in this anonymous format. Needless to say, you are all welcome in my jumpseat anytime. With that said, I'm outta here, you guys can fight amongst yourselves (but hopefully you won't fight, and instead, have reasoned, logical DISCUSSIONS). But if you do choose to reply, please read and think before you launch into a fit of cursing and profanity. Take care, and God bless us all.

 

[DrinkSweetTea]

I dont think CHQ needs defending. CHQ is a great company, treats its people well, people are great to work with, and contract is good (all things considered). Comair has gotten alot of the growth for DL recently, and DL now gave some growth to the other players. These are all quality regionals and I think quality played in to their decision not just cost. If you dont like CHQ dont work there.

 

[Yeah]

You have to be crazy to think a CHQ pilot could make more than an ACA pilot. Wow!!!

 

[BoilerUP]

By looking the "whole" contract, you allow for subjectivivity. Anyone can make numbers say what they want them to. By looking at one specific item, you get exact comparisons. The numbers don't lie. Your contract is sub-par to those before you.

You are absolutely correct - the numbers don't lie. If a pilot at company A makes $70/hr as a 3 year 50 seat RJ captain and a pilot at company B makes $60/hr as a 3 year 50 seat RJ captain, one could say company B lowered the bar compared to company A in hourly compensation.

HOWEVER...those numbers don't take into account monthly guarantee, average monthly line, quality of life, or other "soft" money. Looking at the hourly compensation for a given longevity and juding a contract "crappy" based simply upon that number is misleading at best and ignorant at worst.

 

[lazy8s]

You Ladies need to quit all your crying. "I lowered the bar, I raised the bar......Blah,blah, blah!!" Is the Bar open, then let's go and quit yer bitchin'

Lazy8s

 

[General Lee]

Mike Oxlong,

What is up with this statement?


"If Delta wants to survive in the long run they are going to need RJ's and people to fly them. And it looks to me like Delta has realized that."


A lot of people, including Micheal Boyd, would disagree with you on that one.....

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[jjetpilot]

I BET MGT IS LOVING THIS THREAD........

If we are divided we will fall. EVERY regional airline when it comes to bargaining time has to BITE the bullet and fight what is right.

NO ONE SHOULD TAKE A CRAPPY CONTRACT.......no excuses...

If we ALL did that then we would make this a better career than what it looks like long-term now. Most of us here are in this thing for the longhaul. Why make it WORSE as our career matures.

 

[skiddriver]

I know one thing you Chautauqua guys need to change in your contract. A couple of months ago I was heading south out of DCA and heard a Chautauqua dispatcher call one of your planes and divert them to a field short of their destination because the captain was going to exceed 16 hours of duty and violate the current interpretation of the FAA duty time limits. Suprisingly, the captain tried to talk the dispatcher into exceeding the legal limit, over Atlanta radio, so they could proceed to their scheduled destination.

Our duty limits at Comair are 13.5 scheduled (including scheduling changes), 14.5 actual, and 15.5 if the crew agrees to it (as in they want to get home). Your captain sounded tired as heck on the radio, and you need to get some reasonable duty limits in your contract.

 

[Corbon]

You can make all the excuses in the world why you voted in such a crappy contract. The fact is Mesa and chautauqua and Mesaba made it harder for any one else in the business to raise the bar. I don't know about anybody else, but I don't want to make around 50 or 60,000 a year. I am sure happy you are so proud to take over somebody else job.

I can't guarantee if express jet will raise the bar, but I will vote no on the first TA(unless it gives everything I want) but that is unlikely, so I don't have to worry about that.
We as a workforce has to work together to fix this problem. You will always have some group(mesa, chautauqua) or some other small piece of sh!t pilot group wanting to make 30,000-40000 a year crappy job.
We have to educate the people coming up in the ranks to not except a job with a company like mesa or chautauqua or any other piece of sh!t company.

Please tell me English isn't your first language. I'll bet the COEX guys are proud to have you as their spokesperson. Did you actually write this post, look at it and say "this looks good"? Do you even work for COEX or are you just a COEX wannabe? Maybe you got the ERJ download for your FlightSim and ordered a hat and some captain bars from Sportys to wear to school, I don't really know. Either way, I will give you a point for spelling "Chautauqua" correctly. Overall, a very classy, well written post. Any passengers viewing this must just be elated to know that they may someday have a pilot with the grammer skills of a retarded 4th grader. And thats being generous. Passenger confidence indeed!
In the future, if you are going to insult us, please get someone who has somewhat of a grasp of the English language to proofread it first so we don't have to do the gibberish to English translation. Thank you.

Sincerely,
A piece of sh!t pilot

 

[Jeepman]

You Ladies need to quit all your crying. "I lowered the bar, I raised the bar......Blah,blah, blah!!" Is the Bar open, then let's go and quit yer bitchin'

Lazy8s

I SECOND THAT MOTION & I'LL HAVE A RUM & COKE!!!

B.T.W. I just moved the bar sideways to let in some hotties! Opps! I hijacked this thread!

 

[jetflyer]

Just wanted to clear something up:

Comair does have a 75 hr min guarantee

Lineholders at Comair according to the contract will have lines made between 82 and 93 hours.

So no lineholder at Comair will ever make less than 82 hours, unless he drops trips on purpose.

Plus ALWAYS VOTE NO TO THE FIRST CONTRACT.

Jet

 

[mckpickle]

We're Number 3, We're Number 3!!!!!!!!!!!


Nothing like striving to be the 3rd best.