Deathtrap MU-2 BANNED

[Swass]

Nope. You need about 932 hrs to make that statement.

 

[agpilot34]

About 800 hrs, is that enough?

Yup, that's plenty for me. Just makin' sure you weren't another one of the armchair experts that always seem to chime in discussions like this one, giving their pearls of wisdom when they've never even set in the d@mn thing, much less flown it.

 

[siucavflight]

Yup, that's plenty for me. Just makin' sure you weren't another one of the armchair experts that always seem to chime in discussions like this one, giving their pearls of wisdom when they've never even set in the d@mn thing, much less flown it.

Like I said, the plane is a handful if the engine quits, but with the right kind of training, and a lot of vigilance it is not a death sentence.

 

[Lead Sled]

Like I said, the plane is a handful if the engine quits, but with the right kind of training, and a lot of vigilance it is not a death sentence.

Couldn't that be said of nearly every twin-engine in the fleet?

LS

 

[Flysher]

Im asking this because i seriously dont know, why is the MU2 different in its engine out procedures, and what does a pilot do procedure wise to correct for a failed engine?

 

[ACT700]

Yup, that's plenty for me. Just makin' sure you weren't another one of the armchair experts that always seem to chime in discussions like this one, giving their pearls of wisdom when they've never even set in the d@mn thing, much less flown it.

That would be Mr. Cadwalader.
From what I understand, he's an expert witness and has testified in court as an expert witness!

Hey, Cadwalader, or whatever your name is, my son's got more time in the MU2 than you do. And that's hands-on, sticktime, not just having sat in one.

 

[Lead Sled]

Im asking this because i seriously dont know, why is the MU2 different in its engine out procedures, and what does a pilot do procedure wise to correct for a failed engine?

You ask a legitimate question and it deserves an answer. The MU-2 has been a controversial airplane from almost day one. I flew the MU-2B-60 (Marquise) single-pilot for 3 years for an air ambulance outfit. I liked the airplane, but it definitely demands a professional approach and proper initial and recurrent training. Its wing loading gives it flight characteristics more akin to a turbojet aircraft than a propeller-driven aircraft and it demands to be flown like a jet.

These “quirks” aren’t dangerous, but they need to be fully understood and considered in the day-to-day operation of the aircraft. For example, in practically every other propeller-driven aircraft you go for "blue line" in the event of an engine failure. In the MU-2 you fly a profile and clean up the aircraft sequentially as you accelerate - just as you would in a jet. If you attempt to handle an engine failure in the MU-2 they way you were taught in a King Air or light twin and you'll turn yourself into a lawn dart. Period.

The MU-2 doesn’t handle ice particularly well, but neither do a lot of other airplanes. As I remember, it did have a minimum recommended ice speed of 160 TIAS. The minimum recommended speed in a King Air is 140 KIAS (As I remember, but it’s been a long time.) Let an MU-2 (or King Air) get slow while you’re packing ice and you will probably end up creating some memories for yourself. Keep the speed up and you'll have no problems.

As far as the safety record goes, a lot of it has to do with their low price on the used market. In years past, wealthy individuals could choose between a new single, used light twin, or an early MU-2. Let's see, a 170 knot Bonanza, a 200 knot twin or a 270+ knot MU-2 for the same price. Aircraft salesmen would tout turbine reliability and safety and make the sale. The insurance companies would ask for proper training, but there were enough guys out there that would fly without insurance and with out anything more than a rudimentary checkout. The airplane ate those kind of pilots for lunch. Nowadays, it’s the check hauling and freight outfits that have discovered the virtues of the MU-2. Fortunately, these are also the very same companies that are so well known for their thorough and extensive initial and recurrent training programs - yeah right.

I believe that the airplane is a good one, you absolutely need to get proper training and fly it according to the AFM. The Marquise had a 10% larger cabin, was 10% faster and burned 10% less fuel than the KA200. In order to get that kind of performance, Mitsubishi had to use a lot of aeronautical tricks. After all, the total wing area isn't that much greater than say a Cessna 210. As I remember, it had the same wing loading as the T-38, the B-727, and a Learjet. You have to fly it as you would any other highly wing loaded aircraft, a King Air it ain't.

It takes a little to get used to flying a wing with spoilers instead of ailerons; but once you do it handles pretty nice - no adverse aileron yaw since there are no ailerons. The spoilers induce roll by destroying lift as opposed to creating it. Control "feel" is created by springs attached to the system and is constant throughout the aircraft speed range. The spoilers are very effective at approach speeds; but, as you would imagine, they are more effective at higher speeds. From a pilot's point of view, it just means that, at approach speeds, you need more control movement to get the same response from the airplane that you would at cruise speed.

Finally, proper trim is very critical in the MU-2, especially when operating on a single engine. The trim ailerons are employed to keep the wings level without having a spoiler raised. This keeps the wing doing what it was designed to do - fly. You use the autopilot a lot in the MU-2. It's important to monitor the control wheel position frequently and adjust the trim as necessary during flight to make sure that it's level - indicating that the spoilers are flush. Other wise you're going to be cruising around with a spoiler up and a resultant loss of lift. (That’s why you don’t bank an MU-2 into the dead engine – you want to keep those spoilers down and the wing doing its thing.) These “quirks” don’t make it dangerous, just different. The differences, if not understood, are dangerous. An experienced MU-2 old timer told me that flying an MU-2 was like having a pet Doberman…

“You’ll really like it, and it will nuzzle you and eat out of your hand, but don’t do anything stupid around it or it will bite you.”

But that’s true in any airplane.

The MU-2 doesn't stand alone in this regard, other airplanes come to mind. I can remember, as a young kid back in the mid-1960’s, watching the smoke rise from the airport - a new United 727 had just landed short and burst into flames. Many people were killed in that accident. The captain, a highly experienced airline and military pilot, had misjudged the spool-up time of the engines. People died. That wasn't the only 727 lost under those particular circumstances. There were other examples where good, competent, experienced pilots weren't adequately trained when they transitioned into the new type. Coming from the big piston Douglas and Boeing transports they were used to having the practically instantaneous effect of power when they moved the throttles. They forgot about the response lag of turbine engines and many people died. Was it the airplane’s fault that people died? Was it the fault of the engines? Personally, I believe that it was a training issue. The crews that were flying those early jets weren't adequately trained. Sure they had all of the boxes check off on their training record, but like I said in an other threads - "what is legal isn't always safe."

LS

 

[Flysher]

Hey Lead Sled thanks for the post. It was informative and an interesting read.

I have seen MU-2s when I used to fly out of PHL and I never realized that it was such a fast airplane. I would almost like to fly one someday, provided I could find a place that would train me properly.

Flysh'

 

[siucavflight]

hey lead nice post, and dead on.

 

[ACT700]

Sled,

overall-acurate, except:

Icing: min speed 180; and it does handle ice fairly well-better than 400 Cessnas, in my opinion. But like any a/c, staying ahead and having a way out is always a good idea.
The icing related accidents, from what I can make out of the reports, were pilots forgetting to turn on anti-ice stuff.

Training: I'm sure there are outfits out there that want you to "have read the manual over the weekend to do a checkride by tuesday"!
Be careful about generelizing.

That's like me saying all asian carriers are unsafe.