Dead Horse....Where is my bat!!!!

[Stifler's Mom]

Well, with the way the industry has spiraled down the ********************ter over the last 5 years, I vote to replace "hats" with "paper bags" over our heads instead.

 

[bizicmo]

People can't honestly believe that if everyone dressed to the 9's that there would be pay raises for everyone.

 

[bizicmo]

If you do please continue with this stupid discussion.

 

[benjakes]

Kero,

I believe you are taking the high ground, and are right. If a pilot respects himself, and his profession, the profession has a better chance of succeeding.
Would you see a dentist with missing teeth?

 

[SERPICO]

I see some valid points raised here, but some of you peeps are just to full of yourself.
My company (a regional) has a no tie policy when the mercury hits 90F and I take it off, we don't have friggin' APU's or air-con for that matter.
Alot of us can't afford to buy lunch at Airports.
I bet half you tools complaining are the guys we see on your flightdeck as we walk past in the terminal and see your dunkin' donuts coffee cup on top of the panel and your face stuffed with a doughnut.
I always keep my appearance sharp as I don't want my pax to feel uneasy. This can be done without a tie and is justified when you are sweating your ass off.
Dammit, we don't have pretty little hats either!!!
Background: mid thirties, no college but several years of boarding school which started my dislike for ties. Bush flying back ground, helo & airplane.
Got everyjob I have applied for so far, enjoy my life and am married to a hot Babe.

 

[bizicmo]

I don't think that's a correct analogy.
Would you get into a plane with a well dressed pilot who just crashed his car into a fence?
Or bike, boat, another plane, your choice.
I am not saying he is wrong, I'm just sick of hearing it.
He is the same person that sits in the crewroom and complains about the pay, the work rules, vacation and anything else possible.
When you ask him what should we do to make it better he will say get better pay, get better work rules, get better vacation.
People show up to work not in uniform, out of shape(overweight), with 70's style mustaches, with non louis vuitton(might be wrong spelling, don't own it) baggage or lunch sack. Thanks for pointing it out. Can't believe I didn't notice it.

 

[bizicmo]

About the hats.
Have you noticed that some people just don't look good with it on, in particular me.
I can honestly say I look more respectable without it.

 

[bizicmo]

Yes, I carry a brown paper bag to work with my lunch in it.
And I'm proud I don't eat that crap that they sell in the airport.

 

[Caveman]

What's wrong with wearing your ID? I need it to get on ground transportation, I need it to get through security, I need it to show the gate agent and I need it to present to the Captain. After all that I put it away, but while I'm moving through all that I usually just keep it around my neck. What's the big deal?

 

[81Horse]

Jeebuz.

Deck Chairs. The Titanic.

 

[gto2002]

I love not having to wear the monkey suit while at my job. Loading your own cargo with a monkey suit on makes no sense anyway.

 

[CA1900]

Saw a gal in CLE from Commutair, walking around with a purse backpack and carrying a vinyl lunch bag going out towards the exit. Very unprofessional and dumb looking.

I think I know who you're talking about, and I agree -- the little purse-backpacks look ridiculous, in or out of uniform.

But I'm going to have to disagree about the lunch coolers. The crap they call "food" in the Cleveland Airport is disgusting. Let's see, what are my options on my three-hour sit?

• Burger King uke:
• The Great American (?) Bagel ... mmm, tear open another sack of chili, boys.
• A personal pan pizza, at over 750 calories
• The worst Chinese ever, if I go to Terminal C
• The Tequileria or the Sports Bar -- too expensive, and I can't really sit there in uniform

....and that's really about it. The choices are just abysmal, the food is bland and unhealthy, and the service is terrible at most of these places. I bring a cooler, too -- partly to save money, but mainly to save my health and sanity. There's a reason a lot of pilots get overweight, myself included. It's a real challenge eating healthfully on the road.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

About the hats.
Have you noticed that some people just don't look good with it on, in particular me.
I can honestly say I look more respectable without it.

This is pretty weak. The only arguement weaker than this is "When they pay me more, I'll wear the uniform properly..."

I love not having to wear the monkey suit while at my job. Loading your own cargo with a monkey suit on makes no sense anyway.

Loading your own cargo makes no sense....

 

[aspire]

maybe this is mostly indicative of the people that we are, or work with, or both. not everyone flying is of the military officer or even college graduate background.

 

[scar1900]

I wonder if the slobby look came before or after the payscale drop?

Guess it's a case of chicken and the egg. My money's on slobs came after concessions, though.

 

[WickedPissa]

I normally would not do this, but I cannot stand it!!

6-21-06 CLT, C Concouse, 5 ish PM

To the express Captain walking down the concouse in uniform complete with hat(a nice touch when you read what follows), with the backcountry quality backpack fully installed across his back slouched over like a cave man from the weight.............You have got to be the most unprofessional mess that I have ever seen walking along in a crowded airport!!

I should know, I fly long haul freight and we pride ourselves on being an unprofessional mess!

I have voiced opinions before on the subject, out of boredom mostly on layovers....but until yesterday I never really came across one that looked so silly and out of place as this guy did. I mean it was bad, passengers (and there were hundreds at that time of day) were laughing, pointing and shaking their head!!

I kid you not, the guy was a living breathing walking Ed Bundy with a pilot uniform! I heard the passenger beside me say and I quote "Man, I am glad that moron was not my pilot, he looks like a refugee from some school for the mentally challenged"

I know this has been beat to death, but the passenger reaction to this was very very obvious.

Disclaimer: I do not work for any of the carriers based in CLT or that fly through there and I really could not care less if he was in approved uniform etc....but this guy looked really really stupid. He looked like he should be earning minimum wage at a Fast Food restaurant......which might be a reason so many people are starting to view professional pilots in that way!

Talk among yourselves.........

It might be the same slob that buys a few whoppers at the beginning of a 4 day trip, and pulls one out of his bag 4 days later and eats it old and cold. He also did that with hot dogs. He had a refill cup in that bag too for free refills. Was he eating a soft pretzel from Aunt Annie's(or whatever it is called)? What a gross mess.

 

[gearjockey]

I Propose a new flight bag sticker that reads "I posted on flightinfo.com today". That way we'd know that all these uniform transgressors were getting the word. Personal confrontation could lead to further uniform violations (tie-pulling, biotch-slapping, hats-a-flying).

 

[Ride Orange]

I Propose a new flight bag sticker that reads "I posted on flightinfo.com today". That way we'd know that all these uniform transgressors were getting the word. Personal confrontation could lead to further uniform violations (tie-pulling, biotch-slapping, hats-a-flying).

I think confronting the individual is the best way to go. Not to verbally assault them, but just to let them know people notice they look like an @ss bag. If they can walk freely through the airport with pilot after pilot passing them not saying a word, they will assume they are doing no wrong. If I knew someone was going to ask me where my hat was before I ran down the concourse to the Panda Express I would be more likely to take it with me. (I do anyway, just saying).

 

[wahoo250]

when they pay for my uniform thats when they can tell me how to wear it.

 

[Drill Sgt. Dad]

Hat? What's a hat? Mine still sits in the closet. But when I am at work. I do make sure my shirts are cleaned and pressed and my pants are as well. I may not have the greatest physique anymore (Age 40; father time caught up with me) but I do try to look as professional as I can, as for a blazer, come on, like I would tell my college baseball coach when he told me to put a jacket on my arm, I'd say not in 80 degrees.
One of my former lives was in law enforcement. We didn't have to wear that hat either, but everday, the uniform had to be cleaned and pressed and shoes shined so shiny, you would need sunglasses to look at them. Even the service weapon and handcuffs and utility belts were to be shiny and clean.
Hair had to be kept neatly cut and females hair had to be contained as well. People didn't like you because of the status and authority, but you still had to look professional. Even at baseball games, the umpires all look uniform as well. If one base umpire is wearing a jacket, all base umpires will wear jackets, etc etc etc. Football they either wear long sleeve stripes of all wear short sleeve stripes. Now I know the last two statements would be tough in the airlines as I for one hate that heavy head sweating hat and don't care to wear it. Maybe the public in the airports would treat us the same and maybe they would sympathise with us if all looked professional, as our profession has taken a dump down the toilet.
By the way, didn't I see a pilot in IAD once with a ponytail?

Just my $.02

 

[BoilerUP]

By the way, didn't I see a pilot in IAD once with a ponytail?

I saw a former US Airways mainline guy with a ponytail once. Didn't say anything though, that guy was straight outta Gold's Gym and could have made quick work of me...

 

[Simon Says]

I think confronting the individual is the best way to go. Not to verbally assault them, but just to let them know people notice they look like an @ss bag. If they can walk freely through the airport with pilot after pilot passing them not saying a word, they will assume they are doing no wrong. If I knew someone was going to ask me where my hat was before I ran down the concourse to the Panda Express I would be more likely to take it with me. (I do anyway, just saying).

You guys are all talk. When it is hot out I DON'T WEAR A FREAKING TIE!!!! OR A HAT!!!!! I doubt you or anybody else, besides my chief pilot, has the ballz to say anything to me. Keep posting your self center answers on how you think other people should act.

BTW, no one has ever said a word to me about no tie/hat/blazer/etc. etc.

Come on guys.....confront me about it.....I am begging you.

 

[Hulk Hogan]

Kero,

I believe you are taking the high ground, and are right. If a pilot respects himself, and his profession, the profession has a better chance of succeeding.
Would you see a dentist with missing teeth?

Two barbers in a barber shop. One with a good haircut one with a bad haircut. Whose chair do you sit in?

 

[CA1900]

Two barbers in a barber shop. One with a good haircut one with a bad haircut. Whose chair do you sit in?

I'm an airline passenger. I sit in the seat that's 30 cents cheaper.

 

[I_Love_Lamp]

Two barbers in a barber shop. One with a good haircut one with a bad haircut. Whose chair do you sit in?

The one with the good haircut, as he's likely gay. If I play along well enough, I'll likely get a free haircut and maybe even dinner.

Sucker.

 

[zzyyxxtt]

the one with the bad haircut. They probably cut each others hair.

 

[KeroseneSnorter]

when they pay for my uniform thats when they can tell me how to wear it.

You should take up skydiving! Oh wait, you have to buy your own gear........that may not be such a good sport for you after all.:erm:

 

[Mercury]

when they pay for my uniform thats when they can tell me how to wear it.

Nice attitude!!!!Pretty sure that when you signed on to work for XYZ airlines you agreed to abide by the policies set forth in the FOM, which I'm sure tells you how the uniform is to be worn.

 

[big_al]

you uniform nazis really need to find a new hobby. seriously, if you think someone looks unprofessional because they dont wear a stupid tie then you are way too full of yourself

 

[KeroseneSnorter]

Interesting replies.

Generally speaking most of the responses from the older crowd state the fact that they try to look neat and professional when at work. One stated the fact of not wearing a tie in high heat with out an APU, which is understandable and within company requirements for his employer.

The younger crowd seems to be of the opinion that the rules of their employer do not apply to them at least concerning the uniform (I really likes the one about wearing it right when they pay for it........what he thinks that money placed in his account twice monthly is I do not know.)

The problem with the latter group is this. From a passenger/employer point of view, if a pilot can not even figure out how to follow the rules when dressing himself/herself, how can they be trusted to fly the aircraft within the specified rules and regulations? Given that flying is a much more difficult task that dressing yourself, it brings into question the "professionals" work ethic.

From a social point of view, we are seeing a strange shift in the younger generation. Some of it can be attributed to the concessions and such, but the "rules do not apply to me" mentality seems to be creeping in to all aspects of life in the U.S.

Since most of the guys posting about trying to preserve the professional look seem to come from the older more experienced pilots on the board, any comparison of how far they have been able to progress in their career would be hard to do right now. It will be interesting to drag this thread up after 5 years and compare what the "rebels" of this thread are flying as compared with the others that try to dress as required by the employers.

My guess, from a more experienced point of view and having dealt with both the hiring and firing and training of flight crews in the past as well as having flown for what used to be one of the 7 largest and best paying carriers out there, is that the rebels will either learn to conform, or in five years their situation will be pretty much unchanged except for more time in the log book.

Nobody that makes it to a major does so on flying skill. We all know how to fly airplanes and it only gets easier the farther the airplanes go and the larger they get. I did not beat out thousands of others to my seat by being a superpilot, I got there through networking, recommendations, good attitude, and wanting it. As a regional guy running around I doubt that I would have met a single pilot that would be willing to put his name on the CP's desk at his airline on my behalf if I had taken the attitude that the rules do not apply to me and didn't even bother to care how I appeared in front of customers.

I know I would never attach my name to the resume of someone like that. So far I am about average as far as recommending pilots go. Lost count of how many I helped pre airlines, but in the 121 world I got six people interviews at a regional, four interviewed at the major, and two jobs flying 747's. In all cases, the Chief Pilot always asked the same question when I hand carried the resume in...."Would you trust your reputation on this guy, and will he be a good employee and convey the right image to the passengers?" Note that they never asked about the flying skill, the fact that a pilot was recommending the guy and the resume said that.

Being a good stick will NOT get a seat in a six figure job......unless running drugs is a career option for you or if you happen to be a s#it hot aerobatic pilot out on the airshow circut. The last thing that SWA or anybody else wants is a slob or a rebel as a pilot. It is bad for business in a highly competitive airline market.

While I can sympathize with many on the pay issues (been there done that, doing it again probably) by not giving a crap all you are doing is shooting yourself in your career foot, I have my opinions on this thread, but in the end I really do not care, for every slob and rebel out there that is one less guy I have to compete with for the really good jobs.