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uwochris

Flightinfo's sexiest user
Joined
Dec 21, 2001
Posts
381
Hey guys,

The other day I had to use a GPU to start the plane due to a low-powered battery.

Once it finally started, I did a runup for about 15 minutes. When I took-off, the ammeter was at least 3-4 needle widths on the plus side.

When you use a GPU to start your plane due to a dead or low-powered battery, how long should one wait prior to t/o? Is it acceptable to t/o before the ammeter reaches a normal reading (i.e. this would mean an extended high-powered runup)?

Did I do something stupid that day, or was it ok?

Thanks in advance,

Chris.
 
The needle is usually just barely on the positive side, right? Normally the battery is full, and the alternator is just powering 10 amps or so of lights and radios. The higher load was normal, since the alternator was finishing topping off the battery.

It's good that you ran the engine for awhile before taking off, though. Once an engine is jump-started, the load on the alternator is extremely high, since the battery is taking all the amperage it can get to recharge. To avoid overloading the alternator or burning out the voltage regulator, you shouldn't put any other loads on the alternator until the load starts dropping down towards the normal range. Three or four needle widths is OK, since initially the need was probably almost pegged.
The same goes for jumping a car with a dead battery.
 
15 minutes isn't enough time to charge a completely discharged battery. If the electrical connections (battery, alternator, regulator and ground) are not solid, charging time will increase. When you flew the radios, strobes, taxi and landing light all consume power from the alternator that would otherwise charge the battery.

The source for the dead battery should be checked out. The charging system may be weak, the battery may unable to be fully charged or hold a charge.
 
Thanks for the info.

I never used the lights for t/o or runup- only had the radios on.

After a short while, the ammeter returned to normal, and the flight was uneventful. The battery is fairly new (<1 year old). It was dead because the previous pilot drained it trying to start the a/c.

Thanks again,

Chris.
 
Chris,


You didn't say what type of airplane or what kind of battery you are using. If a lead acid battery, you were probably fine allowing the aircraft system to charge the battery following engine start, but you do need to pay close attention the ammeter. If you have volts and amps monitoring capability, you need to check both. A high rate of charge and a high voltage means you need to shut down and remove the battery for service, and also probably remove the charging device (generator or alternator) for service.

After a low battery condition, you're going to see a high current flow...your electrical source is supplying more current to charge the battery...or more accurately, your battery is drawing a high electrical flow to recharge itself. This is normal.

Most maintenance publications will specify what the minimum voltage is before the battery must be removed for service. Most publications will also tell you not to charge a battery in the airplane. In the case of a lead acid battery, the danger is far less than a NICAD battery, but there's still a danger. Explosive gasses are produced during the charging process, heat is a byproduct of charging, and the gasses released from the battery during charging are corrosive; these enter into surrounding faying surfaces and in the presence of moisture will cause corrosion.

A NiCad battery is different. If the battery is discharged, you should have it serviced by a proper unit outside the aircraft. This is not a simple process, and the battery will probably need to be deep cycled, and may need direct maintenance. Recharging the battery from a discharged state may result in a thermal runaway, in which the battery temperature continues to increase until it can literally melt through the battery tray and fall out the bottom of the aircraft (a NiCad battery can do that just sitting on the ramp, incidentally). This isn't a common occurence, but it's a real consideration when charging a NiCad battery. Don't charge them in the airplane, and always refer to the maintenance publications for the aircraft and battery (often completely different sets of publications) for charging and service instruction.

Many aircraft manufacturers publish guidelines that dictate when you can use ground power vs. when you must remove the battery for servicing. Usually these specify voltage values. Never make assumptions about your system based on anything but what the manufacturer has provided; turn to that for direction.

The fact that your system was showing a high rate of charge following your ground start is quite normal. If your battery is completely discharged, you're better off removing it from the aircraft and charging it slowly for 24 hours before reinstalling it. The battery should also be checked per the maintenance manual prior to reinstallation, and should be load checked.

If the battery was just down a little after several start attempts, you may be able to leave it attached to ground power; leave it attached for at least fifteen minutes before attempting to start the aircraft or use the battery. Monitor the battery during the charging cycle. Batteries do bubble or boil during charging sometimes, especially with a high rate of charge. Check the case for warmth; discontinue the charging cycle if it's hot, and stay clear of it. During charging, generally one should loosen the battery caps for more adequate venting.

Keep a fire extinguisher handy and be prepared to remove the charging source from the battery. Wear eye protection any time you are doing anything with that battery. It only takes one very small droplet of acid, or even residue or grease that's contaminated, to ruin your vision for the rest your life.

Whenever you have any kind of fault, be it electrical, mechanical, pneumatic, hydraulic, fuel related, powerplant, whatever, always determine the cause of the fault before attempting to correct the fault. In this case, find out why the battery was low in the first place, and correct that. If it was a hard start or a series of start attempts, then find out why the engine didn't start before you wear it down again. Starting causes a high current flow, and I've seen the terminals melted right off a battery during the start process after the pilot pushed the starter limits and duty cycle. Don't do that. Find the cause, fix it, recharge, then do a normal start.
 
uwochris- I assumed that the "DA-20" in your profile refers to the Diamond Katana, not the Dassault Falcon, so this advice holds true for charging lead-acid batteries.

As an addendum to something Avbug said, you should never ever charge an aircraft battery using a ground power cart, unless the cart has a dedicated charging function. Many GA carts do, but some do not. Carts that are intended to be used for engine starting only can put out enough amperage to cause the electrolyte in a lead-acid battery to boil over, creating a mess that will cause immediate corrosive damage to the aircraft.
In aircraft with NiCad batteries, you run the risk of the aforementioned thermal runaway, where as the battery gets hotter, it becomes more conductive and draws more power, which makes it even hotter, etc. Most turbine-powered aircraft will disconnect the batteries when ground power is applied, but in most aircraft, there are ways to defeat that protection should you desire. NiCad batteries are always charged on the bench with a dedicated NiCad charger/conditioner.
 
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A few years ago I had to jump start a Cessna 180 due to a dead battery. I figured I'd just let it recharge while I flew. About 15 minutes after t/o the alternator quit. Of course, I was IMC and lost my NAV, COM, HSI, and turn coordinator about 2 minutes later.
 
Thanks again.

The a/c was a 152. I don't think the battery was completely drained, but the other pilot told me it was probably low due to the fact that he had many failed start attempts (the a/c was not preheated prior to starting, although it was in a heated hangar for a few hours). Also, the plane only has an ammeter- there was no way for me to check voltage.

Also, the POH for the 152 does not mention much about start cycles or starting with a GPU, which I find odd. I reference my 172 POH and use the recommended starter cycles for this a/c. For the GPU, I had a person who works at the FBO who is trained to use it to help me out. There was also an AME present who tried to help us start it, but he couldn't get it to start. He concluded that we needed to warm up the engine some more (I preheat the engine with a standard bedroom heater- I simply hold it up to the cowls and let the heat warm the engine). After spending another 5 minutes warming the engine, it finally started and ran fine.

In both the 152 and 172 POH, it mentions that the master switch should be ON prior to connecting the GPU; however, the person who was helping me told me it should be OFF, and once I was connected, I should turn only the battery side to ON. I'm not sure if this was the right thing to do or not. The POH says to keep the master ON prior to connecting so that the battery can absorb any transient voltages which may harm the transistors.

Chris.
 
I read somewhere a long time ago that the break even time on a lead acid battery after a normal start sequence is ten minutes. I would think 15 would be sufficient. You have two courses of action.. (1) make sure that the amperage and voltage indications are as they normally should be and if so continue (2) park the plane and call a mechanic. Having been a full-time mechanic, I can tell you that most(especially old ones) are condescending, crabby jerks that'll try to make you feel two inches tall and accuse you of breaking the airplane at any given opportunity. Chances are, there's nothing wrong and you walk away from the airplane feeling humbled. Which hurts more, a good "humbling" or death?
 
Uncle Sparky said:
Which hurts more, a good "humbling" or death?
Uhhhhh...I don't think death hurts, but that blunt trauma thing has be a real mother for ya.
 

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