DayJet Mins.

[On Your Six]

The target market is not necessarily the leisure market - it's the business traveller who has day-trip requirements (hence the name). I am sure there are plenty of business travellers who could use Dayjet to fly them between places like Jacksonville and Naples or Birmingham and Boca Raton - not easily reached via airlines. I've read that they plan to charge between $1-$3 per mile.

I agree that this sounds like a great job for retired airline pilots initially. Looks like a fun aircraft to fly and the schedule isn't bad. However, living in Florida on $50K for a non-retiree would be difficult.

Anyone know where the initial pilot bases would be other than PBI (I think that is where HQ is located)?

 

[p3hawk]

Think about all the furloughed pilots that might jump at this opportunity. $50k is better than nothing. especially working from 6-3.

 

[gunfyter]

I think the civilian Flight Instructors the AirForce used in single engine Cessna's out in Hondo, TX started in the 60K+ range.50K to fly a two engine jet single piloted....The gods must be crazy.

 

[Cavpilot]

Depends...

Whats the pay?

This is Don Osmunson's (Oz) outfit. Ask any senior Comair guy about how this guy runs things. I would not go there for any amount of money.

 

[RNObased]

So rich people don't want to fly on weekends or holidays? Right. We'll see how long that lasts.

According to the article on them today in the USA today, they are going after middle management types..... Hardly rich people IMHO..... The truely wealthy won't be caught dead on that jet....

 

[sweptwingz]

I sincerely wish Day Jet crews well, but as often as "lightweight" fractional jets go T/U on the road for MX, make darn sure that you have a small overnight bag with you! Rest assured, Day Jets crews won't ALWAYS be getting home each night. Especially on a brand new design that will be probably be "over-cycled" past standard design cycle limits like ALL fractional aircraft are.

 

[Corona]

I sincerely wish Day Jet crews well, but as often as "lightweight" fractional jets go T/U on the road for MX, make darn sure that you have a small overnight bag with you! Rest assured, Day Jets crews won't ALWAYS be getting home each night. Especially on a brand new design that will be probably be "over-cycled" past standard design cycle limits like ALL fractional aircraft are.

An overnight bag is always a good idea in turbine equipment.

However, the Eclipse has been specifically designed from Day One to put up with this type of high-cycle flying. It is a rather sophisticated airplane (autothrottles, etc), but has simple systems; ie no hydraulic, only electric; basic flight control systems, etc.

It's been tailored specifically for its customers' use. Funny; that's the same philosophy that Boeing and Airbus have had for years. Odd that the other corporate manufacturers whose names start with B, C, D, G and R haven't modified their philosophies given the frac model...

C

 

[Ultra Grump]

According to the article on them today in the USA today, they are going after middle management types..... Hardly rich people IMHO..... The truely wealthy won't be caught dead on that jet....

Whatever. According to the article, it'll be $3-4 per mile. With fuel costs, more likely $4 or more. Using the example of MGM-JAN, at $4/mile for 188 air miles is $752. Not many non-rich people want to pay that much to go less than 200 miles. In any case, that was not the point. Regardless of whether they're rich or not, anyone going to DayJet thinking they won't be working weekends and holidays will be in for a rude awakening.

 

[On Your Six]

Whatever. According to the article, it'll be $3-4 per mile. With fuel costs, more likely $4 or more. Using the example of MGM-JAN, at $4/mile for 188 air miles is $752. Not many non-rich people want to pay that much to go less than 200 miles. In any case, that was not the point. Regardless of whether they're rich or not, anyone going to DayJet thinking they won't be working weekends and holidays will be in for a rude awakening.[/quote]

Where do you get that impression? Do you have any details? DayJet doesn't sound like a typical fractional or 135 operation. I think it's a bit early to be making those kind of generalized statements.

Dayjet will need good and qualified pilots in order to ensure safety. And with a salary of only $50K or so initially, QOL will probably be a big retention factor...

 

[Guitar Guy]

An overnight bag is always a good idea in turbine equipment.

An overnight bag is good advice for any equipment, turbine or piston. Things break regardless of the type of powerplant.

However, the Eclipse has been specifically designed from Day One to put up with this type of high-cycle flying. It is a rather sophisticated airplane (autothrottles, etc), but has simple systems; ie no hydraulic, only electric; basic flight control systems, etc.

It's been tailored specifically for its customers' use. Funny; that's the same philosophy that Boeing and Airbus have had for years. Odd that the other corporate manufacturers whose names start with B, C, D, G and R haven't modified their philosophies given the frac model...

Embraer had a history of building regional airline equipment before the introduction of their jets and yet American Eagle had a lot of trouble upon the introduction of the ERJ's. Note, too, that JetBlue is having so-called teething troubles with their E-190's. So while Eclipse might well be trying to design high-cylce usage into their planes, the results of that effort are yet to be seen.

By the way, Cessna has tried to build the Sovereign with an eye towards the fractionals. Similarly, the long-delayed Hawker 4000 (nee Horizon) is also supposed to take into account that many of the operators will be fractionals, according to Raytheon.

 

[Ultra Grump]

Where do you get that impression? Do you have any details? DayJet doesn't sound like a typical fractional or 135 operation. I think it's a bit early to be making those kind of generalized statements.

Simple economics, and a little forward thinking. How big do you suppose their LA (pick your airport)-Vegas and LA-SFO market will be (when they eventually start it, and they'd be foolish not to)? With LA-SFO maybe they can get away with only catering to businesspeople, but LA-Vegas will not just be businesspeople, and those people will want to travel 7/365. That's not the only market to which this applies. You want to work there, more power to you. But don't come crying here when management suddenly changes schedules on you. You can't say you weren't warned.

 

[cjdriver]

Wait

Maybe this operation will be different. I happen to know some of the management, and they're from the hi-tech industry. What does that mean? It means they understand that their company will fail or succeed on the backs of their employees. Think "Stock Options". From what I understand of these folks, they are very concerned about the QOL of the pilots, which basically are the company from the customers point of view. If this were a frac op, no doubt things would go downhill quick as demand increased. Maybe not with these folks., We'll see.

 

[Cavpilot]

From what I understand of these folks, they are very concerned about the QOL of the pilots

What an f-ing joke! Their VP of operations has made a career out of hosing pilots! You may want to look before you leap on this one.

 

[cjdriver]

I agree

The Comair hire does not sound good, but he won't be making decisions on their business plan.

 

[COEX-FO]

What an f-ing joke! Their VP of operations has made a career out of hosing pilots! You may want to look before you leap on this one.

I'm not quite sure what this guy did at Comair, but whatever he did it was with the blessings of upper management. Perhaps at DayJets, upper management will not tolerate actions similar to what his previous employer was willing to accept.

DayJets sound very unique and interesting. It will be on my radar screen for quite some time.

 

[rice]

I'm not quite sure what this guy did at Comair, but whatever he did it was with the blessings of upper management. Perhaps at DayJets, upper management will not tolerate actions similar to what his previous employer was willing to accept.

DayJets sound very unique and interesting. It will be on my radar screen for quite some time.

Good 'cause it'll look like a big fat Level 5 attempting to pound you into the dirt within one year. Mark my words, year one will be great. Lots of new hires touting that the company is the latest and greatest place on earth. year two will bring grumbling from the ranks about how promises are being broken and the "Head Shed" doesn't have a clue how to run an "airline". (Make no mistake, Day Jet is/will be an airline, albeit operating under 135.) Year three will will bring animosity and unrest from the ranks do to a lack of work rules and financial pressures as the company tries to gain critical mass. Sound familiar to you FLOP's and NJA people????
This is nothing more than a variation of whats been done before. Will it succeed? Who knows but I guarantee it will have many of the same old problems inherent to all aviation companies.

 

[gunfyter]

http://www.usatoday.com/travel/fligh...-bonuses_x.htm

Screeners make $23,504 to $44,580 depending on experience

The bonus "isn't going to retain anybody," said Kimberly Kraynak, a $39,000-a-year screener at Pittsburgh International Airport. She called $500 "a joke."

The screener attrition rate grew to 24.5% from about 15% in 2003

​

What will be the attrition rate of Jet Captains making only $5K more than airport screeners? 500 PIC Jet to get hired demands a little more. "The gods must be crazy!"

We need my buddy Gulfstream 200 to get on this thread and give us all a dose of reality!

 

[Diesel]

G200 can't hes sitting in a marriott on the backside of the world waiting for his owner to decide to go home. Or maybe to just another country.

 

[gunfyter]

Diesel,

here is my favorite part of the article

TSA chief Kip Hawley told screeners in an April 20 newsletter that the longer they stay on the job, "the higher the performance of their security duties will be." Hiring and training a new screener costs $12,000

​

Whats it cost to hire and train a new Jet Captain?

I wonder if the screeners have to sign training contracts?

 

[Diesel]

If you leave you have to give back the type rating in the x ray machine.