Dassault Falcon

[chawbein]

I was watching Discovery Wings last night and they had "Wings Over France". Normally I would turn it because I'm not interested in how fast a frog fighter can run from the enemy.

It was on the Falcon jet. That is IMHO the second coolest line of biz jets in the world (Gulfstream #1). I didn't know you could takeoff and land on grass or dirt. It seems like a sweet plane to fly. Can anyone who flies one elaborate more?

Thanks

 

[BrnJetFuel]

I've been flying the Falcon 2000 for NetJets the last 3 years. Weve got over 30 of them now. I've flown several jets for this company and have an opportunity to fly with first officers that have flown everything from B1 bombers, F16's and Gulfstreams. Most will agree that though the French may think of themselves a little more than they ought to at times they are for sure pure craftsman and artists when it comes to making a falcon jet. For me it is the sweetest thing I've ever flown.

I understand a Gulfstream...the big real ones not the G200, is more of a truck feel when hand flying. The Falcon 2000 is very sensative and at first just keying the mike could be felt through the plane if you weren't careful. The hydraulic controls are fluid and smooth and very precise. If most business jets are like a camaro this is like a ferrari.

Im really looking forward to the Falcon 7X with the EAsy flight deck instruments and side stick controls...kinda airbus'sy but should be fun. All I can say is that I think the difference with the Falcon and from the other manufacturers is that Dassault is a Fighter Jet manufacter that got into building private jets...the technology and areodynamics really comes through.

A plane so sweet that everyone should be able to fly one at least once. Good Luck.

 

[Gulfstream 200]

They fly pretty nice....very low ref #s and uses very little runway. Has decent range, fairly comfy...
very reliable (at least the new ones...never flew any older ones)

Falcon, Gulfstream....yadda yadda...whatever pays the bills I say!

And Yes, I do agree with you...the French are complete **CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED**s, always have been, always will be....

 

[banned username 2]

Can anyone who flies one elaborate more?

What would you like to know?

I have flown the Falcon 10, Falcon 20, Falcon 50EX and Falcon 900EX...

They all fly really nice, the original Falcon 20 with the GE engines was a complete dog. The 50EX is a real performer, as a matter of fact last night I was climbing out of 12,000ft doing better than 350 KIAS and was climbing at 4,000 FPM... The 900EX is nice and comfortable and will go a long way (10 hours non-stop), it has a nice wide standup cabin...

 

[fokkerjet]

I love the emergency descent in the -2000, 15,000+ FPM

The -2000 is a very enjoyable plane to fly! I'm not aware of it being certified to fly off / on anything but hard surface runways.

 

[chawbein]

The show said that all were able to to/land on unprepared strips. They showed video of a Falcon 10, 20, and that three-holed jobby, taking off and landing from/on grass and dirt. They mentioned the 900 too. Maybe I'm mistaken.

 

[2000flyer]

I love the emergency descent in the -2000, 15,000+ FPM

The -2000 is a very enjoyable plane to fly! I'm not aware of it being certified to fly off / on anything but hard surface runways.

Next time you get to FSI, get in the 2000 box, climb to an altitude of your desire, hold the airplane into the stall. It stalls straight ahead in a 2000 FPM descent. Not a hint of wing drop whatsoever. Now, do the same in an Ultra and you just might get to experience a nicely done Split S.

I'll agree with the other posts, the 2000 is wonderful to fly. I went through initial with a G4 pilot. Ran into him about a year later and nearly all their crews preferred the 2000 over the G4.

2000Flyer

 

[banned username 2]

that three-holed jobby

All of the sudden I feel so inadequate!

 

[chawbein]

That three holed jobby...All of the sudden I feel so inadequate!

Darnit, are my redneck roots showing up again...?

That's a bad-@ss jet, I just can't remember the model. I'ld give my left pinkie-toe to fly it.

 

[banned username 2]

Darnit, are my redneck roots showing up again...?

That's a bad-@ss jet, I just can't remember the model. I'ld give my left pinkie-toe to fly it.

Whew.. OK, I feel better again...

The smaller of the "Three Holed Jobbys" is a Falcon 50 (also the Falcon 50EX which has a full glass cockpit and upgraded engines)

Click here ~> Dassault Falcon 50EX

The larger of the "Three Holed Jobbys" is the Falcon 900 (also the Falcon 900EX which also has a full glass cockpit, upgraded engines and longer range)

Click here ~> Dassault Falcon 900EX

Easiest way to tell a Falcon 50 from a Falcon 900 is the number of cabin windows... The Falcon 50 has 7 windows per side, the 900 has 12 windows per side.

 

[fokkerjet]

Did some full stalls in the actual airplane during training with Falcon Jet, very nice airplane.

I saw the show last night also. I'm sure it's a marketing deal doing the takeoff and landing from grass. I doubt it's certified by any goverment agency. But maybe........

 

[banned username 2]

Heard one story in initial about a crew flying an empty -2000, at night. Overflew ORD somewhere in the 40's and made a straight in into PWK with no problem.

I think you might need to put your boots on for this one...

PWK is only about 7 miles north of ORD... Just think of the geometry of that one. At "40 something" thousand feet you'd be doing 460 KTAS which is 7.6 miles per minute, which means they would cover that 7 miles in about a minute. They would have been doing 45,000 FPM+ in the descent to make that one work...

The best I have done is right at 20,000 FPM in a descent from FL 450 down to 10,000 ft... This took idle power, full speed brakes and descending at Mmo (0.86M) to Vmo (370 KIAS)... Not much more I could have done to make it come down any faster...

Just my $0.02

 

[fokkerjet]

It doesn't seem right. does it?

 

[2000flyer]

I did FL350 to wheels on the runway in 3 min 26 sec. Of course, this was in the sim during training. Had it been the real plane I would have probably ripped the gear doors off the plane (lowered gear at 356kts) and more than likely would have fried the brakes as well. But, thats what sims are made for (doing that which you would never think of doing in the real thing). I would have never imagined getting the plane down 35,000 feet and on the ground in that short of time (civilian plane anyway).

I have seen pictures of Falcon 50's operating on unimproved strips throughout Africa. I don't know what if any special requirments have to be met though. But, if a 737 can do it, why not a Falcon!

2000Flyer

 

[Contract Guy]

During a stint in Africa I saw 737’’s and 727’s operate off of dirt strips in Northern Angola in support of mining operations.

 

[Rick1128]

It is my understanding that it is a FAA certification issue. The HS125 is certificated for unimproved runways, but you will not find that in any US a/c AFM. I saw the show also and they stated that it was certified for unimproved runways. I'm not sure if I would want to do it with the small nose tire though

 

[2000flyer]

I'm not sure about other aircraft, but some C500 series planes are certified for gravel runways, provided you have the nosewheel spin-up kit installed and T/Rs are not used on landing.

You'll also see some LR25/35s with this kit installed.

2000Flyer

 

[rice]

Where is he?

Shouldn't GVFlyer be showing up soon professing the virtues of Savannah?
I just love stirring the pot .

 

[banned username 2]

Re: Where is he?

Shouldn't GVFlyer be showing up soon professing the virtues of Savannah?
I just love stirring the pot .

OH GREAT! NOW you did it!

He must be off in some far corner of the world where they don't have internet access... that would be the ONLY logical explanation for his absence on a Pro-Falcon thread!

 

[Timebuilder]

You'll also see some LR25/35s with this kit installed.

Ah, a learning opportunity for me!

Can you explain how a "spin-up kit" works?

 

[Rick1128]

spin up kit

I have only seen it on 35s. But there is a valve on the switch panel next to the quadrent. When turned on, bleed air is routed through a tube to blow on a vaned hubcap that is installed on the nose wheel. Causing the nose tire to spin up. This kit also includes teflon shields on the underside of the flaps and stone guards on the landing lights.

 

[2000flyer]

Spin-up Kit

I'm not really sure how they work on the Citation. The only reason I've heard of them is a brief discussion in Citation recurrent that goes something like this...

"Anyone here fly an airplane with the gravel kit installed....No...okay, lets move on!"

I'm not sure if the Citation uses bleed air or ram air to spin the tire. I'm guessing ram air as early models didn't have a whole lot of extra bleed air to spare.

2000Flyer

 

[bigD]

He must be off in some far corner of the world where they don't have internet access... that would be the ONLY logical explanation for his absence on a Pro-Falcon thread!

What, you mean the GV doesn't have some sort of satellite internet access built into the FMS? What a piece of crap!

 

[Diesel]

There is an citation in chicago over at mdw at milliion air that has a spin up kit installed on it. Looked like it used ram air to start the thing moving.

Was kind of a big hub over the nose wheel. With two inlets in the front and two out the back. Way I figure it air comes in spins around this huge metal hub and out the back.

Looked pretty big and heavy though.

 

[GVFlyer]

What, you mean the GV doesn't have some sort of satellite internet access built into the FMS? What a piece of crap!

Of course it does. The Swift 64 provides you with a secure link that actually goes behind your company's firewall to get you on the company intranet.

I just was letting you Falcon guys play!

For those who feel so inclined, a gravel kit is available on the Lear as well.

GV

 

[banned username 2]

Of course it does. The Swift 64 provides you with a secure link that actually goes behind your company's firewall to get you on the company intranet.

GVFlyer...

How do you guys like the Swift 64? I think that is the system we are having installed in our 900's...

 

[GVFlyer]

Swift 64

To use test speak - It is still a developmental item.

GV

 

[banned username 2]

Re: Swift 64

To use test speak - It is still a developmental item.

GV

Yeah, thats what I thought, I know they cut us a really good deal, I think to get their foot in the door and use us as a sort of test bed...

Time will tell...

 

[ultrarunner]

You need the Gravel Kit

I love the emergency descent in the -2000, 15,000+ FPM

The -2000 is a very enjoyable plane to fly! I'm not aware of it being certified to fly off / on anything but hard surface runways. [/QUOTE]

You can comply with the 'Gravel Kit' SB. Our 10 has it. Basically it consists of doublers under the flaps, directly aft of the MLG, metal grill covers for the landing lights, and a clear heavy duty plastic guard infront of the belly beacon.

that's it.