DASH 8-400 (Q400) drivers?

[AV80R]

Are there any DASH 8-400 (Q400) drivers here? I’m just curious if that aircraft has a “reputation” here in the States for breaking down a lot?

I'm curious because there was an accident in Ålborg, Denmark yesterday (~4PM local time) where a Scandinavian (SAS) Q400 made an emergency landing due to some landing gear indications and then the right main gear collapsed shortly after touchdown.

After watching the VIDEO I also read an article in a Swedish newpaper (Aftonbladet - 'Evening Post') where they said the Q400 aircraft has had some "mx issues" in the past. Don’t really have the time to translate the article but basically it talks about some landing gear problems and previously (not related to this accident) some prop sync issues which caused one of the engines to over speed etc…what is your perception of this airplane?

Ps. There were only a few minor injuries in this accident.

I always heard really good things about the Q400. It is the same plane Horizon is using, correct? Thanks for y’alls feedback.

- I hope the video link works, they change them frequently so I’m not sure how long it’ll be up and running. Also, sorry about the silly commercials and the pop-ups (must be enabled for the video) - at least it’s in ‘foreign’! :laugh:

http://www.aftonbladet.se/atv2/init.html?id=categories/Nyheter/0709/5995&category=nyheter&commercial=yes

or

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=ed8_1189365556

 

[belchfire]

I've heard some rumors that the new mark has not been quite as reliable as the old Dash-8 but they mostly seemed to be in the new technology side of the airframe.

It's my opinion that the underlying cause is the limited production in relationship to the CRJ family-they are stretched to the limits in product support and not as interested in their prop-driven line which is in my opinion a grave error as fuel prices continue to rise.

I think that given the right leadership and start-up funding a short haul airline could go it alone based on a Q-400 fleet. They can run at seat mile costs competetively with a 737.

 

[jellynuts]

wait until Colgan gets ahold of them... then you'll see a whole new rash of mx issues with them!

 

[katanabob]

...previously (not related to this accident) some prop sync issues which caused one of the engines to over speed etc…

1. The Q400 does not have a separate 'prop sync' in the style of the other -8's. Rather, the props are electronically controlled (PEC) and they cross-talk to maintain similar RPM.

2. The Q400 condition levers do not feed information into the PEC as normal condition levers would typically feed into a prop governing system. They only allow selection of 1020 RPM, 900 RPM, 850 RPM, Feather, or Fuel Off. (No possible settings in-between these detents)

3. The crew in question had set 900 or 850 RPM, then accidentally bumped one of the power levers forward of the rating detent. This engaged 'overtravel', in which FADEC allows up to 125% of max rated power to be selected. As a condition of overtravel, the prop is automatically run up to 1020 RPM by PEC.

4. Though the crewmember returned the power lever to the rating detent, he now had one prop at 1020 and the other at 850 or 900. (I don't remember which) Since both condition levers were still back at 850 or 900, (still don't remember which) and one prop was stable at 1020, they incorrectly diagnosed the problem as an overspeed. (since actual RPM was more than selected.) They shut down the engine as per QRH procedure.

5. The problem can be simply corrected by pushing both condition levers up to 1020 (matching both prop RPMs) and then returning them to the original (desired) setting.

 

[upndsky]

Sorry,

On a slightly different topic, are the Q400s often weight restricted or can you easily carry a full boat and a jumpseater? Just trying to figure out how that's going to work in EWR with Colgan.

Now back to our original programming.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

wait until Colgan gets ahold of them... then you'll see a whole new rash of mx issues with them!

The SAS pilots have representation and will recieve due process in the accident.

The colgan pilots, not IF but when, have an accident or incident....(let's hope not..but things do happen in this biz)... will be hung out to dry..... Any company responsibility will be swept under the rug and the burden will be dump on the problem... the PIC... the problem will easily go away... via termination...

If the NTSB investigates there will some objectvity.... the NTSB... its predecessor, the Civil Aeronautics Board, was created from a political push by ALPA..... because ALPA was tired of accidents unfairly being dumped on pilot error....

 

[DashTrash400]

Sorry,

On a slightly different topic, are the Q400s often weight restricted or can you easily carry a full boat and a jumpseater? Just trying to figure out how that's going to work in EWR with Colgan.

Now back to our original programming.

Depends on the route. You can generally fill up the seats and take a lot of baggage and still take two jumpseaters before hitting Max ZFW. Problems mainly arrise on burn-limited legs and those that have a min total fuel greater than 8000 lbs...but I'd say 95% of the time we can take a jumpseater if not two (2nd aft FA jumpseat).

 

[DashTrash400]

And yes, the Q400 is a poorly designed piece of crap. Bombardier didn't take the time to work through the bugs and their support has been dismal since day one. At Horizon, we had to come up with fixes on a lot of bugs by ourselves, and we then told Bombardier so they could incorporate them into the production line. A bit backwards, no? The most recent group of airplanes we've taken delivery of were supposed to incorporate a lot of new fixes, but they've been just as bad as the old ones, simply with new bugs. Besides all the little annoying things, we've had two major issues with the engines that caused several engine failure & smoke in the cabin incidents and resulted in major inspection/replacement programs that kept significant portions of our fleet out of service for weeks.

Keep in mind that we have good, well-trained maintenance with six years of experience on the airplane, and our reliability numbers still aren't that great. Colgan is going to have a whole lot of fun at first, I think.

Other than maintenance, the plane is pretty amazing. It'll haul a whole crapload and sip the fuel at 365 kts. The best part of going into major airports is blowing the doors off jets & hearing ATC tell you "Traffic to follow is a 737 at 12 o'clock and six miles, you're 90 kts faster." You can go from 250 to Vref in a few miles. It's pretty fun to fly, although a bit of a truck (heavier in roll than other DHC8s) and bouncing through the tops all winter long at FL250 gets old.

 

[rickair7777]

The SAS pilots have representation and will recieve due process in the accident.

The colgan pilots, not IF but when, have an accident or incident....(let's hope not..but things do happen in this biz)... will be hung out to dry..... Any company responsibility will be swept under the rug and the burden will be dump on the problem... the PIC... the problem will easily go away... via termination...

If the NTSB investigates there will some objectvity.... the NTSB... its predecessor, the Civil Aeronautics Board, was created from a political push by ALPA..... because ALPA was tired of accidents unfairly being dumped on pilot error....

That video pretty removed removed any suspicion of pilot error...but thanks for the alpa plug!

 

[DashTrash400]

That video pretty removed removed any suspicion of pilot error...but thanks for the alpa plug!

Eh, what if the pilots didn't run the checklist absolutely correctly? What if the pilots DID do it correctly but the CVR reveals that below 10k they were talking about their wild layover with the hot FAs the night before? We had a pilot who was almost fired because the crew after him ran off the runway and a review of the CVR revealed that this guy was listening to an AM station on the ADF all the way down to landing. They're gonna closely review the logbook in an accident. Are you sure you crossed your i's and dotted your t's every time you flew that plane in the last year? Accidents can bite you even when it's not your fault or when you're not even the person involved.