DALPA Rep Says no go to merger....

[PCL_128]

Just what lefties like Rez O. Lenin, PCL128 and other union stooges would like...more interaction with communists.

Actually, us "lefties" hate open-skies and want nothing to do with increased trade with China. It's your anti-worker buddies up at 1600 Pennsylvania Ave that are all about being friends with the red Chinese. The only time a Republican is against a trade agreement is when he's trying to buy votes from the Cuban community in South Florida.

 

[FDJ2]

Good thing it will be decided by more reasoned voices on either side...

If there were reasoned voices on both sides at the SLI Merger Committee meetings this issue would have been put to rest over a week ago. Unfortunately one MEC sent a Jurrasic committee with a perfect record of 26 arbitrations and 0 negotiated results to NYC. The end result was predictable from day one.

Premium paid positions (330/767 or above rates)brought to merger

DAL: 4100

NWA: 1355

I understand that the difference in retirement numbers is about 29 in the next 5 years, peaking at about 580 ten years from now.

So why aren't we talking about the extra 2900 premium paid jobs the Delta pilots are bringing instead of an average difference in retirement of 60/year over the next 10 years?

Why aren't we talking of the scheduled mainline airframes DAL is bringing this year instead of the airframe retirements NWA is bringing?

Perhaps because the Delta pilots didn't show up to quibble, whereas a certain committee did.

It's not arrogant to give someone equal value for his position on his list as you give to your position on yours.

 

[Fly4hire]

Premium paid positions (330/767 or above rates)brought to merger

DAL: 4100

NWA: 1355

It's not arrogant to give someone equal value for his position on his list as you give to your position on yours.

Well, it appears we can't even agree on the definition of apples and oranges let alone, compare apples to apples.

Reality check - breakout the 757's from the 767 and you lose about 100 WB's staffed at what per acft? Oh yeah a 757 is a WB - not (hint - 1. count the aisles, 2. does it need augmented crews). And $10/hr more than we pay does not make it one. Subtract ~ 1400 from your side.

Add the 68 (options will be exercised, front of the line) 787's that will be double or even triple crewed and it results in a minimum of 2000 positions.

Most of our pilots are also retiring at 60 - right now, so the retirement numbers are skewed in our favor as well.

But whatever, I don't expect to convince wankers like you anyways. Too bad Moak is going to blow what could be such a golden opportunity.....

 

[120% Torque]

Sorry but you are high if you think you can negotiate based upon:

"options will be exercised"

and

"Most of our pilots are also retiring at 60"

Its kind of like management promising future growth for low wages now. I would expect a skywest newbie to bite but most will know better. Nice try though.

 

[Tref]

It appears you have issues.

Do you think that someday my issues will be as big and important as yours? I can dream, can't I?

 

[Superpilot92]

Sorry but you are high if you think you can negotiate based upon:

"options will be exercised"

and

"Most of our pilots are also retiring at 60"

Its kind of like management promising future growth for low wages now. I would expect a skywest newbie to bite but most will know better. Nice try though.

Oh you mean like you being "high" thinking you know whats going on in this whole deal 98.5% of us on this site have NO idea whats really going on or what WILL happen in regards to the merger. nice try though

 

[FDJ2]

Well, it appears we can't even agree on the definition of apples and oranges let alone, compare apples to apples.

Reality check - breakout the 757's from the 767 and you lose about 100 WB's staffed at what per acft?

I thought I was referring to premium paying positions. Our 757 pay is about the same as your 330, your 757 rate is about the same as our Mad Dog.

We are talking about equities brought to the merger aren't we? Get you 757 rates up to ours and we can then give them the same equity value.


Add the 68 (options will be exercised, front of the line) 787's that will be double or even triple crewed and it results in a minimum of 2000 positions.

Oh, so we should count options too? What do they pay, DAL 757 rates? What are the scheduled delivery dates of those 68 options. How many aircraft retirements will you experience in that same time period?

Most of our pilots are also retiring at 60 - right now, so the retirement numbers are skewed in our favor as well.

Oh, so we should determine what someone might or might not do. If he retires early do you have more retirements or less down the road?

But whatever, I don't expect to convince wankers like you anyways. Too bad Moak is going to blow what could be such a golden opportunity.....

Too funny. Moak and the Delta pilots created the opportunity. You're just playing catch up with the concept. That's o.k., but don't take too long to wrap your heads around it, the opportunity doesn't have a long shelf life.

Don't get me wrong, I don't want to quibble, but if you insist on focussing on only one issue and never address the others we wont have an agreement.

We approached this from a desire to avoid this type of quibbling. Our opener was not an end zone dance from which we start giving to reach a negotiated result.

If this doesn't work out, fine, time to move on. No hard feelings.

 

[Diesel-9]

Its not how much you make. Its how much you save.

 

[~~~^~~~]

Choices

Right now we have a choice. We can come at this like businessmen and share in the benefits of a 1.5 to 2.0 Billion package for our cooperation while still putting the entire deal up for membership ratification ~ or ~ one fine spring day we can learn about a merger over the radio on the way to work and fight with each other while recieving nothing.

The Delta MEC deserves a huge amount of credit for getting management to the table with substantial pay restoration.

While we all might be beathing a collective sigh of relief, the storm clouds of consolidation remain. At $100+ a barrell can our companies afford to obtain the new airplanes needed to be competitive in the future? Do our route systems make sense, using RJ's to raid each other's hubs?

We have a unique opportunity to vote on a merger. Right now none of us even know what the deal is because nobody is going to release anything in writing until it is in fact an tentative agreement.

I doubt mergers have gone away. Right now pilots have a choice - as a profession I hope we do not squander this unique position.

 

[Noserider76]

If there were reasoned voices on both sides at the SLI Merger Committee meetings this issue would have been put to rest over a week ago. Unfortunately one MEC sent a Jurrasic committee with a perfect record of 26 arbitrations and 0 negotiated results to NYC. The end result was predictable from day one.

Premium paid positions (330/767 or above rates)brought to merger

DAL: 4100

NWA: 1355

I understand that the difference in retirement numbers is about 29 in the next 5 years, peaking at about 580 ten years from now.

So why aren't we talking about the extra 2900 premium paid jobs the Delta pilots are bringing instead of an average difference in retirement of 60/year over the next 10 years?

Why aren't we talking of the scheduled mainline airframes DAL is bringing this year instead of the airframe retirements NWA is bringing?

Perhaps because the Delta pilots didn't show up to quibble, whereas a certain committee did.

It's not arrogant to give someone equal value for his position on his list as you give to your position on yours.

Spot on once again. We're dealing with a very angry group for the most part. Not sure if we need any of that here. Hopefully we have a choice.

No matter what you say, they'll say "our seniority is not for sale" So I guess ours is? The DL relative seniority deal on the table will have many of us stagnating for years in our bases unless we're willing to commute to the DC-9. At $125/hr it's not much more than my beaten down rate is now. I don't want any part of it.