Dalpa files Furlough Grievance....

[General Lee]

UPDATE - Delta pilots union files grievance over furloughs
Wednesday July 9, 4:10 pm ET
By Meredith Grossman Dubner


(Adds no comment from company, other details)
CHICAGO, July 9 (Reuters) - The pilots union at Delta Air Lines (NYSEAL - News) has filed a grievance with the carrier for using a "force majeure" clause in its labor contract to furlough 250 workers, a union spokesman said on Wednesday.



Mike Pinho, spokesman for Delta's unit of the Air Line Pilots Association (News - Websites), said the grievance with the No. 3 U.S. airline was filed on June 26 after Delta cited the Iraq war as justification for the pilot furloughs.

Delta spokeswoman Peggy Estes said she could not comment on the grievance.

Airline labor agreements contain force majeure clauses that give carriers the flexibility to lay off workers without adhering to strict seniority provisions during unexpected crises.

U.S. airlines used the war with Iraq and a subsequent decline in air travel demand as legal justification for thousands of layoffs, setting off a number of fights with unions.

The Delta pilots were furloughed April 1, May 1 and June 1, Pinho said.

"Now that the war in Iraq has been declared over by the president of the United States, ALPA feels that the circumstances under which Delta declared force majeure are no longer there," Pinho said.

Pinho said the union has met with the Atlanta-based company to review its grievance, and Delta has 60 days to respond.

Delta and leaders of its pilots union last week opened early talks on contract changes. Delta has said it needs pay cuts from pilots, who are paid the highest salaries among their peers, to remain competitive with rivals who have reduced their pilots' pay by nearly one-third.

Delta's pilots are the only group of unionized workers at the airline.

Delta in April proposed reducing pilots' hourly pay by 22 percent and canceling 4.5 percent raises this year and next.

The union has said it will seek a return on any potential investment it decides.




Good. Let's hope this starts to bring back some of the furloughs soon. Everyone can see that the War Emergency is over and the loads have filled up. I hope the arbitrator sees that too.

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[Networ-King]

General,

Resistance is FUTILE..... we will all be assimilated into the Comair, ASA Borg.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Sorry, while I don't agree or disagree with what you had to say, until you learn to say it in a less offensive manner, it will be removed.

UAL78
Moderator
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^


your turn...........

 

[Heavy Set]

How can anyone respond to Networ-King's posting? It could be a little MORE descriptive, though.

I agree - time to return the furloughees to the flight deck - the war, knock on wood, is over and force mejeur NO LONGER APPLIES....

 

[AlbieF15]

Stillaboo,

Absolutely the best avatar seen to date. I am not worthy.

 

[FLB717]

NetWorking,

I love it when a guy calls it as they see it. You may be the most correct of all.

**CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED** THAT was FUNNY

 

[FlyingSig]

This may just mean that the 250 who were furloughed out of seniority will be brought back and then 250 pilots will be furloughed in seniority instead.

FYI,

The 250 were furloughed in senority order. Delta has a no furlough clause. However, they invoked a clause that allows them to furlough anyway due to "circumstances beyond the control of the company". That event was supposedly the war in Iraq. That circumstance is now over (according to the man who started the war) and thus the greivance.


They were furloughed after an arbitrator declared the circumstances beyond the control of the company that allowed Delta to furlough the other 1060 pilots (the events of 9-11) over and that Delta was no longer allowed to furlough pilots. Some pilots had even gotten their original furlough notices recinded due to the arbitrator only to have a new force majeur event happen.

Senority however, was never an issue.

 

[skykid]

I hope the grievance is successful and all are brought back. More likely, the major's work rules will look alot more like LCC work rules in the future, which means more productivity - less pilots. Hope I'm wrong -good luck!

 

[Networ-King]

UAL78,

Man you really didn't need to do that. I think if you look back at my posts you'll see that Im pretty level headed and I say it like it is in a PC sort of way. My post really had no " forum misdimeanor" as you would say it. Im sorry that I offended you, but what you did, IMHO, was wrong. I followed your rules and you judged what I said and yes, your computer is mightier then my computer, but I still stand on my first post. I know that some of the guys herel..... like .... 717 saw my post and agree with it. You might disagree, but that was wrong of you to remove it or edit it, IMHO........ now if I didn't have 7 vodka tonics tonight, then I'd remember exactly what I worte earlier and I'd rephrase it. But .......... thats gonna have to wait till tomorrow morning, or ......errrrr........ afternoon.........I'll have to see how I feel. Anyways....... I would like to make it clear that I stand by 100% with my first post......even though UAL78 (the moderator) does not. Se la vi ........ eh..........................

 

[Networ-King]

ooooohhhhhhhh

I remember what I posted earlier....... UAL78.... you got it all wrong......


Guys and Gals and (General)

All I said was that....

This whole grievance thing is a bunch of bulls!it. ALPA is a bunch of worthless bunch of ....... ahem...... freaks(just for you UAL78) out there. I also said that ALPA..... in their infinate wisdom could suck on my left ......perverbial wal(nut) and then they could transition to my right perverbial wal (nut)..... with their grievance. And after they were done with that they could (blow) dry (me) with the amount of hot air comming out of their mouths. Now I did make menthion of how the General should spare me with his enthusiastic speech of delta being the best and greates of the majors and how the CEO'S are worthless of all the airlines except maybe about 4 of them......... and how with all the stuff going on, Delta and ALPA, could continue on after doing their (suck job) of running the airline, could both toss my salad ( that Im making for dinner) for being such worthless entities. At least my dues would be worth something. Here is to not showering or washing up till delta and alpa get done with their (suck job) of keeping pilots careers in one piece. Till the hangover is .....well..... over.............


hope this doesn't offend the all mighty moderator.

 

[General Lee]

From Stillaboo:

"This may just mean that the 250 who were furloughed out of seniority will be brought back and then 250 pilots will be furloughed in seniority instead.

The war in Iraq is over, but the war b/t ALPA and managment is just begining, unfortunatly."

What? Flying Sig had it right. You obviously don't understand the rules here. We still have a No Furlough Clause that states that regardless of the economy, or profitability or UNPROFITABILITY of the airline, NO FURLOUGHS. There would have to be something BIG to happen airline related (like another 9-11) or a Major War for them to furlough again. Since I don't think Liberia will be a major problem (it is a peace keeping mission)---Delta will probably have to bring atleast 250 back. They were furloughed on the "War Emergency", and the War was declared over when Bush flew on to that carrier. The loads have been packed lately, which shows people are not scared to fly. The fares are low, but according to the above statement, even if we are UNPROFITABLE---NO FURLOUGHS.

FLB717,

Man you are really wrong. I read on the Dalpa website that an ASA Capt on a 767's guy's jumpseat told him that DCI was not going to get any more new RJ's for awhile and that the only new airplanes headed toward Delta in the future are the 120 737-800's that Delta mainline has on order---that was pushed to 2005-06. After those 8 CRJ's at Comair and 15 CR7's at ASA next year--the expansion is over. I know you are at Airtran and your buddies are still at Comair, but that Borg will stop expanding. I wonder what Delta will do when they HAVE TO recall more than the 250 furloughs....?

Networ-king,

I know you are bitter. I am sorry for that, and I hope someday you come back to Delta, or go to Jetblue, or whatever. What I say on this forum is not propoganda etc----it is what I hear on the line or what I actually read from the news etc. I have opinions and I, like you, express them. I stay positive because I believe things will get better, and we will not give in during negotiations. If you think about it, why would Dalpa make a big deal about this grievance if they were going to give up more furloughs? They wouldn't-----that would be hypocritical and wrong. They are trying to help the company a little and at the same time trying to maintain and get you guys back. The retirments upcoming in the next few months will explode because Bush and his people are trying to push something through Congress to help the companies out regarding retirement, at the detriment to Labor. Apparently a load of extra pilots will be retiring early soon, and that will get things flowing. I don't know how far down you are, but I think things will start to move again eventually. Stay strong brother.

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[rjcap]

Networking,

You are my hero.

 

[CU@OSHKOSH]

Gen,

I think you would be surprised to find out how many share NetWor-King's sentiments.

 

[Networ-King]

General,

There is only one reason why you are staying positive.......... thats because you are still employed by POS delta and still getting a paycheck. I have been on the street now for over a year and a half, Im on my second furlough and next month, believe it or not, Im back to flying the Airbus and I'll even get to fly left seat for a few months. Im not sitting on my ass not trying, I am positive, about the fact that Delta and Uncle leo can blow me (with a hair dryer when I get out of the pool). What you don't seem to get is that after being an ALPA member for .....aaaahhh......jesus.......8 years now...... they have done NOTHING for me......EVER....... They are a bunch of .....ahem..... you know what. Dalpa will cave, we will be sold down the river, you will be a first officer for another 15 years, uncle leo and granma burns will get filthy rich, and because of all the debt accrued during these time delta will eventually die and song will be the latest and greatest airline to join the ranks of the LCC's, with a new pay scale for the pilot when they sell the bit*h off and call it a wholly owned.

I sat next to one of the owners of Suncountry while flying through SLC. The guy was a fu*king moron, said things like, all you pilots are over paid, you should be getting paid the same as the flight attendants. no joke. This guys compared his 4 PoS 737-800 's to Delta....... made me laugh, but my point is how the hell do you argue with an idiot that says sh*t like that? Unlce leo is no different man..... they all go to the same school. 3-4 of them decided not to conform and now they have successfull airlines and everybody wants to work for them. Not because they pay the best, or have the best work rules, but because their management doesnt treat them like the piece of gum that gets stuck to the bottom of your shoe. So you keep believing in delta...........more power to you.........and I'll keep trying for jetblue, and once I get it........ I'll put my delta seniority number up for sale on ebay........ bet you I'll get maybe .05 cents for it, if that, cause at that price its even inflated. God speed and fly safe and still not gonna shower till Uncle leo, delta and ALPA lick the lolly pop and two jaw brakers I bought them.

 

[Vortilon]

King,

Dude, you need to have a beer. Its just a job.

 

[Mu2Driver]

hey, I will give you 10 cents for your delta seniority number

 

[cl65@350]

i think it is important to remember...most of us have 25 plus years left in this industry...our biggest threat to job security is not leo, lorenzo etc...it is our health...just found out a friend of mine...capt at a major was making bank just got MS...career OVER!

I agree that you can jump jobs in search of the best pay and benefits, but you will be changing companies every five years. lets face it...dalpa alpa and the rest do not set the pay and benefits rules...markets do...unfortunately now there are too many people that will fly for free and that will have an affect on all pilot careers in some way or another.

also, those of us who have been around for awhile....look at the trends...what is the darling today may not be the darling 10-15 years from now...ESPECIALLY if the original founder of the company retires and we get some jacka$$ from harvard to come in and destroy the company...so we must keep hoping that SWA doesnt change core management and neither does jetBlue. time will tell but be thankful for your health...


you either work to live.... or live to work

which do you want to be?

 

[rjcap]

Dude, you need to have a beer. Its just a job

Its not just a job. Its a nightmare that I can't wake up from.

 

[General Lee]

Networ-King,

**CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED**. Yeah, you are bitter. Yes, I am lucky and happy to be still flying, and really the main thing is luck. A lot of what you say about Dalpa is probably true, but I don't think everything you say is going to be true. I think Song will spread to all of the 757's (120 of them), and I think they may want to separate us (like Delta Express vs Mainline), but doubtful they would want to sell off a profitable subsidiary. They will probably change the pay rates on the 757 and make you work 5-10 extra hours a month to make up the difference, but that will be it. (IMHO) When you say Dalpa is going to sell us out over the river, I think it is relative. The Contract we got with Dalpa's help (And UAL's bad summer and subsequent contract) is better now than anyone elses. (They all went Chap 11 or close to it) Our 767-400 FO's (12 year) make $25 more an hour than a current AA or UA 777 CAPTAIN. A 737-200 Capt makes more than that. Not bad, huh? Delta will owe $1 Billion in debt payments in 2005. Yes, I know it really isn't our fault, but we will probably chip in a little to help----along with every other employee. We won't give them 31%----probably 10-15%, and those high rates could probably take a little hit and still be a lot higher than any other airlines pay. What else will we give them? I don't know. But, we won't exacerbate the furlough problem by furloughing more ( since the grievance was filed), and we will try to get the movement flowing. Will there be productivity enhancements? Probably, and hopefully it won't be ridiculous. I don't think it will----I think most people would rather not have to work an extra 5-10 hours a month---- Time off is a premium to a lot of people. But, I don't know what Dalpa is negotiating right now.

Do I mind being an FO for 15 more years? Nope. Not at these rates, which will not significantly go down for a long while. Unless we hit Chap 11 (unlikely according to Leo), we will probably stay at the top of the heap. I am not driven to become a Captian just to be a Captain. (Been there...) I hope we eventually get that growth back and you have the option to come back. But, if you would rather sell of your number at Ebay, then do it. A lot of people want to come back, and they will eventually. Enjoy flying your Airbus and hopefully you will get what you want. Someday you too may be positive again and able to enjoy life. I hope that is soon.


RJCap,

Your nightmare is the regional industry right now. Mesa is taking over and your contract at ASA isn't going to be as good as it could of been thanks to them and Skywest etc. I hope you guys get what you want, but everyday it seems to get worse. Good luck.

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[AJWick]

Holy Cow....This is one funny A$$ thread.

Thanks boys for livening my day.

aj

 

[General Lee]

Wick,

This whole thread was just to announce that Dalpa was actually trying to fight the furloughs and try to get some people back to work. Instead it turned into a bitter thread. I can sort of understand some of their frustration, but the good news is Dalpa is attempting to help.

Bye Bye--General Lee