DALPA DFW LEC comments on ASA/CMR

[drag]

Funny how LCC's provide better service/comfortability than DAL. Buy a ticket on DAL and chances are you'll end up on some cramped RJ. Especially when connecting through DFW. SLC and CVG aren't much better. Flying on SWA is an upgrade from DAL RJ's. Jetblue or Airtran is like flying w/ the rich. LCC Airtran can't justify RJ's and they're spanking DAL in ATL. Now the Canadian gov't will subsidize Bombardier/CMR to add more of these parasites. My have things changed. I'm sorry, but I think DAL will be forced out of DFW while they embark on a massive transformation. Funny how the airlines w/ the most RJ's lose the biggest coin. Those w/ the least are borderline breakeven or profitable. On behalf on NWA, we can only hope they keep the 70 seater away from the contractors. Perhaps one day we look back at this nightmare and laugh......but I doubt it.

 

[wrigley23]

Funny how LCC's provide better service/comfortability than DAL. Buy a ticket on DAL and chances are you'll end up on some cramped RJ. Especially when connecting through DFW. SLC and CVG aren't much better. Flying on SWA is an upgrade from DAL RJ's. Jetblue or Airtran is like flying w/ the rich. LCC Airtran can't justify RJ's and they're spanking DAL in ATL. Now the Canadian gov't will subsidize Bombardier/CMR to add more of these parasites. My have things changed. I'm sorry, but I think DAL will be forced out of DFW while they embark on a massive transformation. Funny how the airlines w/ the most RJ's lose the biggest coin. Those w/ the least are borderline breakeven or profitable. On behalf on NWA, we can only hope they keep the 70 seater away from the contractors. Perhaps one day we look back at this nightmare and laugh......but I doubt it.

I've flown a lot in the past 3 years as a passenger all over the country and I'll take an RJ seat over a coach seat anyday especially on the legacy carriers. First of all, no chance of a middle seat, which I dread, and second, RJs are usually much faster to deplane if you have a close connection (try making a 30 minute connection when you're in row 43 on a 767). Southwest is a nightmare with the open seating, I really don't want to get to the airport 4 hours ahead of time to get the first boarding zone). I haven't flown on Jet Blue yet, so I can't judge, but I have tried ATA and a 73 or a 75 is the same no matter where you go. Airtran; I was unimpressed with the old 9s, but it could be different with the 717s.

The absolute worst is being on a 777 or 747 in the middle section and sitting in the middle seat of five. ugh.

However, if you're flying standby and get bumped up to the front, you'll hear no complaining from me.

Cheers

 

[InclusiveScope]

Funny how the airlines w/ the most RJ's lose the biggest coin. Those w/ the least are borderline breakeven or profitable.

Let's see drag, of the legacy carriers, DAL and CAL had the most RJs. United and USAirways had the least. I wouldn't consider United and USAirways as "borderline breakeven or profitable".

 

[michael707767]

Let's see drag, of the legacy carriers, DAL and CAL had the most RJs. United and USAirways had the least. I wouldn't consider United and USAirways as "borderline breakeven or profitable".

Hmm, didn't USAirways turn a profit last quarter? Even with one time items, I would say that makes them borderline breakeven/profitable.

Drag has a valid point though. If the RJ is so great from a business point of view, Delta should be doing the best followed by CAL, but thats not the case is it?

 

[MedFlyer]

Hmm, didn't USAirways turn a profit last quarter? Even with one time items, I would say that makes them borderline breakeven/profitable.

And how many RJ's did USAirways take delivery of last quarter? Quite a few. Using your logic, I could say the RJ's are why U is becoming profitable.

Drag has a valid point though. If the RJ is so great from a business point of view, Delta should be doing the best followed by CAL, but thats not the case is it?

DAL actually was doing the best for quite a while after 9/11. Problem is all those other carriers have lowered their mainline costs and DAL has not. If DAL had its costs in-line, it would be doing better than AMR, UAL or U.

 

[michael707767]

And how many RJ's did USAirways take delivery of last quarter? Quite a few. Using your logic, I could say the RJ's are why U is becoming profitable.



DAL actually was doing the best for quite a while after 9/11. Problem is all those other carriers have lowered their mainline costs and DAL has not. If DAL had its costs in-line, it would be doing better than AMR, UAL or U.

U is doing better because they got their costs down. I think the RJs will actually work against them. They will not be able to compete with SW and JB with RJs. I think RJs can and do work pretty well for Delta, but IMHO, they will not help U.

 

[drag]

Perhaps I'm wrong about the RJ issue. I'm sure FLYI will prove the viability of the RJ. Given their low employee costs, I bet they'll turn some huge profits. How many of you have bought some stock? It's real cheap so now's your chance. Granted, Midway failed but that's because their costs were too high.

 

[drag]

Let's see drag, of the legacy carriers, DAL and CAL had the most RJs. United and USAirways had the least. I wouldn't consider United and USAirways as "borderline breakeven or profitable".

I wouldn't consider DAL and CAL very healthy. Given the fact that CAL has one of the lowest contracts due to its labor unions being busted many years ago, one might think they should be very profitable. Lots of RJs, low labor contracts and still red. DAL had a real impressive 2nd quarter. Like I said, airlines w/ large RJ contracts lose money. Lots of it.

 

[skiddriver]

DDpaysoff,

... There are 105 seats on a 737-200...

Bye Bye--General Lee

First off, there are 100 seats on a 200 as Delta flies them (8 up front and 92 in the back) as I well know since I've commuted on them from MSY-CVG and back for two years. You could also do a check on travelnet and look for the number of total seats if you don't feel like taking my word for it.

The idea that somehow the 732 is making Delta money while the RJ are losing it is laughable. A 50 seat RJ burns a little over 3000# an hour and takes 2 pilots and 1 F/A at regional rates. The burn rate on a 70 is the same (yes, it's the same as a 50) and the only additional cost is one more regional F/A, and a slightly higher pay rate for the pilots (11% for Comair).

For those 30 extra seats in the 732 (8 admittedly are first class and would sell for a premium if they weren't filled with FF upgrades and non-revs - which they usually are), you pay for double the fuel (6000+ #/hr - I've checked it every time I jumpseated back and forth), two pilots and three F/As at mainline rates. Your costs are more than doubled for an additional 30 seats over the 70 seater. You do the math.

The in-house competitor to the RJ is the 732, not the 757/767/MD88. The RJ beats it in every category except relative comfort. The RJ seats have the same pitch and width as the 732, but insufficient padding in my estimation. Coach in a 732 is no picnic however. I flew my last commute home yesterday in seat 10F (bulkhead) and despite the extra leg room and it was crowded and uncomfortable.

And yes I said last commute. I've taken an aviation management job at a major oil company in New Orleans and have stepped off the treadmill. The fact that I'll be starting at more than the General gets paid is nice, but being 10 minutes from home and having evenings and holidays off is better. I'll stick my head in occasionally to see if you guys ever make up.

General, I appreciate your arguments, but you'd have more credibility if you wouldn't try to twist the facts to bolster your arguments. The CASM argument is a good example. The replacement aircraft for an RJ at Delta is a 732. Try comparing the RJ CASM against the 732 CASM. The result won't be pretty (for you anyway).

I'll see if I can't do something about those Jet-A prices. Everybody buy an SUV!

Adios!

 

[XRMEFLYER]

First off, there are 100 seats on a 200 as Delta flies them (8 up front and 92 in the back) as I well know since I've commuted on them from MSY-CVG and back for two years. You could also do a check on travelnet and look for the number of total seats if you don't feel like taking my word for it.

The idea that somehow the 732 is making Delta money while the RJ are losing it is laughable. A 50 seat RJ burns a little over 3000# an hour and takes 2 pilots and 1 F/A at regional rates. The burn rate on a 70 is the same (yes, it's the same as a 50) and the only additional cost is one more regional F/A, and a slightly higher pay rate for the pilots (11% for Comair).

For those 30 extra seats in the 732 (8 admittedly are first class and would sell for a premium if they weren't filled with FF upgrades and non-revs - which they usually are), you pay for double the fuel (6000+ #/hr - I've checked it every time I jumpseated back and forth), two pilots and three F/As at mainline rates. Your costs are more than doubled for an additional 30 seats over the 70 seater. You do the math.

The in-house competitor to the RJ is the 732, not the 757/767/MD88. The RJ beats it in every category except relative comfort. The RJ seats have the same pitch and width as the 732, but insufficient padding in my estimation. Coach in a 732 is no picnic however. I flew my last commute home yesterday in seat 10F (bulkhead) and despite the extra leg room and it was crowded and uncomfortable.

And yes I said last commute. I've taken an aviation management job at a major oil company in New Orleans and have stepped off the treadmill. The fact that I'll be starting at more than the General gets paid is nice, but being 10 minutes from home and having evenings and holidays off is better. I'll stick my head in occasionally to see if you guys ever make up.

General, I appreciate your arguments, but you'd have more credibility if you wouldn't try to twist the facts to bolster your arguments. The CASM argument is a good example. The replacement aircraft for an RJ at Delta is a 732. Try comparing the RJ CASM against the 732 CASM. The result won't be pretty (for you anyway).

I'll see if I can't do something about those Jet-A prices. Everybody buy an SUV!

Adios!

Buena Suerte Amigo!