DALPA DFW LEC comments on ASA/CMR

[ATR-DRIVR]

Sigh....Still waiting for the answer to this. WHO assigns what airplanes to which routes General? You keep insinuating that ASA\CMR are just arbritarily (sp?) just take over the 200 and 727 routes. Why? Does DALPA seem to believe this is the case, or for that matter most of the mainline pilots also?

 

[General Lee]

ATR-drivr,


You are right---we don't assign the planes to the specific routes--primarily because Fred Greed and Leo parked too many of our planes and ordered too many RJs---thinking that businessmen would rather have "frequency" rather than comfort on 3 hour flights. Now, we have too many RJs and did not plan for the onslaught of LCCs with more comfortable planes. We have moved our remaining mainline aircraft around---leaving holes in our old route structure that LCCs are now exploiting. Sometimes the only planes we have left to fight with are RJs---and that isn't good enough for many of our best customers. That isn't your fault or my fault--it is reality thanks to our last management team. Our new team is thinking of ways to solve this--with quicker turn times and rolling hubs---but it doesn't take into account that we actually need larger planes to bring in more people per plane to ensure our other planes are full---which would result in a better chance to profit.

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[ATR-DRIVR]

Right again boss, MANAGEMENT would be the key word! Sigh, I sure don't know what the answer is but I wonder if Virginia Ave has ANY idea either. Hey, why not call GG and tell him to get the MD-11's out of the desert and put them to work instead of costing 445,000 a month. Even if they only generated half of that, it's better than what they are doing now, zip. Work out something with World on the sims or farm the training out. Sheesh, I'll bet between the three pilot groups we could generate some cost saving ideas that have nothing to do with any labor groups, just the stupid decisions management makes each day. Wait, wait, that would mean we would have to get together and talk about it. I would guess the "no way in he11" poster are just lining up to type now!!!

 

[General Lee]

ATR-Drivr,


Well, we have farmed out all of the sim time--and we have made something like $1.5 million in the process. (even though we are losing $15,000 a day on each plane while sitting in the desert....) I went to recurrent a few months back and we had a lot of other airlines doing training in our sims---like World in the MD-11, Pace (Hooters Air) in the 737 and 757, and Transmeridian also in there. Then they lay off 54 ground instructors and replace everything with computer CDs---and now we have huge early retirements and not enough sims open or instructors.... What is my opinion on all of that? No comment.....

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[Dude]

"Hey Mav, do you remember the number to that truck driving school...Truck Masters, I think. I might need that."

 

[InclusiveScope]

ATR-drivr,
You are right---we don't assign the planes to the specific routes--primarily because Fred Greed and Leo parked too many of our planes and ordered too many RJs---thinking that businessmen would rather have "frequency" rather than comfort on 3 hour flights.
Bye Bye--General Lee

General,
I guess you haven't heard the term "time is money". The only advantages the legacy carriers have anymore is the number of destinations and the frequencies. Take away those two advantages and you might as well stick a fork in them. The RJs are an important part of these two remaining advantages.

 

[General Lee]

Inclusivescope,


I agree--time is money, and the big money is with the businessmen who book a day or so in advance and pay more. Guess what? They don't like RJs---especially on longer flights. If you pi$$ enough of them off--they will cause you to lower your fares to just fill seats---and we are left with what we have today: Full airplanes with not enough businessmen on them. If you don't think that a regular business traveller who likes to work while flying doesn't enjoy the RJ experience--then you haven't talked to many. I have. I also read a large Wall St. Journal Weekend article about the hatred of RJs by businessmen. Even Grinstein has realized this---saying it is unfair to our customers to trap them in an RJ for more than 2 hours. Now in my view--I don't mind flying on RJs--I have jumped up front a few times and I was very impressed. The technology on the CRJ and ERJ is great----better than many mainline planes. But, the passengers we HAVE TO IMPRESS are the guys that pay full fare at the last minute---and there are plenty like that out there. But, when they have to choose a 717 or a CRJ---a lot go for the 717 so they can work and retrieve items from the overhead bins..... Look at DFW---we have lost a lot of mainline flights--and now we may downsize some more----but wait--it is full of RJs (CR7s) and we will still downsize? Sounds like AA is doing a lot better. Even Airtran is moving in there... I guess the Dallas Ft Worth Metroplex doesn't have enough rich people or business people, right? ( I thought the DFW area had 20,000 millionaires?) If a businessman had to choose whether or not to fly a CR7(or CRJ) or an MD80 to OAK, ONT, SNA, DCA, JFK, PBI, FLL, DEN, PHX, TUS, ELP, RDU, MSY, etc---which would he choose? A possible first class upgrade or no bin space whatsoever? Which would you choose?

It is hard to fight me on this one Inclusive---Grinstein agrees with me.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[sweptback]

Hey General, the passenger that pays last minute full fare is disappearing. The last minute full fare as well is slowly coming down, for better or worse.

As for the "why would somebody pick a CR7 over a M80 debate" -- well, anybody in the DFW area that flies Delta does it for one of two reasons... either they have gobs of SkyMiles and flying on an RJ for 3 hours is worth it to them so one day they can go to Dublin, or because they got a good deal on the ticket and have no real airline allegiance. In either case, the airplane type doesn't even come into play.

The only complaint I hear routinely about the RJs is that the passenger has to walk outside and climb up the steps (especially in the hot DFW summers). We don't have the ramp space to have a contact gate for every RJ but that sure would be nice.

 

[surplus1]

General,

When are you going to move away from yesterday's thinking and enter the real world that we live in today?

The millionaires that you mention don't ride on RJs and don't ride on 757's either. Those folks ride on the corporate jet, the fractional jet or a charter.

For the rest of the folks, I'll grant you that the "walk-ups" might like more bin space, but it is not the #1 priority. What they really like best is an airplane that's going where they want to go, when they want to go; i.e., frquency. The fact is they get a lot more of that with an RJ than they do in a cattle car.

Now, IF they buy a first class ticket or IF they are able to "upgrade" to 1st for free, then they will get a bigger seat and more comfort. However, if they're stuck in the back in some middle seat (likely for walk ups) the difference in "comfort level" exists nowhere except in your mind. The seat pitch is the same and there is no more "work room". As for the bin space, that's mostly an illusion too, since most of the bins are jammed with WalMart packages or mementos of Mickey Mouse. Additionaly, sitting anywhere within 3 rows of Mama and four rug rats that aren't house broken is much like an adventure on Survivor.

If they can get past that "big airplane" nemesis, they next have to deal with a surley cabin crew that would require plastic surgery if it ever smiled at them (as opposed to a smart looking always happy hot thing on an RJ), and having to joust with 100+ lame brains all fighting to pee in the stand-up restroom at the same time. That's the "reality show" in the back end of a "big airplane".

When they eventually get to where they're going in some time frame other than the one they actually preferred, it will take another 30 minutes just to get off the thing, plus another 30 + to find the bag they carefully checked in the hope you could actually deliver it, only to discover when it is unpacked that some considerate handler "borrowed" all the important contents. It's a lot easier to just walk down a few steps of the RJ, grab your bag and leave the fighting to the masses.

The RJ's do have their disadvantages, but so do the mainliners. Perhaps they will be a little unhappy with the perception of being trapped in a small fuselage for 3 hours, but the truth is most flights are far less than that. Even when they are not, the 3-hour RJ segment begins and ends in no more that a total of 4 hours, including boarding and deplaneing and recovering your stuff. The same 3-hour segment takes at least 5 hours in the "big bird". The supposed "comfort level" just doesn't make up for it.

Like you said, time is money. Welcome to the 21st century but you won't make it with a 20th century product no matter how "big" it looks. When you offer service that the customer wants, at the time that he/she wants it, you'll win every time. Right now you're not doing much of either and the size of your airplane can't make up for it. Song is a good idea; the rest of you are singing off key.

PS. I have a question for ya. How many times do you thing GG has ever gone anywhere on an RJ?

Inclusivescope,

I agree--time is money, and the big money is with the businessmen who book a day or so in advance and pay more. Guess what? They don't like RJs---especially on longer flights. If you pi$$ enough of them off--they will cause you to lower your fares to just fill seats---and we are left with what we have today: Full airplanes with not enough businessmen on them. If you don't think that a regular business traveller who likes to work while flying doesn't enjoy the RJ experience--then you haven't talked to many. I have. I also read a large Wall St. Journal Weekend article about the hatred of RJs by businessmen. Even Grinstein has realized this---saying it is unfair to our customers to trap them in an RJ for more than 2 hours. Now in my view--I don't mind flying on RJs--I have jumped up front a few times and I was very impressed. The technology on the CRJ and ERJ is great----better than many mainline planes. But, the passengers we HAVE TO IMPRESS are the guys that pay full fare at the last minute---and there are plenty like that out there. But, when they have to choose a 717 or a CRJ---a lot go for the 717 so they can work and retrieve items from the overhead bins..... Look at DFW---we have lost a lot of mainline flights--and now we may downsize some more----but wait--it is full of RJs (CR7s) and we will still downsize? Sounds like AA is doing a lot better. Even Airtran is moving in there... I guess the Dallas Ft Worth Metroplex doesn't have enough rich people or business people, right? ( I thought the DFW area had 20,000 millionaires?) If a businessman had to choose whether or not to fly a CR7(or CRJ) or an MD80 to OAK, ONT, SNA, DCA, JFK, PBI, FLL, DEN, PHX, TUS, ELP, RDU, MSY, etc---which would he choose? A possible first class upgrade or no bin space whatsoever? Which would you choose?

It is hard to fight me on this one Inclusive---Grinstein agrees with me.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[Tim47SIP]

General

I agree--time is money, and the big money is with the businessmen who book a day or so in advance and pay more. Guess what? They don't like RJs---especially on longer flights. If you pi$$ enough of them off--they will cause you to lower your fares to just fill seats---and we are left with what we have today: Full airplanes with not enough businessmen on them.

Gen, I hear what you are saying, but the truth is that there arent as many as there used to be. In addition, many business travelers are travelling only because the prices are right. The far and few between high roller's will schedule first class. I do agree we are pissing off the travelers that like to upgrade to first, but as you say, they can vote with there feet. I only see loads increasing, not decreasing, so I think most of these pax know what they are getting into. I do agree however, that we should try to provide the same or better equipement in markets that we have direct competion in. Like with Airtran, we should compete with mainline aircraft to provide those first class seats when FEASIBLE. Good luck with the negotiations.