Dalpa Concession package

[wms]

With DAL's commitment to reduce aircraft types to three, I don't see the E-jet coming.

 

[surplus1]

Flowback was in the category of Jumpseat. I don't know what that means.

I don't think that's a cause for concern. In Delta parlance it means "unlimited jumpseat". Jumpseaters can "flow" to the back of the airplane into empty seats.

I do like the Brand Scope bullet, so far.

Why do you like this? Do you have any true idea of what "brand scope" really means in application or do you just like the flavor of ALPA Kool Aid?

 

[General Lee]

WMS,


What are the three types? 737 (600,700,800) family, 757/767 (including 764), and 777? I think there would be a 100 seater in there---maybe that 736.


Surplus1,

Come on buddy. We can see you don't like ALPA. If you guys think you are being $crewed, maybe you need new representation. ALPA has had its hands full as of late. It will all be interesting....

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[InclusiveScope]

WMS,
If you guys think you are being $crewed, maybe you need new representation. ALPA has had its hands full as of late. It will all be interesting....

Bye Bye--General Lee

General,
We aren't going anywhere. ALPA belongs to us as much as it belongs to you. If you have a problem with that then don't let the door hit you in the A$$ on the way out. ALPA does not belong to the mainline pilots.

 

[surplus1]

Surplus1,

Come on buddy. We can see you don't like ALPA. If you guys think you are being $crewed, maybe you need new representation. ALPA has had its hands full as of late. It will all be interesting....

You're wrong General, I love ALPA. I just don't plan on holding my ankles for DW or for you, with or without the lube.

Don't need "new" representation, just need representation. Gonna get it too. That bother you? Deal with it. You wan't to leave ... be my guest; we're staying.

Yep, it will all be interesting.

 

[flaps30]

This is far from over

This won't be over until the BK lawyers are at the courthouse steps, and DALPA decides to take their 35%+ pay cut + bennies. The Union has no power to bargin; none, zip, zilch. Way too much to lose in BK for the senior guys.

100 seat a/c: Delta, Comair or ASA will never touch one.

 

[spanky2]

It is easy to pick out the guys rejected by / not qualified for the big leagues / members of / supporters of the RJDC (aka, "really just dorks coalition / we want something for nothing). Has nothing to do with ALPA, although that is the RJDC story and they are sticking to it.

 

[General Lee]

Surplus1,


Always go for the lube.


Inclusivescope,

If you were in civil court and you didn't like your lawyers, I bet you would change them. Sure. Now, if you don't like where ALPA is going on certain issues--then go to the Teamsters or make your own union. It just makes sense. Delta and Dalpa are currently working on a agreement between them, and it may have some overlap---but Malone and Grinstein will be signing on the dotted line. When it is all over, then you guys can negotiate for the leftovers.
Or, you guys can come in right now and say you will give up 30% (why...?)---and maybe that would ellieviate some of the cash burden from us--and I bet we would say yes to you guys getting more 70 seaters! Sure! Go for it if you want...????


Flaps30,

Sure we have a bit of leverage---the management people don't really want to go to Chap 11 either---that is a fact. They will if they have to, but they don't want to.

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[lowecur]

Boeing has agreed to delay delivery of 738's and 777's for a few more years. This will help the balance sheet by $1B in the next few years. Also, the options have been cancelled. This is a good trade off.

This in my opinion does not mean DL will not order the E-series. The competitive cost savings would far out weigh the capital expenditure. Besides, ERJ would back load the payments for a large deal.

http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/040722/delta_boeing_1.html

 

[General Lee]

Lowecur,

Nobody likes to see new airplanes deferred, but I also think it was a smart move. It gives us more room to breathe over the next couple years. Could there be a deal with new E-jets? Only if the deal was like the Bombardier deals---almost "giving them away." It could happen. Also, there are rumors abound that after a pay cut deal is announced, that Delta will purchase some cheap AA 757s (ex TWA) that are sitting in the desert (due to the fact that they have Pratt engines---not Rolls like AA usually has)--and that we would use them to replace some Domestic 767-300ERs that would be thrown into the INTL arena--where there are less LCCs. The number I heard was 10. I don't know if that is completely true or not---but it might happen.....

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[InclusiveScope]

Inclusivescope,

If you were in civil court and you didn't like your lawyers, I bet you would change them. Sure. Now, if you don't like where ALPA is going on certain issues--then go to the Teamsters or make your own union. It just makes sense. Delta and Dalpa are currently working on a agreement between them, and it may have some overlap---but Malone and Grinstein will be signing on the dotted line. When it is all over, then you guys can negotiate for the leftovers.
Or, you guys can come in right now and say you will give up 30% (why...?)---and maybe that would ellieviate some of the cash burden from us--and I bet we would say yes to you guys getting more 70 seaters! Sure! Go for it if you want...????

Bye Bye--General Lee

General,
We aren't leaving ALPA. We have far more leverage by staying in ALPA. If we leave ALPA, then we will be like Eagle. The APA does not have a DFR issue with Eagle. They are free to screw the Eagle pilots because they are a separate union. You are not free to screw the ASA and CMR pilots due to that pesky little DFR issue. If you want to leave, feel free. We are going to stay in this dysfunctional family. Think of us as "Gypsies in the Palace".

 

[wms]

Why do you like this? Do you have any true idea of what "brand scope" really means in application or do you just like the flavor of ALPA Kool Aid?

I'm in no one's kool aid, especially the RJDCs. There is a bigger threat from out-sourcing than from DALPA. If the flying stays under the DAL umbrella it's better for the DCI/DAL pilots. Better to have expansion where we want to go than where we don't want to stay, unless you want a career as a commuter pilot.

PS I do like that concept of flow back though.

 

[surplus1]

There is a bigger threat from out-sourcing than from DALPA. If the flying stays under the DAL umbrella it's better for the DCI/DAL pilots. Better to have expansion where we want to go than where we don't want to stay, unless you want a career as a commuter pilot.

Well, I don't know where you work so I don't know what you consider to be outsourcing or who you feel is being outsourced. Apparently you have a definition of "brand scope". Perhaps if you'd care to share it. Once I know what it is, I can voice my opinion as to whether I like it or I don't. Is "brand scope" going to stop outsoucing or is it just going to give "DALPA" more control over ASA and CMR?

Personally I don't worry much about being a commuter pilot, I live in my domicile. If for some rason I wound up at the big D, then I would be forced to commute as living in Atlanta is not my cup of tea.

By the way, where is it that you want to go and who is "we"?

 

[~~~^~~~]

It is easy to pick out the guys rejected by / not qualified for the big leagues / members of / supporters of the RJDC (aka, "really just dorks coalition / we want something for nothing). Has nothing to do with ALPA, although that is the RJDC story and they are sticking to it.

And pretty easy to identify those hired based on connections to Plato, who had no objective test of their flying skills during the interview process. Most of the mainline guys are good folks with integrity and good flying skills. But, no process of weeding out the insecure jerks is perfect, is it Spanky?

 

[spanky2]

Fins,

How are you doing? How are all your new jets?

You and I have had this discussion before. I have never met Plato but will try to meet him if I ever go back to VA Ave and see if he will agree to talk to you about hiring criteria.

My question to you...why are you working at DCI and not a major carrier? If it is what you always wanted, I am happy for you.

Look in the mirror, pal. You may see some green color on your thin skin.

Fly safe.

 

[Vortilon]

Surplus,

If you got hired at the "big D" I'm sure you could again find yourself based in CVG...unless of course its all DCI-flying only by that time.

 

[DL_Infidel]

And pretty easy to identify those hired based on connections to Plato, who had no objective test of their flying skills during the interview process. Most of the mainline guys are good folks with integrity and good flying skills. But, no process of weeding out the insecure jerks is perfect, is it Spanky?

I knew guys with stronger ties to Plato than myself who didn't get hired. Yes, knowing him helped secure the interview, but not the job. Also, no airline has a process for weeding out "jerks", that is obvious.


DL_Infidel
Former J32 driver who needed no "objective test" of my flying skills.

 

[Vortilon]

Fins,

Most major interviews are about whether the person will be a healthy, good, long-term employee that you'd enjoy flying a month with. Its pretty easy to determine the applicant's flying abilities based on their past experience and work history by the time they are looked at by a major.

Other portions of the Delta interview are highly technical, however, and make sure you are mentally up to task. The training & probationary processes further weed out people whose skills (both flying and interpersonal) are not there. Although no selection process is perfect, generally the majors have a larger pool of known quantities to choose from and get good results.

 

[~~~^~~~]

Most major interviews are about whether the person will be a healthy, good, long-term employee that you'd enjoy flying a month with. The training & probationary processes further weed out people whose skills (both flying and interpersonal) are not there. Although no selection process is perfect, generally the majors have a larger pool of known quantities to choose from and get good results.

We agree.

I was just having fun with Spanky, who must have been on furlough during his probationary year. Bigotry, like the attitude he exemplified in his post, has a lot to do with why the union is in the mess it is in.

The issue remains - ALPA should not be separating its pilots into factions who bid against eachother for flying. The only justification I ever heard from Bill Buergey for his divisive stand on the DCI PID was that he felt it was beneath military pilots to have to begin their civillian careers on an E120, or RJ. He also was heard around the 2000 BOD meeting making jokes out of the lack of qualifications of the DCI pilots.

Today you see the harm that has resulted from what was then seen as "harmless."

 

[Vortilon]

Fins,

Yeah I don't quite get Buergy's attitude on that either. I know its a change from what ex-military guys have come to expect from an airline career but I think it the entry level job was an E120 @ Delta you'd still get the same type of people applying as they used to. People just don't like change.

There would be such a nice possible career track of starting as a Brakillia FO to moving through the ranks up to a 777 Captain you'd still get 3000+hr new hires and plenty of ex-military guys. As far as pay goes after all these crazy concessions the majors & "regionals" and LCCs will pay about the same for the first couple years.

Who knows.