Dalpa Concerned

[~~~^~~~]

Vortilon :

I would hope you are right, but indications are otherwise.

The Delta MEC is picking their words very carefully and new words like "constituencies" and "stakeholders" cover negotiatings involving employees that are not represented by the Delta MEC, yet are having their jobs negotiated by the Pilots' union.

With the ongoing litigation, the Delta MEC is not going to come right out and say that "we will take their jobs and burn them to the ground." Instead I think that once a back room deal is made it will be forced on the ASA and Comair MEC's as "take it, or the airplanes will be diverted to a new certificate." Then ALPA's defense will be that the ASA and Comair MECs actually voted for it.

You might find this hard to believe, but I want to see the Delta pilots recalled and the company succeed. But, the best way to accomplish this is to end ALPA apartied - instead it appears ALPA's negotiations are sticking to the same formulas that failed elsewhere in the industry.

 

[80drvr]

I read the article and thought it was good. Malone isn't biting on the UAL or AA type productivity, and he will probably add a percent or two to the newly proposed pay cut instead of giving up as many work rules, which are harder to get back. He ISN'T rolling over and giving up jobs--he also stated that UAL and AA have had the highest "sick call" rate ever.

That is correct--AA's sick rate nearly doubled after the concessions! And the ivy leage bean counters are spending all sorts of effort trying to figure it out. Too funny.

 

[Vortilon]

Fins,

I think the Comair MEC would be issuing similar statements if they were the only ones being singled out for concessions by the company...its human nature. If Comair management was saying "only Comair pilots can save the company", you'd find it an equally laughable and non-comprehensive game plan. In the end, Dalpa can't negotiate for anyone besides the pilots, and management will decide how they want to proceed with other employee groups. Maybe they'll come for cuts, maybe they won't...none of us knows.

Personally at a MINIMUM I'd like to see the wholly-owned DCI carriers merged. It will be interesting to see if GG's corporate game plan addresses the inefficiencies of operating 2 identical companies. I ran into a Comair mechanic that was flown out to Atlanta to work on a CRJ. Apparently ASA mechanics aren't allowed to work on them. I know this is oversimplified and management probably fears allowing labor a larger unfied voice but if they are seriously trying to make Delta a lean-mean brand that will do well even during the tough times, they've got to look at this. (sorry for the run-on sentence)

Ideally, it'd be great to have DCI & DAL merged....I think there could be many efficiencies gained there as well and keep all DL flying under one roof. And I'm not just saying that because I'm a bottom feeder at DAL. If it were up to me I'd then ditch DCI Acadamy & AirElite and focus on the core business of being an airline. We could still license the name to the flight school. The charter company could exist on its own...it doesn't really provide much value to the Delta "brand" anyway.

But the only questions the CEOs let me answer these days is "how long until we get there, what's the weather like, and where is the toilet?"

 

[JohnDoe]

spinproof:
"Doeboy the craps been flowing on us for years funny how you guys puke in your plate and want to pass it on....."here we're just trying to help you poor guys out".....Please!!!!

....now you want my support for your plight...take another hit on that "scope" pipe!!! Quit trying to blame your problems on everyone else. Quit sacrificing others for your well being!....then maybe we can be friends....maybe...otherwise F.O."



Doeboy??? What are you, in highschool?? Guess I was just shown the mental capacity I am dealing with (rather than make an intelligent response, use insults.....).

No, I do not want your support. I have no dog in the Delta/DCI fight that goes on here. Never did, never will.

And no, I am not blaming my problems on anybody (you got that from where??). I just find it entirely laughable that people like you enjoy the gutting of mainline contracts, yet ignorantly believe it won't eventually affect you. It is going to affect us all in the end.

And finally, if the roles were reversed and you were at mainline, you would be doing the EXACT same thing to protect your own career, so get off your high horse. You can deny it all you want, but everybody on this forum knows its the truth. Its 10's of thousands of years worth of human nature at work.

 

[CF34-3B1]

Fins,

Personally at a MINIMUM I'd like to see the wholly-owned DCI carriers merged. It will be interesting to see if GG's corporate game plan addresses the inefficiencies of operating 2 identical companies. I ran into a Comair mechanic that was flown out to Atlanta to work on a CRJ. Apparently ASA mechanics aren't allowed to work on them. I know this is oversimplified and management probably fears allowing labor a larger unfied voice but if they are seriously trying to make Delta a lean-mean brand that will do well even during the tough times, they've got to look at this. (sorry for the run-on sentence)QUOTE]


The MX aspects are just the tip of the iceberg. 2 VPs of toilet paper, 2 parts inventories, 2 of everything, plus my personal favorite, dozens of CMR crews at the ATL Westin, costing who knows how many hundreds of thousands in hotel fees alone, in the name of strike proofing ATL.

We obviously don't have the big picture.

 

[spinproof]

"Doebrain"

Yeah I can see you don't have a dog in this fight...I can also see you don't have a clue as to the true subject being discussed. Resulting to complaining about my assumed grade level of communication.

The gist of this is DALPA's criptic message as to their "wages" will in play when "all of DCI" is in play! They, on the (DCI) other hand, are currently giving! Not to mention PROFITTABLE !!!

My retort is based on the fact this would not be a factor(furloughs,aircraft flown, et al)if DALPA had a little forsight and stappled ASA and COMAIR. Instead of relying on a "scope clause" to control that segment of flying they(DALPA) wish to protect.

To continue to ignore the problem(DALPA) while not addressing the real problem(Whipsawing) is playing right into managments hands.

Now "bone up" a little before you give your opinion or stay on the porch!

 

[JohnDoe]

I rest my case....lol

 

[spinproof]

...yeah mine too Dhead!!

 

[surplus1]

Fins,

ALPA has polled the membership a couple of times in recent months as to what our collective concerns are, including issues important to furloughees. There has been NO mention of J4J or anything even close to that. There are no rumors to that effect either. Again, I think the collective DCI Consipiracy theorists are being paranoid right now. Hard not to be, I understand, but I think its unfounded.

The negotiating committee sends us updates on what they are working on and there's no mention of anything like that.

Vortilon,

I believe you. The only problem is you believe them. ALPA speaks with forked tongue.

It's not good to be parnoid when you think they're out to get you. It is wise to be paranoid when you know they are.

 

[General Lee]

Surplus1,


Come on now. Look my frined, we are the ones who have suffered greatly over the last three years---while you and DCI have enjoyed record growth and upgrades. You have. We have had terrible furloughs--for both pilots and stews---and now we are renegotiating and restructuring. Dalpa is trying to do the best they can with this nightmare. We still have 1020 pilots furloughed, and we would like to get them back. I don't think that is too much to ask for, right? But, do they all have to go to the right seat of your airplane? Your airplanes effectively replaced our airplanes that we parked--and now with the pax back, we really need them back(seats). But, I doubt we will be seeing any 727s and L1011s or MD11s back any time soon. So, any new airplanes will help bring back those unfortunate furloughed pilots that deserve to come back after a long 3 year break. That is the right thing to do---and I think you know it. You seem like a sensible guy, and you can see that we need to bring back these people that have had a terrible last three years. I doubt Dalpa and the MEC will be going after your current airplanes---but future ones would help those 1020 come back and fly for a living again.

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[~~~^~~~]

General:

Have you forgotten that your MEC is responsible for this alter ego mess?

Its hard to feel too sorry for the Delta pilots when they got exactly what they negotiated for.

~~~^~~~

 

[DenverDude2002]

BRING BACK THE L1011 TRISTAR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

(sorry couldnt resist )

But in all seriousness Id love to see Delta bring back a few 727s or L1011s, I miss seeing those old classics a lot. And most of my widebody pax time was on the L1011

 

[General Lee]

Denverdude,

From what I have heard and seen (many many L1011 jumpseats from MCO to ATL a few years ago)--the L1011 was a joy to fly. That would be great, but I doubt it. Now the 727 on the other hand, was a pain in the a$$. I was an FE on it for 8 months, and I couldn't stand it. I swore that I would get off it after day 1 of the sims, and it took me 8 months to get to MCO, where I had to stay for another year. It wasn't as bad.


Fins,

Come on now, I know you don't like our MEC, but that doesn't change the fact that we have many people on the street that would like to come back. Maybe our scope policy was flawed, and maybe we should have tried to keep the CRJs on our side of the flying, and maybe we could have tried to staple you guys way back when...... What we are left with is a bunch of people that would like to get back into the cockpit.

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[~~~^~~~]

Fins,

Come on now, I know you don't like our MEC, but that doesn't change the fact that we have many people on the street that would like to come back. Maybe our scope policy was flawed, and maybe we should have tried to keep the CRJs on our side of the flying, and maybe we could have tried to staple you guys way back when...... What we are left with is a bunch of people that would like to get back into the cockpit.

Bye Bye--General Lee

So, rather than try to fix the failed scope policy, your MEC continues down the same road, already paved with ALPA failures at US Air? The wrong course, is still the wrong course.

Then, there is the Duty of Fair Representation issue. ALPA is getting sued because it locked out the ASA and Comair pilots in the C2K contract while moving scope from 105 seats to 50 seats. Now why the Court is deciding the first DFR suit, the Delta MEC makes a move to capture the re-defined "Connection" flying, while the ASA and Comair MECs are still locked out.

So the MEC is repeating the conduct that the RJDC has accused them of - right under the watchful eye of the Court. What are they thinking?

~~~^~~~

 

[Ganja60Heavy]

General Lee and all you Dalpa guys....lissen up....

YOU BLEW IT!

Your gamble (scope, no staple) failed. Period.

Now face the consequences.

If I go to Vegas and put $250,000 on one roulette spin and LOSE, do I then go to the casino manager and say something like "oh, comon, give me my money back!"

You LOST the bet.

And cut the "I care about the 1020 guys on the street" bullcrap. You care about YOU. Quit this politicking $hit. Makes us all sick. "The right thing to do" my EYE!

Funny how, when it suits you, this argument is about RIGHT vs WRONG

...and other times, you see it as NEGOTIATING regardless of right vs wrong.

Show some integrity. Jeez!

You haven't fooled me, even though you are seemingly logical and well-spoken.